PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Lamrok]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To "Lamrock" and "Old Man" The referee might have to supervise the character creation process carefully to avoid character clashes; or tell you players in advance that you will only accept ONE of each of a group of archetypes and ask them to sort out who gets what among themselves !

 

The first time, I replied thirty minutes after the email went out but found out the other player beat me, so I changed characters (Gypsy Circus performer). The second time, I beat the other player (same guy), so I played my cowboy (the same one I had ready to go in the previous game)

[Lamrok]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

That's why he keeps asking for some kind of concealability stat in the weapons chart' date=' just like in Justice Inc v1. He's said this over and over, I can't figure out how you keep missing that.[/quote']

 

Another way to phrase this would be "a concealability stat, Just like Steve Long included when he wrote Law Dogs for the Deadlands system."

[Lamrok]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

My only problems with this approach are that 1) it essentially enforces character classes which Hero gamers generally detest and 2) it is very likely that you will get two players who forcefully insist on playing the same type.

 

It sin't so much a matter of character classes as "schtick." Everyone likes to carve out their own niche in the things they are responsible for. This is the same no matter what setting you are playing in.

[zornwil]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I didn't even know this forum had popped up until Lamrok mentioned it in passing...

 

I'm in the middle of game prep now and happened across it while looking for a few things I'm reusing from the boards, so no real time, but just wanted to say I'm one of those people NOT very well versed in Pulp. So taking that into account, here's some basics I'd really like to see:

 

Archetypes (I know you'll have them anyway - but I'd like LOTS!)

LOTS of PRE usage tips to fit the genre

lots of flavor emphasis - and not just in text but in illustrations with captions or word balloons (why not, if artists can?)

basic primer on scientific progression and especially criminal investigation technology through the normative pulp period - something easy to reference

I think you need to acknowledge the "split up the party" issue and give lots of tips for doing that EFFECTIVELY (not just how to "work around" it or gloss over such)

 

Just some quick thoughts.

[Agemegos]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To "Agemegos" So what DO you want from the gun rules ?

 

The return of the SIZ stat that they used to have in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc.

 

All it would take to give the weapon's size would be a figure included in the description or a simple table.

 

Exactly so. Just like it was in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc..

 

You said that you want a reason for a large person to carry a small weapon;

 

Particularly, I want the game to represent the factors that in reality and genre fiction motivate people and characters to carry some smaller pistols even though they are capable of using larger ones.

 

'PYSCH LIM: habitually uses .32 pistols', or 'Psych lim: mistakenly thinks a 6.1" Walther PPK is more concealable than a 7.3" Glock 20' would be a reason for a large character to use a small pistol, but it is not the kind of reason I want.

 

the most obvious reason that comes to mind for me is concealability[//quote]

 

That is the most obvious and compelling such factor operating in reality and genre fiction, yes.

 

and for this to work you will need some sort of information on how large and heavy each weapon is.

 

And that is exactly what I am saying that I want to see in Pulp HERO. Such information was included in the weapon table in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc.. The rules were easy to use, took up little space in the rule book, and produced desireable effects. I consider them to have been sorely missed ever since my circle switched over to 3rd Edition.

 

Now, I really don't think that the importance of such rules is confined to pulp adventure gaming. Discreet carries are important in the kind of adventure I use Star HERO and Dark Champions for (SF and modern-setting action-thrillers, mostly). I really think that such rules ought to be in the core rulebook. But they aren't in Fifth Edition, and I'm not about to start agitating for a Sixth Edition just yet.

 

Now, Dark Champions lists PER mods for weapons, which do a pretty good job, though I am a bit surprised by some of the numbers (eg. a Glock 20 is as small as a Walther PPK/S). But I think that the range is too narrow (+0 for a derringer, +1 for any smallish pistol, +2 for a full-sized military sidearam, +3 for monsters like the Desert Eagle or a S&W 29 Silhouette etc.).

 

But on the other hand, Star HERO doesn't list PER mods for weapons. I wouldn't want Pulp HERO to repeat this omission.

 

Anyway, what I am struggling in my usual inarticulate way to say is that I would like to see Pulp HERO include:

 

1) A 'size' stat for weapons like the ones we used to have in Justice, Inc., ie. with a wider range and finer distinctions than we see in the PER mods in Dark Champions.

 

2) If I can't have 1, I'd like the weapons table to include DC-style per mods, not omit them as FREd and Star Hero do.

 

3) Rules for discreet carries such as ankle holsters, small-of-back, belt clip, western-style holsters, and armpit holsters, derringers & throwing daggers up sleeves, etc. These rules might discuss how these carries slow the draw as well as how they conceal the weapon.

[David Blue]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The return of the SIZ stat that they used to have in the original HERO System pulp adventure game' date=' [i']Justice, Inc.[/i]

 

... Just like it was in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc..

 

Anyway, what I am struggling in my usual inarticulate way to say is that I would like to see Pulp HERO include:

 

1) A 'size' stat for weapons like the ones we used to have in Justice, Inc., ie. with a wider range and finer distinctions than we see in the PER mods in Dark Champions.

 

2) If I can't have 1, I'd like the weapons table to include DC-style per mods, not omit them as FREd and Star Hero do.

 

3) Rules for discreet carries such as ankle holsters, small-of-back, belt clip, western-style holsters, and armpit holsters, derringers & throwing daggers up sleeves, etc. These rules might discuss how these carries slow the draw as well as how they conceal the weapon.

Ditto.

 

I liked the rules for James Bond 007. If you set down numbers that invite the players to think not just about damage and shots but about concealment, jam chance and ... getting the first shot (or knife throw) off ... it gives them pause. Suddenly a smooth little pistol that draws swiftly without catching on anything looks better. (Example: Browning Model 1910.)

 

But simply getting back to Justice Inc. would be such a Good Thing I would regard guns and concealed weapons as a solved problem at that point.

[Agemegos]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I liked the rules for James Bond 007.

 

It was a splendid game. I have two copies and still play it every now and again.

 

Unfortunately it isn't as versatile as it could be.

[st barbara]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Okay "Agemegos" I can agree with you on the desirability of a "size" stat being included in the firearm descriptions in the rules. If this DOESN'T happen when the rules come out I have every intention of adding it myself (I am confident that I have enough information to do this, we will see whether my confidence is misplaced). If and when I find it necessary to do this I will let you know what I have come up with.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

3) Rules for discreet carries such as ankle holsters' date=' small-of-back, belt clip, western-style holsters, and armpit holsters, derringers & throwing daggers up sleeves, etc. These rules might discuss how these carries slow the draw as well as how they conceal the weapon.[/quote']

 

Perhaps something like the martial arts stances (ie being no points)?

Ankle Holster: +1 Concealability, -1 Quickdraw

Quickdraw Holster: +2 Quickdraw, -2 Concealability,

Spiring loaded Holster: +2 Lightning Reflexes, only for qucikdrawing that weapon, +1 Concealability, two actions to return to holster.

Trick Holster: +1 with Dex rolls only for performing tricks into or out of the holster.

Trick Holster II: +5 Pre only while Quickdrawing or replacing weapon, -2 concealibility.

[gojira]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Perhaps something like the martial arts stances (ie being no points)?

Ankle Holster: +1 Concealability, -1 Quickdraw

Quickdraw Holster: +2 Quickdraw, -2 Concealability,

Spiring loaded Holster: +2 Lightning Reflexes, only for qucikdrawing that weapon, +1 Concealability, two actions to return to holster.

Trick Holster: +1 with Dex rolls only for performing tricks into or out of the holster.

Trick Holster II: +5 Pre only while Quickdrawing or replacing weapon, -2 concealibility.

 

I like this, it's an excellent idea. Agemegos's idea for a SIZ stat for small firearms is also very good. PLEASE PLEASE add something like this to the basic rules for PH.

 

Thinking a bit more broadly, I'd like to see a few different "worlds", or maybe sub-genres, described in the Pulp Hero book. At least one very true-to-life world, for Cassablanca wannabes. And at least two other, more "fantastic" worlds. At least one flying-ace world, with regular planes and then airships like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and Crimson Skies. Then one Weird Tales pulp horror theme.

 

These two (flying aces and horror) seem to comprise a LOT of what I'm seeing on the various suggestion threads here in the pulp hero forum.

[Peregrine]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Don't let the 'reality' folks drag the book down. Pulp was about larger-than-life (it was, after all, the linear literary predecessor of superhero comics); this book should reflect the genre appropriately.

[Old Man]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

These two (flying aces and horror) seem to comprise a LOT of what I'm seeing on the various suggestion threads here in the pulp hero forum.

 

Well, to these you need to add the whole Lost World/Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Mummy milieu. In some respects this is the intersection of the three campaigns you describe, but is sufficiently different to warrant its own treatment, especially with respect to cannibal apes and animated mummies.

[Baphomet Jones]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Sidebars in the sections on pulp locations about the local legends, lost tribes, and mythic beasties commonly assocatied with each locale would be wonderful. Even if they're not appropriate to a particular campaign it would do a lot to help capture the feel of a location

[st barbara]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To "Old Man" I agree. At some point any Pulp game should encounter some sort of "lost world" adventure. I'm sure that I have an old book that was done for just that purpose with stats in several systems for running a "lost world romance". Ancient curses are right up there as well whether they come from an Egyptian mummy, a Tibetan high priest, or a tribal shaman, and don't forget those encounters with "things that man was not meant to know about "!

[Agemegos]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'd just like to note it here for easy reference.

 

It'd be great if Pulp HERO included a character sheet designed for the requirements of characters that neither cast spells nor exert powers, but that wield guns and drive cars.

[gojira]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well' date=' to these you need to add the whole Lost World/Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Mummy milieu. In some respects this is the intersection of the three campaigns you describe, but is sufficiently different to warrant its own treatment, especially with respect to cannibal apes and animated mummies.[/quote']

 

Hmm, was Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Mummy stuff present in the pulp period? I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking. Lost World was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in 1912, so it's sorta pulp (kinda proto-pulp), and there's H. G. Wells' stuff, but I'm not sure that the whole cannibal-vine-cover-ruins thing didn't come later. Maybe Tarzan is part of what you are talking about?

 

Anywhoo, I agree that the *modern* idea of pulp probably includes these genres, so it might be wise to include them.

 

If I had to pick a couple more genres to add though, my choices I think would be Bootleggers vs. Cops (US prohibition), and early (pre-WW II) supers.

[demonjuice]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Period terminology is great, but in my experience in reading pulps, and playing pulp it is more about the verbs and adjectives then the nouns. as a brief addendum to the lingo section there should be bit on how to "speak the pulps", or putting it all together to get the visceral physicality that inhabits all good pulp fiction.

There also must be weird scientist terminology, that would be both fun and useful, because there are limited coherant gaming resources for it already.I understand the need to focus on reality, but the mad inventor is far too valuable a genre staple to be ignored.

[st barbara]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To "Agemegos" I would think that the characters that "cast spells or exert powers" would be the exception rather than the rule in a Pulp game. I think that "powers" should be either restricted or expensive for P Cs and spell casting would also have to be pretty restricted for it to work in a Pulp setting and not be just "Pre war Champions".

[Agemegos]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To "Agemegos" I would think that the characters that "cast spells or exert powers" would be the exception rather than the rule in a Pulp game.

 

Indeed. That is exactly why I asked for a character sheet designed specially for characters that do not use spells or powers.

 

The space saved ought to be used to a section for weapon and vehicle stats.

[demonjuice]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

For technologies treatment in the equipment section I would like to see more then just a list of stats for weapons and dates, I would also like to have quick overview of real world technical developements related into game terms, so I can tweak them as need and still keep the period flavor. this is accomplished incredibly well in the award winning Gurps Steampunk. that would be giving gms a real tool to work with instead of a set of expected limitations.

[st barbara]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Agreed "Demonjuice" It might also be useful to have the timeline "extended" a bit past the "classic" Pulp era (after World War II that is) with lists of when some inventions were first developed and first marketed so that "brilliant inventor" type players can come up with things a bit ahead of their "real world" invention times.

[LadyChaos]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

in my experience in reading pulps' date=' and playing pulp it is more about the verbs and adjectives then the nouns.[/quote']

 

The first time I saw King Kong I was struck when Carl Denhem said "swell" about every other sentence. No one says swell anymore (unless speaking of injuries!).

[zornwil]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The first time I saw King Kong I was struck when Carl Denhem said "swell" about every other sentence. No one says swell anymore (unless speaking of injuries!).

Oh, you kid!

 

(another '30s-ism, give or take, in case it or my intent was lost!)

[Jess Nevins]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I'd like to see is the PH delayed until I finish my Encyclopedia of Pulp Heroes, so I can send you a copy, so it can appear in the Bibliography. :-)

 

Saving that, some sort of acknowledgment that there was a huge amount of pulp material published outside the US, with a correspondingly vast number of pulp heroes. (I can send you as much material as you'd like on them--you wouldn't have to do any research whatsoever).

 

Jess Nevins

Encyclopedia of Fantastic Victoriana (Nov., 2005)

Encyclopedia of Pulp Heroes (Nov., 2006)

Encyclopedia of Golden Age Superheroes (Nov., 2007)

[Steve Long]

Re: PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Believe me, Jess, I really wish your pulp heroes book was coming out sooner -- I have your book on LoEG, which I've quite enjoyed. Whenever we get around to Victorian Hero, I'm definitely going to order the EoFV.