how to make this power

[steph]

one of my friend want to build a power like this: the spirit or soul of the player make a jump out of is body to take another body and the soul of the victim have to go in the body of the player.... a kind of switch body.....

hope i am clear

excuse my english

stef the french canadian

[Onyxclaw]

Re: how to make this power

 

you could try mental transform, his mind to mine, with the side effect mental transform my mind to his. Or you could link the two powers together. both with the special effect of him actually "switching bodies" with his enemy.

 

But I'm not sure how to build it so that you can switch back automatically. Eventually they would heal back the stat and revert to the way they were...but a GM could over rule that, they could also let you turn back or retain the power when in the other person's body.

 

dunno, tjhat's my guess.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: how to make this power

 

I'd suggest using a combination of Duplication... the kind where you can create an astral projection of yourself... or was that a different Power? Sorry, I usually run sci-fi, and it's escaping me at the moment. Anyway, that one Power that allows you to astrally project.

 

Then combine that with some sort of Mind Control.

 

I'll look this up later, and see if I can come up with something more concrete for you.

[Sociotard]

Re: how to make this power

 

I usually call this a kind of "Mind Control".

 

Question: when the character takes over another character, does the characters original body get left behind, and does it become useless? If it leaves behind a helpless character, give it the limitation "Concentration, 0 DCV"

 

I found some other threads for you

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3857&highlight=posessed

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22043&highlight=mind+control+desolidification

and look for Jethro

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: how to make this power

 

You could do it as duplication, with the duplicate having MC or Mental Transform. That's what i think'd be good

[Rickster]

Re: how to make this power

 

Hi there...I'm the french canadian's friend who actually asked him about this power. Let me give you all the precision needed:

 

The setting is quite simple: a character, having spent is whole life meditating on the value of mind over body, has unlucked a terrible power, which is to be able to switch his mind AND spirit from his body to a new body, and vice-versa ( the victim see himself dragged from his body, and forced into a new body, which is the caster body). When the switch is done, the transformation will be permanent. There is no going back possible, unless the caster wish it.

 

The consequences of using this power would be quite potent:

1) The caster will gain a virtually immortal life, always having a new body to hold his mind and spirit.

2) The casting could change his body with a potential nemesis who is hunting him, so that the hunter become the hunted.

3) Potentially, the caster can cause great disruption in a particular region if he (unwisely) begin to switch from one body to the other.

 

Of course, I'm looking forward to limit this power:

1) Some kind of ritual could be necessary prior to the transformation.

2) The new body will age dramatically fast, like 50 years of aging in a 1 year period!

3) The new body will never grant the ability the victim possessed prior to the transformation (e.g. if the victim was a great swordman, the caster will not "unlock" a new sword skill or improve an existing skill)

and so forth...

 

What do you suggest...?

[prestidigitator]

Re: how to make this power

 

Hi there...I'm the french canadian's friend who actually asked him about this power. Let me give you all the precision needed:

 

The setting is quite simple: a character, having spent is whole life meditating on the value of mind over body, has unlucked a terrible power, which is to be able to switch his mind AND spirit from his body to a new body, and vice-versa ( the victim see himself dragged from his body, and forced into a new body, which is the caster body). When the switch is done, the transformation will be permanent. There is no going back possible, unless the caster wish it.

 

The consequences of using this power would be quite potent:

1) The caster will gain a virtually immortal life, always having a new body to hold his mind and spirit.

2) The casting could change his body with a potential nemesis who is hunting him, so that the hunter become the hunted.

3) Potentially, the caster can cause great disruption in a particular region if he (unwisely) begin to switch from one body to the other.

 

Of course, I'm looking forward to limit this power:

1) Some kind of ritual could be necessary prior to the transformation.

2) The new body will age dramatically fast, like 50 years of aging in a 1 year period!

3) The new body will never grant the ability the victim possessed prior to the transformation (e.g. if the victim was a great swordman, the caster will not "unlock" a new sword skill or improve an existing skill)

and so forth...

 

What do you suggest...?

This actually sounds to me like a (physical) Transform that affects both the character and the target simultaneously (could be Major, but it almost sounds like a Minor, as the only immediately detrimental effects might be that the target ages a bit). You could either build it as such, or you could use a Persistent Shapeshift Linked to the Transform. The GM could also use it for justification to move around some Character Points betwen physical characteristics and spend Experience Points as you become, "used to the new body." You could base it on BOECV if you want, and possibly Link in Teleport(s) of some kind if you really want to cover the fact that the characters switch locations as well as physical appearence.

 

You should also buy Life Support: Immortal with either a Limitation or, probably more appropriately, a Physical Limitation or some other Character Disadvantage that makes it necessary for the character to switch bodies to avoid aging and dying.

 

EDIT: BTW, the reversal for the Trasform should probably be the target using a similar or other appropriate, "mental" Power on the character.

[Dr Divago]

Re: how to make this power

 

Hi there...I'm the french canadian's friend who actually asked him about this power. Let me give you all the precision needed:

i think you can build this like a Transform of some sort

O maybe: a multiform or shapeshift permanent, with limitation like "can change shape only to emulate victim's shape".

This linked to a major Transofrmation to transform victim in you...

 

i know, is not too much, but maybe a good starting point...

[fredrik_nilsson]

Re: how to make this power

 

I'd do it with a Summon, where both characters' bodies where focis. Sort of like when you create zombies.

[Frenchman]

Re: how to make this power

 

Multiform, and a linked Multiform, usable as attack. You turn into him (with some extra powers, such as your mental characteristics, your knowledges, your mind-based powers, and, of course, your multiform.) And he turns into you. You would have to agree with your GM how many points to build the multiform on (probly a lot, somewhere around 2x starting values)

[SatinKitty]

Re: how to make this power

 

Hi Everyone:

 

The Wild Cards series edited by George RR Martin did a whole series of books on a gang of teenagers with this power. They were called the Jumpers. Here is my humble opinion of the whole series: They would take over someone's body then use it to commit horrible crimes, using any powers the victim had while the victim was helpless in the teen gangbanger's body, then switch back and run away, leaving the victim to face the consequences. Once, one of them drank a bottle of Drano before switching the victim back. A few times, they made the victim commit suicide. One victim they made murder her own Father, who had been a continuing character throughout the series. If they were in a generous mood, they might merely take a night on the town courtesy of a victim's credit card.

 

Then they got the idea of finding the ugliest, most deformed people they could and blackmailing the rich, beautiful people into paying fortunes to keep their own bodies. The gang members got rich quick.

 

As this is a family board I won't go into what the leader of the Jumpers did to his hated Grandfather once he got the Grandfather into a pretty sixteen-year-old girl's body.

 

Both my husband and I thought this was George RR Martin's gang's weakest storyline. One Jumper hiding in the shadows might have had a chance, but a whole gang of them rampaging through the city ? Uh-uh.

 

These books are out of print now, but you might be able to find them on Amazon. My advice? Don't waste your money.

[Tasha]

Re: how to make this power

 

I agree with the people that this is best done with a transformation attack. Since the ritual takes awhile I would suggest making the Transform Cumulative so you don't have to purchase so many dice of effect.

 

for the aging (esp if the character keeps jumping from body to body) just purchase a Disadvantage for the character Physical Limitation Rapid aging, Ages 10 years per month.

 

Tasha

[Mister E]

Re: how to make this power

 

(The following is paraphrased from page 228 of 5er)

 

There are 3 Traits to be considered when using Transformation: Body, Mind, and Spirit.

 

Body is the target's physical body or substance.

 

Mind is the target's sentience, intellect, self-awareness, and the knowledge he/she possesses.

 

Spirit is the target's soul, spiritual aspects/qualities, and personality.

 

A single Transform can only affect one of these 3 traits. To Transform more than one trait, a character must buy two or more Linked Transforms.

 

 

The way I see it, four things are happening when this character switches bodies with his victoms: The victom's mind is transformed into the attacker's mind, with the side effect that the attacker's mind is transformed into the victom's mind; and, the victom's soul is transformed into the attack's soul, with the side effect that the attacker's soul is transformed into the victom's soul.

 

I would build the power like this, if I wanted it to be an "all or nothing" type attack that would work on just about anyone who had an EGO and/or PRE of up to 30. I'm using the Standard Effect rule (page 104, 5er) for simplicity:

 

Body Thief: Major Mental Transform 20d6 (Standard Effect: 60 EGO Damage) (target's mind into attacker's mind, healed back only by re-use of this Power, or by simular methods), Based On Ego Combat Value(+1), Works Against EGO, Not BODY (+1/4)(675 Active Points); All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target (Sentient Beings; -1/4), Side Effect (character's mind is transformed into target's mind by a Major Mental Transform 20d6; Side Effect occures automatically whenever Power is used successfully, and cannot be resisted; -2). (total cost: 180 points)

 

Plus:

 

Major Spirt Transform 20d6 (Standard Effect: 60 PRE Damage) (target's soul into attacker's soul, healed back only by re-use of this Power, or by simular methods), Based on Ego Combat Value (+1)(600 Active Points) ; Works Against PRE, Not BODY (-1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target (Beings With Souls; -1/4), Side Effect (character's soul is transformed into target's soul by a Major Spirit Transform 20d6; Side Effect occures automatically whenever Power is used successfully, and cannot be resisted; -2), Linked (-1/2). (total cost: 141 points).

 

Total cost: 321 points.

[transmetahuman]

Re: how to make this power

 

(The following is paraphrased from page 228 of 5er)

 

There are 3 Traits to be considered when using Transformation: Body, Mind, and Spirit.

 

Body is the target's physical body or substance.

 

Mind is the target's sentience, intellect, self-awareness, and the knowledge he/she possesses.

 

Spirit is the target's soul, spiritual aspects/qualities, and personality.

 

A single Transform can only affect one of these 3 traits. To Transform more than one trait, a character must buy two or more Linked Transforms.

 

 

The way I see it, four things are happening when this character switches bodies with his victoms: The victom's mind is transformed into the attacker's mind, with the side effect that the attacker's mind is transformed into the victom's mind; and, the victom's soul is transformed into the attack's soul, with the side effect that the attacker's soul is transformed into the victom's soul.

 

I would build the power like this, if I wanted it to be an "all or nothing" type attack that would work on just about anyone who had an EGO and/or PRE of up to 30. I'm using the Standard Effect rule (page 104, 5er) for simplicity:

 

Body Thief: Major Mental Transform 20d6 (Standard Effect: 60 EGO Damage) (target's mind into attacker's mind, healed back only by re-use of this Power, or by simular methods), Based On Ego Combat Value(+1), Works Against EGO, Not BODY (+1/4)(675 Active Points); All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target (Sentient Beings; -1/4), Side Effect (character's mind is transformed into target's mind by a Major Mental Transform 20d6; Side Effect occures automatically whenever Power is used successfully, and cannot be resisted; -2). (total cost: 180 points)

 

Plus:

 

Major Spirt Transform 20d6 (Standard Effect: 60 PRE Damage) (target's soul into attacker's soul, healed back only by re-use of this Power, or by simular methods), Based on Ego Combat Value (+1)(600 Active Points) ; Works Against PRE, Not BODY (-1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target (Beings With Souls; -1/4), Side Effect (character's soul is transformed into target's soul by a Major Spirit Transform 20d6; Side Effect occures automatically whenever Power is used successfully, and cannot be resisted; -2), Linked (-1/2). (total cost: 141 points).

 

Total cost: 321 points.

 

1) Why would "Works Against PRE, not BODY" be -1/2 instead of +1/4? I know it's cheaper, but it's not likely to be significantly higher than BODY or EGO. I'd probably just make both of them work vs EGO anyway, to simplify the power (otherwise what happens when one of the linked Transforms works, but the other doesn't?)

 

2) Since the ritual is supposed to take time, I wouldn't require All Or Nothing. That way you could use fewer dice, lowering the cost. You'll need this, because:

 

3) I'm not happy with "until the attacker decides to relent" as a retransform condition. Too munchkiny. I'd make him pay an extra +1 (on a par with Continuous, or NND) to let it work this way. And make there be *some* other way for it to happen against the attacker's will, even if it's something very rare like "Transform heals if the two are touching while the Archmage uses a VPP specialized Dispel vs. Soul Transfers successfully on them".

 

4) The character wants to bring his power along with him when he switches bodies, presumeably. One thing about the Wild Cards Jumpers that always bothered me was that they gained the victim's powers (ie the powers "went with the body", even though all powers in that world are defined as psi of some kind or another) but kept their own, too (apparently the only power that "went with the mind").

 

Depending on the GM, that might mean a Physical Transform in addition to the others (and a Physical Transform would definitely be needed to add on the increased aging bit, even though it's a Disadvantage). I'd let it be part of the Mental Transform(*), but either way, it's adding a power, so by 5er rules you'll need to do extra damage - probably a lot of extra damage - with the Transform. This also applies to any mental stats that get raised, and any skills that transfer (which I'd rule was "all of them"). So you're going to need that standard cumulative effect.

 

I'd replace the aging side effect with something more mental or spiritual, too. Otherwise you'll have that same "what happens if the physical transform works but not the mental/spiritual" question that was the reason I suggested making them both against EGO, plus being that much more expensive to model a disadvantage.

 

And clearly define which of a character's traits are mental/spiritual, and which are physical, in general terms. Is that super's Firy Aura of Infernal Malice a mental, spiritual, or physical trait? You'll need to know if you hop into his body...

 

 

 

(*) Actually I replaced the Physical/Mental/Spiritual Transforms framework with Physical/Mental/Supernatural, with Supernatural referring to spells/enchantments, supernatural/psi powers (which is most of them that don't derive from permanent physical changes), luck/unluck, "magicky" Disads, and anything else which doesn't clearly fall into one of the other two classes. But that's just me.

 

P.S. And I really, really like the Wild Cards series.

[prestidigitator]

Re: how to make this power

 

(The following is paraphrased from page 228 of 5er)

 

There are 3 Traits to be considered when using Transformation: Body, Mind, and Spirit.

 

Body is the target's physical body or substance.

 

Mind is the target's sentience, intellect, self-awareness, and the knowledge he/she possesses.

 

Spirit is the target's soul, spiritual aspects/qualities, and personality.

 

A single Transform can only affect one of these 3 traits. To Transform more than one trait, a character must buy two or more Linked Transforms.

 

 

The way I see it, four things are happening when this character switches bodies with his victoms: The victom's mind is transformed into the attacker's mind, with the side effect that the attacker's mind is transformed into the victom's mind; and, the victom's soul is transformed into the attack's soul, with the side effect that the attacker's soul is transformed into the victom's soul.

 

I would build the power like this, if I wanted it to be an "all or nothing" type attack that would work on just about anyone who had an EGO and/or PRE of up to 30. I'm using the Standard Effect rule (page 104, 5er) for simplicity:

 

Body Thief: Major Mental Transform 20d6 (Standard Effect: 60 EGO Damage) (target's mind into attacker's mind, healed back only by re-use of this Power, or by simular methods), Based On Ego Combat Value(+1), Works Against EGO, Not BODY (+1/4)(675 Active Points); All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target (Sentient Beings; -1/4), Side Effect (character's mind is transformed into target's mind by a Major Mental Transform 20d6; Side Effect occures automatically whenever Power is used successfully, and cannot be resisted; -2). (total cost: 180 points)

 

Plus:

 

Major Spirt Transform 20d6 (Standard Effect: 60 PRE Damage) (target's soul into attacker's soul, healed back only by re-use of this Power, or by simular methods), Based on Ego Combat Value (+1)(600 Active Points) ; Works Against PRE, Not BODY (-1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target (Beings With Souls; -1/4), Side Effect (character's soul is transformed into target's soul by a Major Spirit Transform 20d6; Side Effect occures automatically whenever Power is used successfully, and cannot be resisted; -2), Linked (-1/2). (total cost: 141 points).

 

Total cost: 321 points.

 

From the description it sounds as if the only real things that change are the characters' appearences and possibly some physical traits. As in: I, "jump into your body," and retain all my mental and spiritual traits, Skills, Powers, etc.; you, "jump into my body," and retain all your metal and spiritual traits, Skills, Powers, etc.

 

So why Transform two aspects with Major Transforms when you can simply Transform the third aspect with a Cosmetic Transform and switch the characters' locations? Sure, you might have to wing the clothing and equipment thing; so I suppose you could make it a Minor Transform instead of a Cosmetic one. Then a little Teleportation (probably with Invisible Power Effects) can be thrown into the mix if you don't want the Transform (plus possible Shapeshift) to handle the switching locations part.

[Mister E]

Re: how to make this power

 

1) Why would "Works Against PRE' date=' not BODY" be -1/2 instead of +1/4? I know it's cheaper, but it's not likely to be significantly higher than BODY or EGO. I'd probably just make both of them work vs EGO anyway, to simplify the power (otherwise what happens when one of the linked Transforms works, but the other doesn't?)[/quote']The Book says PRE is likely to be higher, and is cheaper. I just built this the way they, in their infinite wisdom and HERO System experience, suggested. Plus, it seems reasonable to me.

 

2) Since the ritual is supposed to take time, I wouldn't require All Or Nothing. That way you could use fewer dice, lowering the cost. You'll need this, because:

Sure. That's probably a good idea. I was just giving an example of a basic build. Tinker all you like, to get the exact effect you want.

 

3) I'm not happy with "until the attacker decides to relent" as a retransform condition. Too munchkiny. I'd make him pay an extra +1 (on a par with Continuous, or NND) to let it work this way. And make there be *some* other way for it to happen against the attacker's will, even if it's something very rare like "Transform heals if the two are touching while the Archmage uses a VPP specialized Dispel vs. Soul Transfers successfully on them".

Yes, that is an aspect of the build where I was forced to use a little creativity. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it's an instance power, so Continuous wouldn't be appropriate. I'm not sure NND would make a difference. As far as the idea about "Transforming heals if the two are touching...", that's cool... but I would just leave that to the GM's artisticness with the SFX of the Power. I don't think it actually needs to be build it. But why not?

[Mister E]

Re: how to make this power

 

This actually sounds to me like a (physical) Transform that affects both the character and the target simultaneously (could be Major' date=' but it almost sounds like a Minor, as the only immediately detrimental effects might be that the target ages a bit). You could either build it as such, or you could use a Persistent Shapeshift Linked to the Transform. The GM could also use it for justification to move around some Character Points betwen physical characteristics and spend Experience Points as you become, "used to the new body." You could base it on BOECV if you want, and possibly Link in Teleport(s) of some kind if you really want to cover the fact that the characters switch locations as well as physical appearence.[/quote']The reason I went with the 2 Transforms, is because it seemed to mirror the original concept better. The minds and spirits shifted locations, but the bodies stayed where they were.

 

You should also buy Life Support: Immortal with either a Limitation or, probably more appropriately, a Physical Limitation or some other Character Disadvantage that makes it necessary for the character to switch bodies to avoid aging and dying.

I totally agree. Any Powers or Limitations that are Mental or Spiritual in nature, should transfer with the Transforms.