House Rules?

[Fox1]

I've found that HERO doesn't require much in the way of house rules. Or rather much compared to most rpgs I've read. The core mechanics are good one and things generally work.

 

There are however a few exceptions and as a result I have a fair number of rules and/or style elements that I keep track of for my players on a website.

 

I was wondering if this is uncommon, or if it's something everyone does. What house rules do you use and what are they?

[RDU Neil]

Re: House Rules?

 

I've found that HERO doesn't require much in the way of house rules. Or rather much compared to most rpgs I've read. The core mechanics are good one and things generally work.

 

There are however a few exceptions and as a result I have a fair number of rules and/or style elements that I keep track of for my players on a website.

 

I was wondering if this is uncommon, or if it's something everyone does. What house rules do you use and what are they?

 

Welcome to the boards. You'll find that the question of House Rules... should folks choose to comment, will open a massive flood gate of ideas.

 

I have some very major house rules that have developed over 24 years of playing Champions/Hero. For example, I don't use the Speed Chart at all, but have an initiative system.

 

Most house rules are either genre specfic... or they just fit a style of play suited to a certain group of gamers. Do a Search on House Rules... I bet you'll find more than you really want to know!

[atlascott]

Re: House Rules?

 

Since the RPG and math skill level vary in my group, in Chmpions, we usually buy reduced END or enough reserve END so that tracking it is a non-issue. I don't feel that it adds much to the game, anyway--you can buy charges to simulate a power that can only be used a few times per day, per hours, whatever.

 

I also discourage Killing Attacks, which really unbalance the game, imo (for 4 color supers).

 

Other than that, I agree--HERO doesnt really require much in the way of house rules--and thge fact is, since it is a toolkit, Steve suggests variations on the basic rules to fit your needs, anyway, so you cant even really call much a 'house rule' over a basic option.

 

A friend of mine is considering putting together an optional damage system for firearms based on statistical firearm data--essentially, since area of body struck accounts for wound outcome more than caiber (with the type of round being a close second--standard, jacketed, armor-piercing being a close--along with energy (m x v))--it sounds interesting, buy may be more work than its worth. It also might be good for an untra-realistic game, but not for cinematic play.

[Blue]

Re: House Rules?

 

There used to be a rather lengthy "House Rules" thread.... probably about 2 years ago here.

 

Personally, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that there's no automatic breakout roll for mind control in my game. You can try to break out on your turn per usual, but it's too hard to ever maintain any control (IMO) with the extra roll.

 

Oh, and I allow people to move after they attack (if they have the action left). Hasn't hurt anything so far.

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

A friend of mine is considering putting together an optional damage system for firearms based on statistical firearm data

 

My own house rules have an extensive section on firearms, although it's not so much a House Rule as a different way of building them then the HERO standard.

 

Nothing on shot placement. I thought the result there would be rather unbalancing and too luck dependent.

 

 

If your friend is interested he can check it out at for ideas:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/Hero/

 

 

My other major change is in STR lift values. I typically run Marvel inspired games and the standard lift values in HERO are too high for that IMO.

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: House Rules?I have only two house rules. Pulling a Punch in a superheroic campaign imposes a flat -1 OCV penalty (instead of the -1 OCV / 3 DC). Basically, to encourage strong characters to act like heroes and try to avoid injuring people.The second is that the standard STUN multiplier for a KA is 1D6 - 2, rather than 1D6 - 1. An attempt to balance the effectiveness of KAs vs. normal attacks. (And please - let's not start that thread again!)

[Koshka]

Re: House Rules?

 

If two characters have the same DEX and are going on the same phase, I use their SPD as a tie-breaker. If they're same DEX and SPD, then I worry about rolling off. (Unless both are PCs, in which case I tell them to settle it themselves.)

[Mike W]

Re: House Rules?

 

I have a small handful of "house rules":

 

First, as I recently mentioned on another thread, no x2 STUN on unconcious characters.

 

Second, no penalties for "pulling your punch" in any form.

 

The reason for these two rules is because I want players to act heroically - that means they shouldn't be putting every other bad guy in a coma, just to make sure he doesn't get up(especially when a lot of guys could justify the extra hit), nor should they take a penalty for trying to do the right thing and not hurt a normal. Doesn't mean they succeed, but they shouldn't take a penalty for trying, just like they don't get points for the 0 point "reluctant to kill" disad that most supers have to take.

 

Third, I use the old haymaker rules(x1.5 damage). This is because we don't have huge power levels and also because I feel the penalties for trying a haymaker are too stiff for a mere +4D6 benefit(same as an offensive martial strike).

 

Fourth, I tend to use the old Flash rules, Flash is per phase not per segment.

 

That's about it really. The rest falls in the purvey of "optional" rules, such as not giving people recs below -10 or so(roughly, if they need more than one REC to get up, they don't get up). Of course, agents never get up.

[Seenar]

Re: House Rules?

 

Here are mine.

 

http://www.seenar.com/House%20Rules.htm

 

I figure, it is my game, my rules.

 

I am thinking of adding one that makes overall skill levels cost more.

[lemming]

Re: House Rules?

 

Some of us have House Rules that are really old Edition rules. -1/3" for instance.

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

Some of us have House Rules that are really old Edition rules. -1/3" for instance.

 

 

I miss the old -1/3" rule in some ways myself. It was actually more representive in its interaction with RMod skill levels of how such things work in real life.

 

The new ones are designed to work well with the Growth/Shrinking powers and the idea of map scaling that appear in their old mecha supplement. Interesting that the map scaling idea disappeared in 5th edition (unless it shows up in Star Hero, I haven't bought that book).

 

I've often toy with the idea of going back to that method but haven't.

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

Second, no penalties for "pulling your punch" in any form.

 

This one is very common, so common in fact that I forgot that it was a house rule.

[Dust Raven]

Re: House Rules?

 

If your friend is interested he can check it out at for ideas:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/Hero/

 

 

My other major change is in STR lift values. I typically run Marvel inspired games and the standard lift values in HERO are too high for that IMO.

 

Hey, I know that site! Welcome to the CoH! I have to say I completely disagree with your ideas about firearms in the Hero System, but you did your homework and the rules you have are solid. Good work.

 

Unfortunately, my new site isn't done yet, but I have the House Rules section done. http://geocities.com/t_l_o_3_t/houserules.htm

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

Third' date=' I use the old haymaker rules(x1.5 damage). This is because we don't have huge power levels and also because I feel the penalties for trying a haymaker are too stiff for a mere +4D6 benefit(same as an offensive martial strike).[/quote']

 

You do have something of point:

 

Extra Segment: (-1/2)

DCV -5: This is roughly equal to 1/2 DCV Concentration for the typical HERO (all depending upon the campaign of course) (-1/4)

 

With -3/4 in limits one can say that 1.5 damage is actually about right.

 

Besides (as a early exchange I had with one of the old authors back during the first fantasy hero playtest went), bricks often do huge damage and effect with their windups in the comics. So it's a genre thing too.

 

 

 

On the other side...

 

The +4d6 Haymaker rule represents an attack that has 16x the energy in it (doubling for each extra die). At 1.5 damage that ratio is kept with a strength of 40.

 

Move up and down from there and the ratio changes vastly. with a STR of 50 you're talking 1024x the energy!

 

So I imagine the new rule was more for scale consistency.

 

Also STR already does a great many things for free (you have 10 points for 'free', you can grab and lift stuff, it adds Stun, etc) and one can certainly claim that an additional 50% damage is just too much on top of everything else- you haven't payed for it.

 

 

So I can understand going either way. I've chosen to go with the new 4d6 rule myself.

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

Hey' date=' I know that site! Welcome to the CoH! [/quote']

 

I'm not offical yet that I know off...

 

But thanks for the welcome anyway!

 

 

I have to say I completely disagree with your ideas about firearms in the Hero System, but you did your homework and the rules you have are solid. Good work.

 

Sniff. What's to disagree with?

 

I'm something of a gun freak. I originally did those rules for a Heroic level game I was running after I noticed how many times I needed to shoot an unarmored normal man in the street to take him out of the fight.

 

That game balance effect of increasing handgun damage isn't as bad as it looks however considering the changes I did on the Body damage side.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, my new site isn't done yet, but I have the House Rules section done. http://geocities.com/t_l_o_3_t/houserules.htm

 

The like the whole Mind Class thing you did. I may steal that for certain campaigns...

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

I also discourage Killing Attacks, which really unbalance the game, imo (for 4 color supers).

 

Do you use the 1d6-1 Stun roll or Hit Locations?

[zornwil]

Re: House Rules?

 

My house rules references show up in plenty of other places, won't get into it, but to address the general topic, I'd agree HERO can be run very easily and well with no house rules. I like to tinker and I like to suit things to taste and I am very opinionated about how things should work, so I do have tons of house rules. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect others' or that I "mind" playing "vanilla HERO".

[austenandrews]

Re: House Rules?

 

Many of my house rules weren't house rules until 5E.

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

Many of my house rules weren't house rules until 5E.

 

Such as?

[austenandrews]

Re: House Rules?

 

Shape Shift, Damage Shield, et al... I could cross-post to the "Can I get a list?" thread.

[zornwil]

Re: House Rules?

 

Many of my house rules weren't house rules until 5E.

Heh, that happened to me when 4th came out!

[Dust Raven]

Re: House Rules?

 

Many of my house rules weren't house rules until 5E.

The opposite happened to me... many of my house rules went away when 5th came out, as I didn't need them anymore. Granted, 5th did open up a few issues for me, but for the most part it solved a lot of the problems (or answered questions) I had with the rules.

[Dust Raven]

Re: House Rules?

 

I'm not offical yet that I know off...

 

But thanks for the welcome anyway!

I hadn't been to your site since I voted, and you seem to have the full banner up rather than the pending banner... coult be a mistake but I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

Sniff. What's to disagree with?

 

I'm something of a gun freak. I originally did those rules for a Heroic level game I was running after I noticed how many times I needed to shoot an unarmored normal man in the street to take him out of the fight.

 

That game balance effect of increasing handgun damage isn't as bad as it looks however considering the changes I did on the Body damage side.

 

It's nothing big, but your conversions stem from two assumptions I believe are inaccurate. First, you assume that BODY and damage mean the same thing in all cases for and against all targets. Second, you feel that (maybe because of your first assuption) the damage and effect of modern weapons don't properly simulate reality, or even cinematic reality.

 

I've found that if you use all of the option rules for attacking and damage (hit locations, woulding/disabling, bleeding, etc) the rules simulate reality, and gritty cinematic fiction, very closely.

 

Of course, if your system works for you, brilliant. I've read through it and there's nothing inherently wrong with it, so long as you're playing a Heroic level game with a high lethality rate (or PCs with 20+ BODY) it works just fine.

 

 

 

The like the whole Mind Class thing you did. I may steal that for certain campaigns...

 

Thanks, and steal all you want .

[Fox1]

Re: House Rules?

 

I hadn't been to your site since I voted' date=' and you seem to have the full banner up rather than the pending banner... coult be a mistake but I doubt it..[/quote']

 

I show as pending on my home webring site, and I'm not listed in the full list there yet.

 

No big deal, I'm sure it's coming. Or not depending upon the vote.

 

 

 

First' date=' you assume that BODY and damage mean the same thing in all cases for and against all targets. [/quote']

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. But you made me curious.

 

 

 

I've found that if you use all of the option rules for attacking and damage (hit locations, woulding/disabling, bleeding, etc) the rules simulate reality, and gritty cinematic fiction, very closely.

 

I already use the hit location rules, wounding/disabling, bleeding and all. Although I did change the concept that body damage is cumulative, it's not for killing attacks. I also removed the 1 point body loss from going to zero body and replaced it with bleeding to avoid doubling up on what is basically the same thing. (all noted on my website).

 

Without the firearm changes it didn't work out. In the real world and the cinematic fiction, most people drop from being shot once. I wanted that to happen.

 

1d6+1K (a typical HERO system damage for common handguns) in the chest only does 4.5 body on average and 13.5 stun- not enough to drop even a perfect average character (or even impair him except for being stunned a round) let alone a slightly up-stated goon.

 

In fact you'd have to roll a 6 on the die to drop the average guy. Far less than the movies I tend to watch (but I'm old, newer ones tend to have everyone hit by dozens of bullets- typically all in one 'attack'. Hong Kong action requires you buy auto-fire with pen knives).

 

Even the rulebook notes that firearms don't do anything close to real damage. It suggest a straight up double body damage rule, but I feel that makes rifles too powerful and also prevents using the same rules for Heroic and Superheroic campaigns.

 

 

Of course, if your system works for you, brilliant. I've read through it and there's nothing inherently wrong with it, so long as you're playing a Heroic level game with a high lethality rate (or PCs with 20+ BODY) it works just fine.

 

 

 

I use it for all my games including 4 color supers. The Armor effect limit has a huge impact there.

 

I also restrict Body in all my games to being based upon body mass. You'd have to be a giant to have 20 body.

 

In fact I'd make the claim that you have a lower chance of being killed in my game for the simple reason that people won't have to shoot you a large number of times in a cumulative body approach.

[Dust Raven]

Re: House Rules?

 

Without the firearm changes it didn't work out. In the real world and the cinematic fiction' date=' most people drop from being shot once. I wanted that to happen.[/quote']

I use the KD rules, and with the higher caliber handguns the target is likely to fall down. Even if he doesn't, he might be stunned. In any case, I disagree about the one shot drop thing. In fiction, at least those that simulate reality, most people are shot several times, and those that are only shot once and fall do so because they realize they've had it if they take another hit, so they stay down. Those that just up and die froma single shot aren't even characters. The GM doesn't even have stats for them other than damage and a DCV. He's already decided that a single shot takes them down.

 

Now I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, I just don't want to derail this one. If you'd like we can continue through PM.