REALLY Hostile Mind Control

[Michael Hopcroft]

How difficult is it to Mind Control someone into killing themselves or doing something equally self-destructive (like carrying a bomb or a deadly plague onto a subway train for you)?

 

This would be a truly nasty ability for a villain of terroristic or sadistic bent. I also wonder how you can build a device (Focus) to the effect of "Look into this gem and you will be automatically compelled to kill yourself immediately".

 

This could also make for a villain so foridable that he cannot be defeated -- he can literally kill anyone he wants to with full legal impunity, and any superhero who attempted to stop him would be dispatched with their own powers!

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Going off the Mind Control chart: Ego + 30. I'd tack on the +10, 'Order Contradicts Target's Psychological Limitations', simply because very few people are suicidal. So you're looking at a minimum roll of 50 for DeathMaster to Mind Control normal people into driving those suicide bombs -- somewhere around 12-15d6 worth of Mind Control.

 

People who are suicidally fanatic anyhow, on the other hand, might just require a 'Persuasion' roll, you know?

[death tribble]

Remember also that they might not know that they are doing it.

 

The Mind Control command is this and would thus attract a lower penalty.

'This is your briefcase which you will take with you to work and open it at (set time or location).'

that's for the bomb.

 

'This is a healthy drink which you should share with as many people as possible'

[Hermit]

Death Tribble is right, wording is important. Heck, if the mind controller knows the personality he's dealing with (IE has a good guess on Psych limitations) then he can really get going.

 

"This briefcase must be opened in the tunnels and soon so it can send out the signal to the kidnappers and little jonny will live."

 

A bit silly, but if the guy being told that has 'protective of innocents'... harder to resist.

[wcw43921]

Yes, Death Tribble and Hermit are correct--wording is essential. Wouldn't hurt, though, to have Armor Piercing or Find Weakness for your Power just in case you want to use it against PCs.

 

Also, I think the law considers inciting someone to suicide to be criminally actionable.

 

I was wondering--where did you get the idea? Years ago I came across a comic book called TIGER-MAN, and the only issue I saw had the villain, one Doctor Hypnos, using a Mind Control device disguised as his monocle to induce people to kill themselves--something about eliminating "imperfect" people, if I remember right. In the end he fell victim to his own device, and jumped to his death.

 

I was beginning to think I was the only one who read that comic until now. . .

[Michael Hopcroft]

Why I came up with it

 

Let's just say i was in an especially bad mood at that particular moment.

 

I remember seeing issues of Tiger-Man posted on my high school library wall, but never reads the comic. I have no idea who published it and somehow it didn't strike me as being reading-worthy to any particular degree.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Really, this sort of thing abounds in any comic within which you have an absolute psychopath for a villian. The Joker would be a good example of someone who might have a chemical that'd do this, thus giving a price break to him for its use. And why bother using it against heros? Using it against normals is even more villianous than against heros. 'Pull the pin on this grenade and as soon as you hear the word 'blah', pop the spoon.' Juice up a dozen normals with it, give them all grenades and different code-words, and when the heros show up, inform them of the 'situation'. Watch them tear their hair out. Change grenade to 'bomb filled with Smylex', spread the normals across the city, and watch the fur REALLY fly!!

 

Woo. I like this idea.

[Marcus]

Worm, I like that nearly as much as 'There are twelve tactical nuclear devices in the city. You have an hour to find them all. Do you intend to interfere with me, or start looking?'

 

For the sadistic in your GM circle, there might be..

no bombs

11 bombs (watch them LOOSE IT as the 11th hour approaches)

13 bombs (just cause im that kinda guy)

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Originally posted by Marcus

For the sadistic in your GM circle, there might be..

no bombs

11 bombs (watch them LOOSE IT as the 11th hour approaches)

13 bombs (just cause im that kinda guy)

 

Full response to this is over in the 'DC Villians for Avengers Heros' thread, at http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3032

 

Short response: It's 'Wyrm', not 'Worm'. I'm not Grima. And any villian who lied about massive civilian casualties would swiftly end up a DEAD villian. Batman, Superman, even Captain America have been pushed just that far...

[Karma]

Originally posted by Marcus

Worm, I like that nearly as much as 'There are twelve tactical nuclear devices in the city. You have an hour to find them all. Do you intend to interfere with me, or start looking?'

 

For the sadistic in your GM circle, there might be..

no bombs

11 bombs (watch them LOOSE IT as the 11th hour approaches)

13 bombs (just cause im that kinda guy)

 

How about "There is a dozen nukes in the city. One will go off every hour on the hour unless you find them. Signed Charles Baker"

 

Then there's 13 (a Baker's Dozen) although that might be a little cerebral for some it's the kind of thing a "I'm the most intelligent person on the planet and I'm going to prove it by making you look like fools" type villian would do.

 

Then he'd also like the idea of planting 'sleeper agent's' like those above whose trigger word is something banal and lowbrow (Duh, doh, like ya know, like whatever) because that way he'd kill all the sorts of people he really hates.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: REALLY Hostile Mind Control

 

Originally posted by Michael Hopcroft

How difficult is it to Mind Control someone into killing themselves or doing something equally self-destructive (like carrying a bomb or a deadly plague onto a subway train for you)?

 

Just to review the suggestions in The Ultimate Mentalist (p. 43): There are two ways given to handle this. The first is to order the subject to hurt or kill himself, requiring an effect roll of "at least Ego +30." The other way is to order the target to "Die!" causing his heart to stop beating etc. In this case the victim takes damage as per Mental Illusions, 1D6 per 5 Active Points in MC. He takes Stun damage for +10 points of effect, Stun + Body damage for +20 points. The damage is applied against Mental Defense.

 

Although UM doesn't specify, I would guess that those modifiers would be added on top of Ego +30 for "violently opposed." I would agree with Wyrm Ouroboros that acting to kill yourself and knowing that the outcome would be fatal should require an additional +10, unless the subject of the MC already had suicidal tendencies. However, to harm yourself knowing that the result would probably not be fatal ("Shoot yourself in the foot" and similar commands), I would require only the Ego +30 roll. I also agree that the wording of the command could make a great difference.

[Marchwarden]

Originally posted by Karma

How about "There is a dozen nukes in the city. One will go off every hour on the hour unless you find them. Signed Charles Baker"

 

Then there's 13 (a Baker's Dozen) although that might be a little cerebral for some it's the kind of thing a "I'm the most intelligent person on the planet and I'm going to prove it by making you look like fools" type villian would do.

 

I actually used this one once. I did make it a little easier. It wasn't singed by anybody, but the first bomb they found was in Baker Square, the second was at a gospel radio station broadcasting Rev. Jimmy Bakker, one was at the Nissen Baked Goods distribution center, etc.. Once they got the pattern, it became actually possible to narrow the search and actually find 12 nukes hidden across New York City in one hour. In fact, they got number 12 with seven minutes to spare. They spent a couple of minutes sighing with relief and smiling at the cameras, and that was when the team leader made the "OH ****!" face as he realized that "Baker's Dozen" was the final part of the riddle. The next 5 minutes were played out in Champions combat time: phase by phase. It was the tensest roleplay I'd ever seen: players wiping their sweaty palms on their jeans, looking ill, spilling their Cokes...

 

...but when they disarmed the 13th nuke on phase 8 of Turn 25 (Timer stuck at 00:04), they felt like gods. I was worried that it would drag out too long or that they'd get frustrated, but it turned into one of those "our finest hour" sessions.

 

As far as I'm concerned, it was just another old-style Champions marathon fight scene, with the clock as the enemy.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Originally posted by Marchwarden

...and that was when the team leader made the "OH ****!" face as he realized that "Baker's Dozen" was the final part of the riddle. The next 5 minutes were played out in Champions combat time: phase by phase. It was the tensest roleplay I'd ever seen: players wiping their sweaty palms on their jeans, looking ill, spilling their Cokes...

 

...but when they disarmed the 13th nuke on phase 8 of Turn 25 (Timer stuck at 00:04), they felt like gods. I was worried that it would drag out too long or that they'd get frustrated, but it turned into one of those "our finest hour" sessions.

 

As far as I'm concerned, it was just another old-style Champions marathon fight scene, with the clock as the enemy.

 

*sniff* *sob* I love you, man!!

 

No, seriously. This is the sort of wicked-assed GM that I want to play under. That's just too excellent.