Summoner

[Dust Raven]

Re: Summoner

 

In one of the final Fantasy Espers are summoned critters. You call them, little animation and big attack; and they go away. they're called materia primae in some other versions (?).

 

I have a draft hdc of a similar character on my drive. do you want it ?

Ah, well I know nothing of Final Fantasy, other than it's a video game and I saw my friend playing it. But sure, I'd love to check out the write up. The concept calls for 3 powerful (around PC level) monsters, and a number of smaller, not-so-powerful creatures that might be helpful in other ways.

 

 

Note from my playtests : be careful with your Gm: from experience, anything that adds character sheets on the table (duplication, summon, followers) tends to slow the game.

 

I would probably admit only one duplicate or summoned creature present in game at a time.

 

Agreed. The only reason I'd be allowed such a concept in the first place (and I'm not so certain I'll actually play the character really), is because I've been a GM in our group for the most part and the current GM trusts me. That, and this character can only have one summoned creature active at a time.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Summoner

 

I personally wouldn't allow this concept into my campaign. But that's mostly due to style. I think a *Hero* should fight his own battle' date=' not summon or controls others to have it done for him.[/quote'] I understand completely. One of the reasons I want to be able to play the monsters myself, rather than have them be NPCs. I do get your point about not being heroic, but in this particular genre, using a willing and friendly (to the PC) monster is no different that batman using his jet, car and utility belt (in other words, it's just the tools he uses).

 

Forgetting about that, Duplication would work fine as would a completely loyal summon (I allow the players to run summon creatures myself).

 

 

As to unbalancing, that depends in part upon the abilities of the original character. Is he combat effective without the summoning? If so, it may become a issue with the other players. After all, he'll in concept be able to do twice as much as they can just from the combine SPD of two characters alone.

 

If the original isn't combat effective, you have the problem of what happens when that character is targeted by his foes? If knocked out, does the creature disappear? The character may not be useable in practical terms.

 

I suppose it's possible to have the original character be offensively weak (or even useless) and defensively strong. Odd but possible (maybe he goes desolided with zero movement). This might be the most playable version.

The way the character is written up currently, the summon is just her attack power. He has other spells, magic equipment, etc. No movement powers though, as none are needed. She can summon a roc to fly her to the battle or get around town, or just hitch a ride with the other heroes, and in combat, he monsters do all the moving and fighting. She pretty much just keeps her FF on, takes cover, and keeps and eye on the monster's back to yell out warnings, suggestions, etc.

 

 

Something to keep in mind, the ability to summon a number of different creatures (or change into them with multform, or duplicate into them) allows the player to select a "best case" from a line up to meet a specific task.

 

Facing a Human Torch wannabe? Summon HYDRO, the water spitter.

 

Facing a fast MA who depends upon DCV? Summon Area-Effect Lizard.

 

Etc.

 

Thus it's important to make sure the character pays for the optimizing effect of such powers. As a result I require that any other forms/duplicates/summonings are not only under the campaign total point cap- they are under by at least the cost of the original power.

Absolutely. As it stands, the GM has asked that the character only be permitted to have creatures maxing at 300 points (200+100) in a 350 point campaign. So any given monster won't be as powerful as any given hero.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Summoner

 

Michael' date=' stop listening to my ideas on my conceptual superhero, Deckmaster. It'll be safer that way. [/quote']

Who Decks the Deckmaster?

[Lethosos]

Re: Summoner

 

If the Deckmaster doesn't have any armor played on him, of course.

 

Seriously, though--the idea was a semi-random selection of effects that he could bring out into play through a metagame construct--an actual deck of cards carefully balanced with in-game effects written down on hand. Swapping in more powerful cards into his deck required an expenditure of XP, of course.

[altamaros]

Re: Summoner

 

But sure' date=' I'd love to check out the write up. [/quote']remember that this is a draft. i didn't touch this character since last year :

 

shepherd

 

Player: Daniel

 

Val	Char	Cost
18	STR	8
20	DEX	30
25	CON	30
14	BODY	8
18	INT	8
20	EGO	20
18	PRE	8
16	COM	3
8/13	PD	4
8/13	ED	3
5	SPD	20
9	REC	0
50	END	0
36	STUN	0

8" RUN42" SWIM03 1/2" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 146

 

Cost	Power	END
	"Warder abilities"
6	1) Fast healing: Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 5 Minutes (-1 3/4), Self Only (-1/2)
13	2) Longevity: LS (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: 800 Years)
4	3) Strong-willed: Mental Defense (10 points total); Not vs Telepathy and Mind scan Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2)
	"Beastmaster abilities"
12	1) "Bond to called beast": Mind Link , Specific Group of Minds, Any dimension, Psychic Bond; Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1)
61	2) "To me, (monster)": Duplication (creates 8 210-point Duplicates), Easy Recombination (Zero-Phase Action at Full DCV), Ranged Recombination (+1/2), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (167 Active Points); Restrainable ((tatoos on right arm); -1/2), Only one duplicate present at a time: Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Feedback (Only STUN Damage Feeds Back; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)
	"Warder equipment"
10	1) "Armored cloth": Armor (5 PD/5 ED); OIF (armored cloth; -1/2)

Powers Cost: 106

 

 

Cost	Skill
8	Animal Handler (Aquatic Animals, Birds, Canines, Equines, Insects & Anthropods, Other: Beast monsters, Reptiles & Amphibians) 13-
3	Breakfall 13-
3	Climbing 13-
3	Concealment 13-
3	Paramedics 13-
3	Riding 13-
3	Stealth 13-
4	Survival (Temperate/Subtropical, Tropical) 13-
3	Tracking 13-
3	Teamwork 13-
2	KS: beast monsters 11-
1	WF: Blades
0	Language: English (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)
2	Language: Shangri-Lan (fluent conversation)

Skills Cost: 41

 

Cost	Perk
5	Fringe Benefit: Membership (UNTIL)
1	Fringe Benefit: Passport

Perks Cost: 6

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 299

 

Val	Disadvantages
10	Distinctive Features: glowing "maori-like" tatoos all over right arm (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)
20	Hunted: Chinese secret services 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)
15	Hunted: UNTIL 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Watching)
15	Psychological Limitation: Takes care of his beasts before himself (Common, Strong)
10	Psychological Limitation: asocial with humanity (Common, Moderate)
15	Psychological Limitation: Dislike of modern technology (Very Common, Moderate)
15	Physical Limitation: Loses life expectancy -1D6 years- each time a monster dies (Infrequently, Fully Impairing)
15	Physical Limitation: Beast and master cannot act together at the same phase (Frequently, Greatly Impairing)
20	Enraged: When beasts are hurt or killed (Common), go 11-, recover 11-
15	Social Limitation: Secret ID (Frequently, Major)

Disadvantage Points: 150

 

Base Points: 150

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

 

The background of this character (the original is in french and i don't have the time to translate it all) :

 

Born in the 30's; Donnell Springer -the Shepherd; lame name, i know - was travelling in Tibet in the 50's when China annexes the country. Unfortunately for him, he witnesses the exactions of a chinese death squadron, is shot several times by the soldiers and let to die.

 

A Naga (see The Mystic World) discovers him, takes him to Shangri-la and heals him.

the Nagas use some kind of "agents/body guards" called warders (yep, i've been reading "The Wheel of Time" and "3 x3 Eyes" when i built this character) to interact with the mundane world, protect them from harm and basically do any kind of job a Naga could need. By gratefulness, Donnell decides to stay with the Nagas and become the warder of a Naga with a knack for dimensional exploration.

 

In one of these dimensions, Donnell and his Naga discover a strange warrior way of "beast magic" and initiates himself to this "art". Unfortunately, he's unable to protect his master some times later and the naga dies.

 

Feeling dishonored by this, Shepherd leaves Shangri-la and wanders around the globe to find a goal to his life. he finds it in UNTIL.

 

Construction notes : i don't find one of the beast write-ups but basically each monster has

- a mind link to his master

- regeneration with the resurrection adder. (hence the disadvantage on the character's life expectancy)

- various abilities

 

so far, i had - on an excel sheet-

- A squirrel - mouse with tracking abilities - see Scrat in Ice Age ? -

- A manta-like flying fish (for transportation)

- A electric lizard

- A giant turtle with force wall abilities

- ... others non determined yet.

 

You can probably reduce the cost by using "Costs END" on duplication or using continuous charges ...

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Summoner

 

I understand completely. One of the reasons I want to be able to play the monsters myself, rather than have them be NPCs. I do get your point about not being heroic, but in this particular genre, using a willing and friendly (to the PC) monster is no different that batman using his jet, car and utility belt (in other words, it's just the tools he uses).

 

 

The way the character is written up currently, the summon is just her attack power. He has other spells, magic equipment, etc. No movement powers though, as none are needed. She can summon a roc to fly her to the battle or get around town, or just hitch a ride with the other heroes, and in combat, he monsters do all the moving and fighting. She pretty much just keeps her FF on, takes cover, and keeps and eye on the monster's back to yell out warnings, suggestions, etc.

 

 

 

Absolutely. As it stands, the GM has asked that the character only be permitted to have creatures maxing at 300 points (200+100) in a 350 point campaign. So any given monster won't be as powerful as any given hero.

 

That's a good point, as long as monsters are kept reasonably sized and don't have horrendus attacks. Like i once made a chacter named "scandal man" (don't ask) who was a summoner who had a bunch of specialized babies for various tasks. One who was really ugly was the "bomb baby" who sold back most of his stats, and then bought a really large explosion RKA that would kill him every time but had 1 non-recoverable charge (though that might fall under the limitations that arn't limiting, i never played the char so it didn't mater to me)

 

the bonus to duplication is you get to control the monster no mater what, with a summon the GM can control them, esp. if you order them to do things like sacrifice themselves without the appropreate disadvantages.

 

And bewere of the number of tasks they can preform, if you summon them, a summoning bug in our party had a nasty surpise with that one

[Dust Raven]

Re: Summoner

 

And bewere of the number of tasks they can preform' date=' if you summon them, a summoning bug in our party had a nasty surpise with that one[/quote']

 

That's an excellent point in the favor of using Duplication. With Duplication, the character can "order" the monster to whatever she wishes, and the monster is more than just slavishly loyal, it's an extension of the character herself.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Summoner

 

thanks Raven. I learned about that when a player in a game i was in was trying to make a resummonable "follower" ie. basically a sidekick you can respawn. Now i wouldn't have let her do it, but the way the GM and her agreed upon is a Summon with a huge amount of tasks (a few hundred or so) and specific being, then resumoning it every morning

[prestidigitator]

Re: Summoner

 

Obviously this concept implies the use of the Summon and or Duplication Powers (I'm leaning toward Duplication' date=' as that would be more fun for the player).[/quote']

You could always let the player control the Summoned creature, provided it is bought with the right level of loyalty.

[zornwil]

Re: Summoner

 

Our master of dimensional energies is something like this, though not nearly that limited, he can definitely do stuff in his own right, but he does rely on Summoned creatures. It's interesting because he has to bargain with the less loyal, of course. Anyway, I think doing it as Summon is just fine. I think there is a danger of becoming unbalancing, surely, but I think that's especially true if the Summoner just keeps Summoning lots or if the beings Summoned of course are way out of line. Duplication is a great method to inhibit that reasonably. But Summon should work as well, as if this is your character then you can help to not make it unbalancing. I'd be concerned in the hands of a heavy-handed Gamist player or an inexperienced player; in those cases (doesn't apply since you're the one of course) I'd suggest enforcing some limits, such as how many can be Summoned at once and/or trade-offs where more powerful Summoned creatures have more overt Limitations or risks.

[Rapier]

Re: Summoner

 

He can only summon one at a time though. While the creature is summoned' date=' the spell caster basically sits back and lets his monster fight for him, while he stands on the sidelines kinda like a really involved cheerleader (but not necessarly screaming "Heromon, justice attack now!").[/quote']

 

As long as his name isn't Ash Ketchem.

 

WHAT? It used to be on before Batman.....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Summoner

 

As long as his name isn't Ash Ketchem.

 

WHAT? It used to be on before Batman.....

 

 

Actually, I was thinking Soot Bringam

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Summoner

 

I was just watching a buddy of mine play a video game and one of the characters in the game inspired me with an idea for a Champions-ish type character. I'm not sure just how feasable it might be though.

 

Basically, the character would be a mystic/spellcaster type, but the spells he casts are summoning spells. He'll have a number of creatures he can summon, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. He can only summon one at a time though. While the creature is summoned, the spell caster basically sits back and lets his monster fight for him, while he stands on the sidelines kinda like a really involved cheerleader (but not necessarly screaming "Heromon, justice attack now!").

 

Obviously this concept implies the use of the Summon and or Duplication Powers (I'm leaning toward Duplication, as that would be more fun for the player). My concern is that such a concept might be a bit unbalancing, and was looking for advice on how to balance it, or reasurance that it's not really unbalancing as I'm thinking it is.

 

 

I didnt read thru the other posts, but you might consider going another route with a "Summoner" type character -- treat the "summoning" as a SFX for Powers rather than actually using the Summon Power.

 

Something like this character here:

 

[JTesla]

Re: Summoner

 

Killer Shrike, would you mind posting the Hero Designer file for that character? I couldn't find it on your site. I’ll try not to sound too giddy, but that is one of the most incredible characters I’ve seen (yeah I know, I need to get out more).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Summoner

 

Killer Shrike' date=' would you mind posting the Hero Designer file for that character? I couldn't find it on your site. I’ll try not to sound too giddy, but that is one of the most incredible characters I’ve seen (yeah I know, I need to get out more).[/quote']

 

The background is from MDO. His original character was a classic summoner that I refactored into the version above.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Summoner

 

I didnt read thru the other posts, but you might consider going another route with a "Summoner" type character -- treat the "summoning" as a SFX for Powers rather than actually using the Summon Power.

 

Something like this character here:

Yeah, I had considered that, but wanted the feel of a single entity that could act independantly of the main character, take it's own damage and make it's own decisions, even when the summoner was unconscious (though I might make it a Limitation that the duplicates automatically recombine if the base character is killed/KOed)

 

That's a cool character btw.