OIHID and Multiform

[greymankle]

Ok, if you put only in hero Identity on a group of powers. All those powers are off until the character "powers up" I am making a mentalist who specializes in metabolic Psionics. He aids himself by boosting his stats and such. I was thinking about a VPP but I think it would be cleaner to just define 2 or three power sets he commonly uses and do it as a multiform. The forms would be the "powered up versions"

 

Can I put OIHID on the true forms multiform? I think it should work but I have this nagging feeling I'm cheesing something. Can I get a ruling form the board elite?

 

Thanks.

[tesuji]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

Ok, if you put only in hero Identity on a group of powers. All those powers are off until the character "powers up" I am making a mentalist who specializes in metabolic Psionics. He aids himself by boosting his stats and such. I was thinking about a VPP but I think it would be cleaner to just define 2 or three power sets he commonly uses and do it as a multipower. The forms would be the "powered up versions"

 

Can I put OIHID on the true forms multiform? I think it should work but I have this nagging feeling I'm cheesing something. Can I get a ruling form the board elite?

 

Thanks.

 

OIHID means (normally) there is an extra difficulty is changing to the "super" form or a way or circumstance that can prevent the transformation, even if only for a few moments.

 

Does your character have such? Do you expect that maybe one session in four you will spend more time than the others do? Do you figure your character will still be trying to "get into power mode" while the others are walloping the bad guy and saving people?

 

if the answer to all the above is "sure, thats what i mean! I wat those scenes.", then OIHID on the multiform and savings seem appropriate.

 

otherwise, what you MIGHT be describing are distinctive features advantages on your multiform forms. or maybe even just justiofications for increased PRE scores for them.

[Dust Raven]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

I would say "no". OIHID means you lack a power until you get into heroic ID, but if your heroic ID is a completely different character, then what do you put it on? You can't get into one ID without actually switching, so you can't put it on the Multiform, and since each form is an ID, it's not limiting to put it on any of the Powers of either form as well.

[greymankle]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

I would say "no". OIHID means you lack a power until you get into heroic ID' date=' but if your heroic ID is a completely different character, then what do you put it on? You can't get into one ID without actually switching, so you can't put it on the Multiform, and since each form [i']is[/i] an ID, it's not limiting to put it on any of the Powers of either form as well.

so if I had to put on a costume before using Muliform it would work. But since Multiform "is" the costume change I can't.

 

Different "forms" wouldn't be really different characters. The same character just with different powers. I could use a VPP for the same effect but I just see it cleaner using multiform. Maybe I'll just add extra time to the multiform. Give's him time to mentally prepare himself.

[Jhamin]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

What you describe is one of those things that may be ok in some situations, but it just sets off alot of alarm bells when GM's read your sheet.

 

Only in Hero ID is a limit that often gets misapplied to character concepts who are not limited by it very much. As it often gets applied to the whole character, that is a decent point break on everything. Thus, may GMs watch it closely.

 

Multiform can be abused to create a character who can do anything as long as he has a half phase to change first. This allows one player to dominate several niches in the character group for relatively few points.

 

When you try to combine the two, you are combining an often suspect limit with one of the most point efficient powers in the game. The odds of it becoming cheezy go way up. Not that what you are doing is, just that it has the potential to be.

[Ndreare]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

As a GM I would not allow this combo in this situation. There may be some were I would but this is not one of them. I think it crosses the line.

[MitchellS]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

What you might want to do is buy some of the powers as normal, but some additional power with OIHID [to represent powering up], and then some additional powers with OIHID and a small limitation stating something like "only after being at level 2 for 2 full turns": -1/2. Example:

 

Normal level: 4d6 Ego attack

Level 2: +2d6 Ego attack, OIHID

Level 3: +2d6 Ego attack, OIHID, Only after being at Level 2 for 2 full turns: -1/2

[Dust Raven]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

so if I had to put on a costume before using Muliform it would work. But since Multiform "is" the costume change I can't.

In a nutshell, yes.

 

Imagine how strange it might be if yelling "By the power of Grayskull!" didn't work until after Prince Adam stripped out of his royal tights and donned his mighty fur underwear and boots. He gets one or the other, but not both.

 

Different "forms" wouldn't be really different characters. The same character just with different powers. I could use a VPP for the same effect but I just see it cleaner using multiform. Maybe I'll just add extra time to the multiform. Give's him time to mentally prepare himself.

 

There are usually a number of ways to simulate the normal-turns-into-super change. The most commonly used are OIHID and Multiform, as you've already discovered. A VPP would be unusual, but certainly feasable. One thing some players overlook is the simple activation of powers. One player in a campaign I ran last year had his hero ID defined as turning his Armor on. The Armor didn't have OIHID, because it could turn it on any time, but when on, he was a superhero, and off he was normal. A number of his other power (extra STR and movement mainly) were bought Linked to the Armor, rather than OIHID as well, as it better fit that particular character. You might find something like fits your concept as well (perhaps a VPP that's universally Linked to a specific Power that must be active for anything in the VPP to work).

[Ndreare]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

There are usually a number of ways to simulate the normal-turns-into-super change. The most commonly used are OIHID and Multiform, as you've already discovered. A VPP would be unusual, but certainly feasable. One thing some players overlook is the simple activation of powers. One player in a campaign I ran last year had his hero ID defined as turning his Armor on. The Armor didn't have OIHID, because it could turn it on any time, but when on, he was a superhero, and off he was normal. A number of his other power (extra STR and movement mainly) were bought Linked to the Armor, rather than OIHID as well, as it better fit that particular character. You might find something like fits your concept as well (perhaps a VPP that's universally Linked to a specific Power that must be active for anything in the VPP to work).

 

Was his name Colosus?

[Dust Raven]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

Was his name Colosus?

 

, no, this was an original character of one of my players, but it would apply to Colossus as well in my opinion.

[prestidigitator]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

Multiform already has the restriction that you can't use a form's Powers while in another form. It is a basic part of the Power. You get 1/5 the cost because of it. Be happy or go eat a stick.

[Silbeg]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

so if I had to put on a costume before using Muliform it would work. But since Multiform "is" the costume change I can't.

 

I would say that typically, OIHID isn't just a costume change... it could be (like powered armor bought as OIHID instead of OIF), but I see it more typically to be Johnny Storm bellowing out "Flame On!" to go into his flame form (note, though, he might not be bought that way, either!). A multiform would be more like Captain Marvel, Thor, or The Hulk, where the resulting "heroic" form has its own unique personality.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

I have to agree with the concensus that combining OIHID with Multiform is questionable at best. Both are designed to represent characteristics and abilities which are not available to a character all the time, and only after some appreciable change in the character.

 

Since this thread has started to explore the broader distinctions between Multiform and OIHID, I'm going to reprint my personal guidelines for which is applicable to a character design:

 

My first, broadest consideration when making this distinction is: Does the character have any need or reason to spend any significant amount of time in his non-powered identity? If he's almost always in superhuman form, then no special provisions for a second form are necessary or warranted.

 

My second question would be, does the character retain his essential personality, Skills, non-superhuman abilities, and at least some Disadvantages in both forms? If the answer is yes, OIHID sounds more appropriate; if no, Multiform is more the way to go.

 

If the answer to the second question was yes, then I ask if the character has any kind of difficulty changing forms (requires some extra time, intense concentration, special spoken word or item) such that an opponent, or the right circumstances, could prevent the change? If the answer to this question is yes, then OIHID is probably warranted. If the shift between forms is instantaneous and effortless, and it rarely or never inconveniences the character, then the two forms are basically SFX and the Limitation really doesn't apply. (Mind Controlling the person to not change, or attacking him when he's sleeping, wouldn't be fair to include as prevention conditions IMO.)

[altamaros]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

IMHO it should be possible if the character is a triple-level character. (normal, heroic, superheroic)

I think, as an example, to Fraza in Dragon Ball Z. (Fraza can first transform himself in his 1st powered form, then in the second and only then in the third).

 

In "Machine:Robo Revenge of Cronos" (a kind of jap-anime spin off of the Go-Bots, mid-80's IIRC), the hero, Rom, is able to transform himself into a first robot named Blade Dragon (-OIHID-). Once in Blade Dragon form, he can "call" another robot, Vikung-Fu, more powerful and merge into it - multiform, OIHID -.

 

As such, the character must first "change clothes" and once he's in "hero mode" he can activate the multiform. IMHO, this would be the only situation where i could allow this kind of point-saving trick.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

In a nutshell, yes.

 

Imagine how strange it might be if yelling "By the power of Grayskull!" didn't work until after Prince Adam stripped out of his royal tights and donned his mighty fur underwear and boots. He gets one or the other, but not both...

Now there's an image.

 

Segue...

 

Can anyone tell me why He-Man was so damned determined to keep a secret ID? The point of the secret ID is to protect the loved ones, but his loved ones were the most targeted people in (whatever the name of that place was)! It makes no sense! Man that cartoon sucked...

[prestidigitator]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

Can anyone tell me why He-Man was so damned determined to keep a secret ID? The point of the secret ID is to protect the loved ones' date=' but his loved ones were the most targeted people in (whatever the name of that place was)! It makes no sense! Man that cartoon sucked...

Well, there's one more thing a Secret ID does for you: it can help to preserve your sanity. You don't have the press hounding you all the time, and you don't have people asking you to, "reclaim their stolen property," and such things everywhere you turn. The Secret ID itself can be a tremendous boon. It's the fact that you have to maintain the Secret ID that is a pain.

[Dust Raven]

Re: OIHID and Multiform

 

Yeah, who'd want to be He-Man all day every day? He-Man is an elemental force driven to protect Eternia from evil. Especially since he was the prince, I can see why he wouldn't want anyone to know. All that extra attention, the expectations... Adam was a cowardly lazy bum! He didn't want any of that.