Teleios Oddity

[Steve]

I was looking over Teleios today, and I noticed one power that he didn't have that surprised me by its absence: Life Support (Immunity to Disease). As a perfect human, shouldn't he have a perfect immune system? I know he has his VPP built around biochemical powers, but it looks like he could be hit by a disease-based power that was fast-acting and be downed before he could even think of shifting his points. It just struck me as an odd gap in his write-up.

[Hermit]

Mmm, true.

Still, with a 30 CON, he's not likely to catch too many ordinary diesases anyways, and if he did get infected somehow, he could just whip up a cure (Dispel Diesase) with his VPP

[Steve]

Well, if his VPP was 0-Phase, I'd agree with you on the Dispel issue. As it is written though, it takes time, likely a turn or more, for him to do anything with his pool, even with his skill roll. If he is hit with some disease-based attack that is fast-acting and deadly, it looks like he's toast.

 

Your point on his CON raises an interesting notion. At what CON point do you get an effective immunity to such things as colds and ordinary illnesses without buying an equivalent level of Life Support? Does a high CON offer such protection as a minor side effect?

[KA.]

Originally posted by Hermit

Mmm, true.

Still, with a 30 CON, he's not likely to catch too many ordinary diesases anyways, and if he did get infected somehow, he could just whip up a cure (Dispel Diesase) with his VPP

 

You know, the effect of CON on catching normal (not attack power based) diseases would be a great topic for Steve Long to cover in Fantasy Hero.

 

The Fantasy genre is a place where disease (plague, infection, etc.) is quite likely to show up.

 

I don't think we would need huge lists of diseases and their effects, but some 'official' rules about how to do this would be nice, and Fantasy Hero would be a nice place to put them.

 

My brief thoughts (just throwing out numbers) would be:

 

1) Exposure to bad conditions (In prison, trapped in a damp cave, etc.) - Make a CON roll at +2 to avoid catching something relatively annoying (A 'cold', mild food poisoning, etc.)

 

2) Exposure to an actual disease that is relatively contagious - make a CON roll to avoid it.

 

3) Exposure to a highly contagious disease - make a CON roll at -2 to avoid it.

 

Of course Life Support - Immunity to X would override this, but for the rest of us it would break down to something like:

 

Alec the Average (CON 10) is travelling with Steve the Stout (CON 18).

They attempt to steal their evening meal and wind up in the King's Dungeon.

 

After a cold, wet, couple of days,

Alec checks for ill effects ( 13 or less, rolls 11, he is okay).

Steve also checks ( 15 or less, rolls 9, okay).

 

On the third day another prisoner is tossed in with them, Philo the Phlegmy. Philo is nursing a bad cold, as usual.

 

To see if they catch it:

Alec checks ( 11 or less, rolls 10, he is okay).

Steve also checks ( 13 or less, rolls 11, also okay).

 

As they are released the next day, they celebrate by seeking the charms of Typhoid Terri, the local 'hostess'. She is carrying something a bit worse than a cold.

Steve also checks ( 11 or less, rolls 11, okay).

Alec checks ( 9 or less, rolls 12, oops).

Alec may have some explaining to do when he visits his local cleric.

 

We would also need a few examples of everyday diseases and their effects and duration, but the whole thing should not take up more than a sidebar or two.

 

By the way, if Steve Long has already done this, sorry for wasting everyone's time.

 

KA

[Herolover]

Originally posted by Steve

Well, if his VPP was 0-Phase, I'd agree with you on the Dispel issue. As it is written though, it takes time, likely a turn or more, for him to do anything with his pool, even with his skill roll. If he is hit with some disease-based attack that is fast-acting and deadly, it looks like he's toast.

 

Your point on his CON raises an interesting notion. At what CON point do you get an effective immunity to such things as colds and ordinary illnesses without buying an equivalent level of Life Support? Does a high CON offer such protection as a minor side effect?

 

I feel a a high CON should offer protection against diseases as a minor side effect.

 

However, it appears that the way many diseases are "built" using game mechanics that a high CON offers NO protection against. Of what I have seen most diseases are built as various drains, attacks, or other esoteric powers and against these a high CON offers little protection though a high CON can extend the onset of the illness to the point that it takes longer to effect the character (for CON drains atleast).

 

In games where disease are built using powers a high CON offers little protection it would appear. However, in heroic games where a CON roll might be used to avoid an infection a high CON does offer protection against diseases.

 

This is one area of the HERO system that appears to be vague. If diseases are built as powers they should require the victim to make a CON roll or otherwise consider the victims CON and I haven't seen many diseases made up that do this. (Or atleast I have missed them.)

[levi]

In the tradition of Mental Defense getting a bonus of EGO/5. I am willing to give Power Defense a bonus of CON/5 in those situations (Drains/Transfers with the poison & disease special effects)

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Steve

If he is hit with some disease-based attack that is fast-acting and deadly, it looks like he's toast.

Nonsense. No disease acts that quickly, even in the comics. If it's that fast, it's a toxin. As long as you play the special effect of both Telios' Powers and a disease-based attack, he'll still be just fine.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Nonsense. No disease acts that quickly, even in the comics. If it's that fast, it's a toxin. As long as you play the special effect of both Telios' Powers and a disease-based attack, he'll still be just fine.

 

Well, I have seen such a disease in the comics. Adam Warren's Dirty Pair, in the Biohazards graphic novel, were almost caught by some designer biowarfare agent called "hyper gangrene" that seemed to melt the flesh right off some guys they were fighting.

 

This was the sort of thing I was thinking of. One could picture Teleios feverishly (pardon the pun) working up a cure in his lab for something he was infected with before it kills him. Hmm, could Teleios create a virus that not even he could cure? With Difficult to Dispel of a few levels, I bet he could.

[Tech]

Teleios may be 'perfect' gene-wise but not in the picture-wise. He looks like someone with a 10 Com at best. Hardly the physique of a 'perfect man'.

 

There, I said it. I feel better.

[TheEmerged]

/* steps up to bat for his "No Prize"

 

Teleios can't have immunity to disease for a simple reason: his VPP operates by using retroviruses to alter his RNA. If he were immune to disease, his powers wouldn't work.

[Morningstar]

I am also very suprised that he doesnt have Life Support -Immortality, with the disadvantage of must have access to biolab for cloning. I notice that most robot types do not have immortality as well. Seems odd that mechanon doesn't have to pay the points to avoid aging, or that he does age would be even more odd.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Morningstar

I am also very suprised that he doesnt have Life Support -Immortality, with the disadvantage of must have access to biolab for cloning. I notice that most robot types do not have immortality as well. Seems odd that mechanon doesn't have to pay the points to avoid aging, or that he does age would be even more odd.

 

A geriatric Mechanon would be an interesting sight, all right.

 

As to Teleios, an argument could be made for other things that he is lacking on the Life Support front, like reduced need for sleep from having perfect brain chemistry, or enhanced breath holding ability due to hyper-efficient lungs.

[Hermit]

On a related note, does anyone actually 'get' LS: Immune to Aging? One complaint I've heard is that unless your game is going to span centuries, there is no practical benefit to it.

 

I try to balance this out by having it make you less affected by temporal SFX attacks, but I confess that's not much to counter it.

[CrosshairCollie]

I do if my character concept requires it ... all my Robots have full life support.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Hermit

On a related note, does anyone actually 'get' LS: Immune to Aging? One complaint I've heard is that unless your game is going to span centuries, there is no practical benefit to it.

 

I try to balance this out by having it make you less affected by temporal SFX attacks, but I confess that's not much to counter it.

 

I've got a heroine who has full Life Support. The Immune To Aging aspect has already come into play more than once. In a game I was in, a quack genius created a temporary aging ray to rob places to further his scientific experiments in physics. After meeting him, the police showed up and zappo, two old guys 80 yrs old. He then turned on the heroes. My heroines jumped in the way of one of blasts to save a teammate and wasn't bothered.

 

In a different game, one with very scary consequences, Menton (who's still working for Dr. D in the campaign) kidnapped her to help the Dr to possibly help his age problem. Menton fought the heroes while in a machine, some of her power got sapped to aid him. Well, the heroes stopped the machine but not before the Dr actually got some of his youth back, but not alot. He commented aloud, "Strange. The machine should have killed her or at least aged her." With some pondering, I'm sure Dr. D will want to examine her to find out why she's still alive and still young, possibly a cure for his aging problem! That's my guess at any rate and it's scary to possibly have a hunted like that. Real scary.

 

A good GM can take even a little power like 'Immune To Aging' and use it.

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie

I do if my character concept requires it ... all my Robots have full life support.

 

Except that that way, no parts can break down, and the Robot can still be active thousands of years in the future.

 

Hate to have bought an Extended Warranty on that puppy.

 

Each mechanon body is only going to last a short period of time, and then, he has to build a new one. No need to worry about the effects of time on it. It just ain't going to be around that long.

 

D

[Tech]

Originally posted by misterdeath

Except that that way, no parts can break down, and the Robot can still be active thousands of years in the future.

 

Hate to have bought an Extended Warranty on that puppy.

 

Each mechanon body is only going to last a short period of time, and then, he has to build a new one. No need to worry about the effects of time on it. It just ain't going to be around that long.D

 

Don't forget Mechanon doesn't think rationally. 'Course, he doesn't think at all but that's off the topic. Mechanon would want to be perfect, including being to be activated years, decades, etc., later to possibly take into account any and all situations. Imagine that a team finally destroys Mechanon. A year later, Mechanon shows up, having been in a deactivated status and wants revenge on those who wasted him. Boy, those boss-type villains just don't stay dead, do they?

[Blackjack]

Originally posted by Hermit

On a related note, does anyone actually 'get' LS: Immune to Aging? One complaint I've heard is that unless your game is going to span centuries, there is no practical benefit to it.

 

A good point. There are several Immortal characters in the various games I'm involved in. I've seen a number of Drains with an "accelerate aging" SPX - obviously Immortal characters would be immune. GM's can use it as a plot seed: see the Cateran character sheet in CKC, or perhaps an old (really old) friend (or enemy) of the PC shows up...

[TheEmerged]

What, nobody was thrilled with my answer?

 

As for "unaging", you'd better believe it comes up. NND's are wonderful things

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

What, nobody was thrilled with my answer?

 

As for "unaging", you'd better believe it comes up. NND's are wonderful things

 

Actually, I think your answer killed that part of the topic it was so good.

 

 

D

[Peregrine]

I'm wondering why Teleios hasn't given himself mental powers yet. Surely he's aware of the pioneering work of Dr. Sebastian Poe? Or does Teleios suffer from NIH Syndrome?