Just Plain Unnerving

[Black Rose]

Herodom Assembled! I have a question....

 

How would you simulate -- without Mind Control (I'm really beginning to hate that power and it's all/nothing effect), someone who, without any real effort, simply makes people really uncomfortable? The SFX is someone who seems to be very obviously not playing on the same table as the rest of us; the kind of person who might start giggling, or staring, or stab you in the eye... for no reason at all. That sort of dissociation with reality tends to upset people, and it's hard to push that feeling down. Right now I'm thinking very high PRE and roleplay the hell out of it, but I'd like to see what you all come up with.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Just mess with the rules for PRE attacks, I would think. However, first, what will the effect of this unbalanced personality be on others, in general game terms? Follow the steps in FREd. If there's no real game effect... just put it in the character's concept.

 

Otherwise, work backwards from: "What does it look like?" "What does it do?" "Which Power/ Characteristic most closely resembles what I am trying to do?" Etcetera.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Herodom Assembled! I have a question....

 

How would you simulate -- without Mind Control (I'm really beginning to hate that power and it's all/nothing effect), someone who, without any real effort, simply makes people really uncomfortable? The SFX is someone who seems to be very obviously not playing on the same table as the rest of us; the kind of person who might start giggling, or staring, or stab you in the eye... for no reason at all. That sort of dissociation with reality tends to upset people, and it's hard to push that feeling down. Right now I'm thinking very high PRE and roleplay the hell out of it, but I'd like to see what you all come up with.

Distincitive Features: Uncomfortable Aura (Extreme)

[Black Rose]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Just mess with the rules for PRE attacks' date=' I would think. However, first, what will the [i']effect[/i] of this unbalanced personality be on others, in general game terms? Follow the steps in FREd. If there's no real game effect... just put it in the character's concept.

Well, as far as in-combat effects, I'd say slim to none. Someone staring at you like they can see through your head isn't too bothering when you're fighting. Out of combat, however, is a different story. The effect I want is going to be hard to explain; something almost like a PRE Damage Shield, where people are always getting weirded out and pausing for just a moment, trying to figure out why this person isn't acting like anyone sane would.

 

Honestly, I've been reading HP fic (shhhh... don't tell anyone), and the character of Luna Lovegood in this particular fic has been... well... touched. A lot. She's really not even half there. At times she almost seems stoned off her bum. But when she talks, it's like she's not only not on the same page as everyone else, she's reading out of an entirely different book. But then she'll come out with something that strikes to the heart of things.

 

Otherwise' date=' work backwards from: "What does it look like?" "What does it do?" "Which Power/ Characteristic most closely resembles what I am trying to do?" Etcetera.[/quote']

Well, yeah. I know that part.

 

I had thought of doing something with Change Environment, or possibly an Area Effect PRE Suppress, just to simulate the WTF feeling people seem to get off of her. Thing is, people can do stuff to her, and do (she gets rather cruelly teased quite a bit), but if they talk to her they seem to get caught up in her effect. Afterwards most seem to be annoyed by it.

 

Distincitive Features: Uncomfortable Aura (Extreme)

You know, that could be it right there. Then I'll use the points to buy PRE, only for Offensive and Defensive PRE Attacks. How much you figure that's worth - -1/4 or -1/2? You know, since it doesn't go into your PRE Skills?

[Flames]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Just mess with the rules for PRE attacks' date=' I would think. However, first, what will the [i']effect[/i] of this unbalanced personality be on others, in general game terms? Follow the steps in FREd. If there's no real game effect... just put it in the character's concept.

 

Otherwise, work backwards from: "What does it look like?" "What does it do?" "Which Power/ Characteristic most closely resembles what I am trying to do?" Etcetera.

If I had a player in a campaign who wanted to simulate this, I'd have her buy a boatload of PRE as a power with a steep limitation that it only works for making people uncomfortable, and takes at least a full phase to make the PRE attack with the extra PRE.

[MitchellS]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

You know' date=' that could be it right there. Then I'll use the points to buy PRE, only for Offensive and Defensive PRE Attacks. How much you figure that's worth - -1/4 or -1/2? You know, since it doesn't go into your PRE Skills?[/quote']

The skills part, for another thread, seems to only be worth -1/4.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

I've also used change environment for things like this.... creating a mood/feeling around them.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

You know' date=' that could be it right there. Then I'll use the points to buy PRE, only for Offensive and Defensive PRE Attacks. How much you figure that's worth - -1/4 or -1/2? You know, since it doesn't go into your PRE Skills?[/quote']

 

In published books, PRE Offensive Only (i.e. only for Presence Attacks, and no other use) is a -1/2 Lim. Defensive Only (only to resist Presence Attacks) is -1.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Just wondering whether it might be worth attacking this from the other side.

 

What about the fact that she has an area effect PRE drain? It should be something that has a low effect and builds through constant exposure.

 

This would simulate that people next to her are more susceptible to any PRE attack due to their discomfort - not just from her.

 

I was going to suggest that there was also a PRE defence drain but possibly PRE defence should counteract the weirding out ability and a limitation might be that PRE defence would add to POW defence against the drain.

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Can you make the person do specific things by being unnerved, or is the reaction purely random (in which case look at 'uncontrolled' on any power you buy)? What effect does it have on combat? On skill use? Is it just a roleplay thing?

 

I think you need to answer these (and more) quuestions and the problem then becomes one of straight mechanics application. What, in essence, do you want the power to actually DO?

 

Don't forget the always appalling TRANSFORM. Probably 5/1d6, maybe 10, depending on what you want, mental transform, possibly even spiritual transform.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Just wondering whether it might be worth attacking this from the other side.

 

What about the fact that she has an area effect PRE drain? It should be something that has a low effect and builds through constant exposure.

 

This would simulate that people next to her are more susceptible to any PRE attack due to their discomfort - not just from her.

 

I was going to suggest that there was also a PRE defence drain but possibly PRE defence should counteract the weirding out ability and a limitation might be that PRE defence would add to POW defence against the drain.

 

 

Doc

 

Storming idea. Well done.

[archermoo]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Distincitive Features: Uncomfortable Aura (Extreme)

 

Assuming that you weren't looking for a specific effect and just looking for general uneasiness (i.e. "just" a roleplaying effect), I'd say SS hit it on the head.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

SuperSquirrel has it, we use this mechanic for characters in our game.

 

DF: Creepy

DF: Unnerivingly Calm

 

the main effects of things like this seem to be to set a mood for interaction with the character, and usually their a negative one.

[pinecone]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Yep or as a power build try "Positive rep" +2/2D6 "spooky" you basicly unerve folks so you get a bonus to Pres atks and or some rolls like Interrogation or maybe Seduction (person trys extra hard to please you because they are secretly terrified) likely helps with streetwise too....

[Black Rose]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

If I had a player in a campaign who wanted to simulate this' date=' I'd have her buy a boatload of PRE as a power with a steep limitation that it only works for making people uncomfortable, and takes at least a full phase to make the PRE attack with the extra PRE.[/quote']

Well, yeah, the PRE would only be usable for making people feel weirded out. The thing is, it's something she doesn't actually have to make any effort to do - in fact, it's more the other way around; she would have to make an effort to seem "normal". Heck, she'd have to make an effort to notice that people thought she wasn't acting normal.

 

 

You know' date=' that could be it right there. Then I'll use the points to buy PRE, only for Offensive and Defensive PRE Attacks. How much you figure that's worth - -1/4 or -1/2? You know, since it doesn't go into your PRE Skills?[/quote']

The skills part, for another thread, seems to only be worth -1/4.

So would that make PRE, only for Offensive/Defensive PRE Attacks worth -1/4, too? I'm not sure, but I'm leaning that way.

 

In my FH game, a player character wanted a spell to do much the same thing. This is basically what we ended up using:

 

Discomforting Environment: Change Environment 4" radius, -3 to PRE, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (37 Active Points)

Would you say the penalty to PRE counts, not only for skill rolls, but as a straight penalty to the target's PRE stat?

 

Just wondering whether it might be worth attacking this from the other side.

 

What about the fact that she has an area effect PRE drain? It should be something that has a low effect and builds through constant exposure.

 

This would simulate that people next to her are more susceptible to any PRE attack due to their discomfort - not just from her.

 

I was going to suggest that there was also a PRE defence drain but possibly PRE defence should counteract the weirding out ability and a limitation might be that PRE defence would add to POW defence against the drain.

I had been thinking of making it so that the PRE Drain would only work in relation to her, but your idea sounds much more evil. She just stands there, burbling happily like a cheerful lunatic (lunatic, get it? Luna-tic? Ha ha ha... you guys are no fun), and everyone gets more and more unnerved. Though it only seems to work if the target is paying some sort of attention to her; if they don't know she's there, it does nothing. Also, once she's gone away, people usually react poorly to having been affected; Luna is routinely teased, her things get hidden on her, and people normally avoid her after meeting her for the first time.

 

Can you make the person do specific things by being unnerved, or is the reaction purely random (in which case look at 'uncontrolled' on any power you buy)? What effect does it have on combat? On skill use? Is it just a roleplay thing?

 

I think you need to answer these (and more) quuestions and the problem then becomes one of straight mechanics application. What, in essence, do you want the power to actually DO?

 

Don't forget the always appalling TRANSFORM. Probably 5/1d6, maybe 10, depending on what you want, mental transform, possibly even spiritual transform.

She can't make people don specific things simply by unnerving them - unless you're counting making pretty certain they'll treat her like crap after. Mostly it just serves to catch people off guard; probably only the PRE+10 or +20 effect if you're going that way (throw you off your game for a phase or two). Not too much effect on combat, as she'd have to be able to engage her opponent in conversation, but I guess you could do that with a PRE Attack. I think what I need is a high PRE, both to make PRE Attacks and defend against them, but not for skill rolls, and some kind of not-in-combat simulation - probably the DF and some good roleplay.

 

As for Transform.... Please, I'd prefer to use that as little as possible. It may have been improved for 5th, but I still think it's overkill most of the time. Then again, I prefer effects that last for a while, but not for too long (one day or so).

 

SuperSquirrel has it, we use this mechanic for characters in our game.

 

DF: Creepy

DF: Unnerivingly Calm

 

the main effects of things like this seem to be to set a mood for interaction with the character, and usually their a negative one.

and

Yep or as a power build try "Positive rep" +2/2D6 "spooky" you basicly unerve folks so you get a bonus to Pres atks and or some rolls like Interrogation or maybe Seduction (person trys extra hard to please you because they are secretly terrified) likely helps with streetwise too....

I think I am going to go this route, at least partially. It makes sense to me that a person with such a strong Distinctive Features set would be able to pull people into her Rep zone pretty quickly. All they'd need to do is see her "in action" once - or hear about it - and they be hooked. Nice build, guys. I'm gonna have to look at my book more closely for this one.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

There's a promenient NPC in the campaign I'm running named Karl Bensom, AKA "The Creep". Part of his power-set is similar to what's being asked about here, so here's what I gave him.

 

#1 -- He starts with a 30 PRE, and adds +30 PRE with the "Costs END" limitation.

#2 -- To this is added a Physical Limitation, "Chance of accidentally firing off a full-power PRE attack when under stress". This costs him 3 END, obviously.

#3 -- Karl also has an AE PRE Suppress and he has "Limited Conscious Control" of (-1). He has a chance to be able to activate in on purpose, and a chance for it to go off at inconvenient moments.

#4 -- He also has a Change Environment to reduce EGO rolls (by -4). By GM fiat I've ruled that this makes people more impulsive as well.

#5 -- He also has a base 0 (zero) COM score, with an additional -10, -20, and -30 COM purchased with staggered activation rolls. By GM fiat, this roll is once per character, so if he gets the 8- roll necessary for the -30 COM that's how you're gonna see him from now on.

#6 -- Finally, he's got DF: "Creepy" to reflect the way the "bad vibes" he gives off makes him easier to spot/track.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

TheEmerged has struck a chord in my thought process...

 

Do you want this to be more of a feature of the character (kind of like Character SFX) and not a full blown power. They're creepy, it has some effects obvioulsy (good or bad..). In which case you would probably want to go the Distinctive Feature and/or Reputation Perk. Both works. He's Creepy (DF) and people do stuff to get him away (Positive Rep).]

 

Or do you want this to have some other tangible game effect, like actuall Terror and such .. in which case everyone's suggestions for various PRE, Change Enviroment, etc... are excellent ideas.

[Black Rose]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

TheEmerged has struck a chord in my thought process...

 

Do you want this to be more of a feature of the character (kind of like Character SFX) and not a full blown power. They're creepy, it has some effects obvioulsy (good or bad..). In which case you would probably want to go the Distinctive Feature and/or Reputation Perk. Both works. He's Creepy (DF) and people do stuff to get him away (Positive Rep).

 

Or do you want this to have some other tangible game effect, like actuall Terror and such .. in which case everyone's suggestions for various PRE, Change Enviroment, etc... are excellent ideas.

Bit of both, really. She's going to have the Rep/DF thing going on; should cover some of the interaction effects nicely. I think the effect could work in combat, but she'd have to be able to talk with her opponent - back and forth, not just "Eat photonic fist, scum!" "Die do-gooder!". If she could converse with her opponent, probably having to go to full dodging (or my perennial favorite, Ultimate Dodge; Desolid with lims), then the effect could work on them. It's not something she could use, then attack; in fact, I see it more as "Oh, we're in a fight? Really? When did that happen?" while people are in life-and-death struggles all around her. This girl is not playing with a full deck. She doesn't even have a deck. She has a two. Or maybe The Fool....

 

As for the effect, I see it as a steadily growing sense, by the target, that the person to whom they are speaking/watching is stark staring mad. Completely crackers. Full on wubble-wubble loony. Calm and placid for the most part, but clearly a lunatic. She has a habit of staring, unblinking, at someone for very long stretches, and then saying something totally out of left field (or frighteningly appropriate to the situation). The longer you interact, the more you realise that this person isn't doing much of anything by the same rules as everyone else, and seems almost amused by most social conventions (and certain Laws of Thermodynamics, but I'm covering those powers later).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

Bit of both' date=' really. She's going to have the Rep/DF thing going on; should cover some of the interaction effects nicely. I think the effect [b']could[/b] work in combat, but she'd have to be able to talk with her opponent - back and forth, not just "Eat photonic fist, scum!" "Die do-gooder!". If she could converse with her opponent, probably having to go to full dodging (or my perennial favorite, Ultimate Dodge; Desolid with lims), then the effect could work on them. It's not something she could use, then attack; in fact, I see it more as "Oh, we're in a fight? Really? When did that happen?" while people are in life-and-death struggles all around her. This girl is not playing with a full deck. She doesn't even have a deck. She has a two. Or maybe The Fool....

 

As for the effect, I see it as a steadily growing sense, by the target, that the person to whom they are speaking/watching is stark staring mad. Completely crackers. Full on wubble-wubble loony. Calm and placid for the most part, but clearly a lunatic. She has a habit of staring, unblinking, at someone for very long stretches, and then saying something totally out of left field (or frighteningly appropriate to the situation). The longer you interact, the more you realise that this person isn't doing much of anything by the same rules as everyone else, and seems almost amused by most social conventions (and certain Laws of Thermodynamics, but I'm covering those powers later).

 

you know, the in combat effect you describe sounds like a gigantic PRE Attack with a long set up time. +50 PRE; Att Only; Extra Time: 1 Turn possibly or more depending.

 

Any Rep or DF you have can affect things before combat and then going into combat as they realize just how Not There the character is.

[zornwil]

Re: Just Plain Unnerving

 

First, I don't think Mind Control should be considered all-or-nothing; I normally award partial effect according to its level of success up the multiple chart, I don't ask people to even target a level, just state what they're trying to do. If they get halfway up the chart, and it makes sense, they'll achieve a half-way effect.

 

Second, well, there's always Transform...

 

(Actually we have used that, Transform, for some similar things, usually coupled with a continuous uncontrolled effect or such, representing the subject's radiating aura)