Help save a campaign

[War Cry]

I'm a little lost on what to do next for my campaign. I've got a basic idea on what should happen, but I'd like some alternatives. First, the characters and players and a brief recap on the last session.

Feng the Fierce, a former slave gladiator and wulfen. Desires to be "Somebody Important" and has been working steadily towards this goal. He has managed to acquire 4 properties and a minor lordship by being a secret "go to" man for the King's Chancellor. Straight up combat monster and full blown megolamaniac. Player has a thirst for power.

Pyra, a feline fire mage. Arrogant with a touch of cowardice and greed. Ooooh, gold! My pretty! Has a wide array of useful and nasty magic, but one good solid hit can take her out of a fight. Loves to learn and expand her knowledge base. Player is smart and wily. Finds interesting ways to use spells.

Articus Raveri, an Eldrethi ("arabian" elf) Swordmaster. Has an odd blend of racial charecteristics and adopted morals. A womanizing drug addict who is the first to stand up for the downtrodden and avenge innocents who have been wronged. He's a weed whacker against lightly armored foes. Player is pretty good. Not the best fighter or greatest thinker, but certainly the most consistent with a well balanced character.

Katrina, the Black Mask, feline thief and assassin. Vain, as greedy as she is beautiful. Excellent at recon and info gathering. If she has time to set up, it's a one hit one kill. Self serving to the extreme. Player is good roleplayer, but an info hoarder. Rarely shares enough of the info he has learned with the rest of the group and this has led to more than a few bad situations for them.

Cimmerage, wood elf ranger. The character is IMO, bleh. Deadly with a bow and excellent outdoor skills. The player has a nasty habit of removing himself from the game. "I'm gonna go outside the city walls and sleep in the nearby forest, what happens?" It's gotten to the point where I'll leave him in the woods. I'm not running a second game for the loner player.

The session - put simply, I destroyed about half of the city and they took off running for the hills.

Feng, being relatively well known, managed to secure a fight in the Arena as part of the crown prince's birthday celebration. The rest of the group had bought seats and were in attendance to wager and watch the spectacle, with the exception of the wood elf, who ran off into the woods - again. Feng was getting his butt handed to him on a silver platter and managed to get entangled in a net and knocked to the ground. In honor of his birthday, the crown prince got to decide the fates of the combatants. Feng was given a thumbs down. However, his opponent freed the two of them from their chains and buried his spear in the princes chest. It was a slave rebellion, and it had sprung up all around the city. Panic ensued and our "heroes" managed to get out of the arena relatively unscathed. By this time, fires were springing up all over the place. This is where things get really bad. What was supposed to be flavor text and scenery proved to be the beginning of their undoing. The fire mage decides to toss a couple of Fireballs at buildings. The Eldrethi tries to take advantage of a woman in distress. The thief, well, she starts looting. Feng's trying to save his properties and get everyone to safety. Meanwhile, the wood elf sticks to the woods and watches the city burn, only moving to investigate the sound of beating drums. War drums. Orc war drums at that. She run's off to find her people. They're not in these woods. The character knows that, but off she goes anyway. I had to end it when they fled to Feng's estate about 3 days outside the city or I probably would've killed them off out of spite.

So, after the smoke clears and the dust settles, they will all be in deep. Very deep. Each and every one of these characters is very distinctive and stands out like a sore thumb. Bounty hunters, escaped slaves, angry nobles, and roving bands of orcs are the obvious problems. What makes this so frustrating is I felt I had no choice but to destroy this city.

There's a ton of info the players should know, but don't, simply because they never followed through on ANYTHING!

Long post and I'm tired. I'll share the "behind the scenes" info tommorrow. Nothing happens in my games without a reason. Plots within plots and all that.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

Sounds like you mopped yourself into a corner.

 

First of all, the Wood Elf Archer dude. I think I would take half an hour every fifth game session and role-play something bad happening to the character. I would then make it perfectly obvious that one or more members of the party may have been able to prevent the bad thing from happening with their own particular power/skill set. And when the guy complains that you're picking on him, look him straight in the eye and say "You betcha. This is a social event, where friends get together to game. I'm not creating a special adventure for you just because being part of the group is too much of an inconvenience for you. Get with the program." Be prepared to continue without him.

 

Now, onto campaign saving. Your characters' party needs a spin doctor. Feng was already trying to save things, so it wouldn't take too much for him to talk himself out of things. The fire mage wasn't setting the buildings on fire, she was attempting to remove key members of the slave leadership and the building fires were an unfortunate side effect. The thief was merely trying to gain further intellgence about the ringleaders of the uprising and well, you "know" how those Eldrethi are.

 

Orc drums huh? Sounds like the wood elf is going to be in for a very long night when she runs into that orc ambush.

 

Or, you could always ask the players at the next session, "Do you want to roleplay the hunting down and execution of your characters or would you rather just get onto making up the new ones who will soon be glancing up at the city walls to see the heads of those who defy the Holy Emporer (or whatever)?"

 

Another thought, give everybody an Everyman with Deduction. Lead them by the nose a few times. One of the single best pieces of advise any of the old Basic D&D game sets ever gave me was to be very obvious with clues when starting out. As time goes on, slowly reduce the amount of clues and make the players ask you for details. I've never forgotten that advise and I use it a lot. Seems to work, even with a group as clever as mine is.

 

Well there are my comments. Hope something useful comes out of it. Of course, the thought of a campaign where the characters are hounded by the imperial army and bounty hunters, all while trying to find a way to get back in the good graces of the emperor or king, might well become one of those memorable ones, where the party actually comes together as a team. Hmmmn. Any propechies the emperor/king needs to have explored, great treasures he needs found, or a nuisance that needs a small dose of killin'? A king can forgive a great deal (or at least pretend to) if the rewards are great enough and he isn't on some moral highground.

 

Wow. For some reason, I have a bunch of ways to fix this scenario and with really no detailed knowledge of the circumstances behind the scenes and those leading up to the situation, I don't know if any of them would work out.

[mangahunterd]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

I am no expert but just by reading the character descriptions I am wondering how these folks all managed to get together? Or more importantly why they stay together?

I have noticed a trend in gaming, one of which I must say I fell in to as well with my last character, where everyone wants to be a brooding loner. The problem with that is loners do not work well in groups. They have completely opposite goals to a "Team Oriented" campaign and in reality would probably never stick around after there need had been met.

As far as how to save it I really like what nevereverend had to say. You really need to make some of the key points that they missed come back to haunt them. Take something that was mentioned in passing and use that to do something radical. For example take something like "The King is dealing harshly with those who do not pay the proper taxes on their estates." which is something that they may have overheard or spoken directly to the characters. Suddenly Feng gets a report that the Kings troops have seized his lands and he has been stripped of his title. When he protests he finds that one of the tax collectors working in his area has been dipping in to the tax funds so his share of taxes were not actually paid. You can spin this in several directions, was it just that the tax collector was greedy? Was he bribed by another noble who wanted Feng's land? Was he set up by the gladiators guild to try to coax him back to the ring to make money for them? The key is to punish the players to an extent to get them to start paying more attention to the story, otherwise it will just wind up as a hackfest which is something I am sure you do not want.

As for the Ranger who wanders off... well if I were in your situation I would probably put them in an unwinnable situation and let the chips fall as they may. Though it wasn't intended (we had a character roll back to back 20's when he was scouting.. back when we still played d20) a prominent fighter in the party was exploring a sewer after he had been baited in to it. He stumbled on this room that was basically the throne room for a local vampire lord/sorcerer..... he fought bravely for a little while but eventually was overcome and never heard from again.. It really pissed the player off but it also proved a point. The fantasy world is a dangerous place and there is ALWAYS someone bigger and badder than you..

As for your story it sounds like it is pretty cool, I just think that you need to reign the players in some. Good luck and keep us posted as to how it all shakes out!

[War Cry]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

Sounds like you mopped yourself into a corner.

 

To a certain extent. All of these events have been in the making for quite some time. As fas as I was concerned, the city was slated to be destroyed from the beginning of the campaign. All I did was step up the time table because it seemed unreasonable for the NPC's to wait around.

 

Wow. For some reason, I have a bunch of ways to fix this scenario and with really no detailed knowledge of the circumstances behind the scenes and those leading up to the situation, I don't know if any of them would work out.

 

Many of the same thoughts I have had. My problem lies in the fact that if I kill off the characters, chances are we go to a different game. I am NOT playing D20 or Rifts. Blech. My main goal was to hook a bunch of newbs into Fantasy Hero, and at that I've succeeded. The info is there, they have it, they just don't act on it.

[War Cry]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

I dont really see anything wrong with the story you are weaving. If this was my game, one of two things likely would happen in the near future.

 

The first, is have what the players should know, but dont, come out and seriously bite them on the backside.

 

That would be the orcs. And the undead. They KNEW there were orcs in the area. They KNEW where the orcs were hiding. They KNEW who was leading them and that the orc army is only going to get bigger and badder. As far as the undead, well, let's just say that the liche who has been using the orcs is also a hunted.

 

The second is, if the situation is viable, have an NPC arrive who is familiar with the characters and simply assumes that they know something about whatever plotpoints they may have missed.

 

Set that up. They were a few NPC's in the city who I felt had traits that would see them through the chaos alive. One is an old man ranger, who has tangled with the liche in the past. Another is his son, a sometimes thief and drug dealer and best buds with the Eldrethi. Next is an Eldrethi seamstress and the Eldrethi's current lover. The liche is her brother. Poor, poor Articus. A dwarf armorer and weaponsmith who Feng has used exclusively is probably the straightest arrow in the bunch. Finally, the last NPC is a minor enchanter who escaped from the Mage's Sancuary inside an Iron Golem. I think it's best to give him the crucial info.

 

A third thing to consider, and which is something I'd do regardless of these potential paths, is turn the dominant character traits you've identified against the characters. Exploit. Exploit. Exploit.

I've been doing this lately and it appears they may be getting a bit frustrated. Letting up would be a mistake, though.

 

Oh well, I've prattled on enough. With more campaign info, I could give better advice.

 

This city is/was corrupt. As far as the King is concerned, he's literally insane. Multiple personalities, among them a gladiator, crime lord and would be wizard. Poses zero threat to the real behind the scene players. It's the High Chancellor and Archmage that are the baddies. The high chancellor is a bit of an antique collector as has been using Feng to retrieve artifacts for his collection. He only needs one more piece and he will have all he needs to "resurrect" the city of the dead. Heisn't interested in power or commanding the undead per se, he wants them out of those ancient ruins so he can get the really valuable art and artifacts. The Archmage is the real puppet master. He helped create the liche, used his power to convince the High Chancellor to ignore this and pursue that, and incited the slave rebellion as a cover for mass murder. He used an artifact and magic using assassins to kill every mage the island sanctuary, elevating himself to Demiurge. Pyra is/was his apprentice. The liche is a puppet, but the players believe he is the big bad guy. They've tangled with this guy and his minions since the game started. He possesses a matching artifact to the arch mages. Whoever can possess both at once will have control over vast necromantic power. They players know the liche has one, they don't know the archmage has the other. To really complicate matters, the non-human races are gathering at Demon's Cleft (blatantly stolen from the Western Shores) adn there is a blind wulfen prophet who sporadicly makes himself visible to Feng, sharing cryptic prophecies. I might let the archmage reveal his hand now, using his magic to create an illusion to speak with the party and rub their noses in how they have been used. Maybe even send some of the royal guard out looking for them because the high chancellor is "concerned" about Feng's safety.

 

By the way, I dont think you are in a bad place at all. Really, with the destruction of the city and ensuing chaos, and all the other immediate dangers you mentioned, you have a pretty decent set of avenue down which you can take your campaign

 

-nevereverend

 

Thanks. I can do this, I just wanted feedback from others on the best approach.

[War Cry]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

I am no expert but just by reading the character descriptions I am wondering how these folks all managed to get together? Or more importantly why they stay together?

 

Heh. I'm the newb to the group. They are a bunch of D&D and Rifts players. They heard throught the grapevine that I'm supposedly a good GM and asked me to run. I introduced them to Fantasy Hero and let them make what they wanted for characters (within certain limits, of course) and what was supposed to be a few introducory games has turned into a full blown campaign. Oops. I think the reason they stick together is not a single one of them is human, and they are in a human dominated part of the world. They are outsiders and for the most part, have been treated as such. Them against the world, I suppose.

 

Thanks all for the input. Gotta run now, but I'll check in tonight.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

One thing I'd think about is: What kind of game do your players want to play?

 

If they want to play a "pursued by bounty hunters" game -- great!

 

Sounds like maybe they don't want to play the mystery/conspiracy/politics game that you've set up. From your description (fireballing houses and raping women) they might be looking for a little good ol' fashioned constructive mayhem. In that case, just send 'em into the woods to kill monsters for a while. Maybe they can get back into the king's graces by defeating some savage beast that's been raiding farms and villages. Or, have them become the leaders of a rag-tag group of refugees who are alternately fleeing from/fighting the Ork raiders.

 

The point is, communication with your players is key. Ask them what they want to do -- what do they expect the campaign to be like. Then use that as a springboard for adventures. Don't overlook your greatest asset -- the players' imaginations.

 

Bill.

[Outsider]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

I am no expert but just by reading the character descriptions I am wondering how these folks all managed to get together?

 

I will comment on this too, as it is a problem I've encountered before while GMing.

 

There usually isnt really any reason for them to stick together, even if you can come up with a reason for them to get together initially.

 

One way I solved this was was by making the characters all take a similar motivation. In one game, all the characters were required to be patriots for a particular country, who had accepted roles as members of a team assigned to perform long range/largely independent actions that would benefit the country.

 

Another, less restrictive option that I have been thinking of is to require each PC to have strong (positive) connections of some sort to at least two of the other PCs. Just what the connections are is up to them, but they have to be strong enough that the character will not abandon the others without some great cause.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

Some further thoughts...

 

Sometimes, things that seem as transparent as glass to a GM are completely opaque to players. Sometimes we have to spoon-feed the clues to them. I know, I hate doing it too -- my players should be smart enough to catch all the clues and separate them from the red-herrings. But in the real world, that just ain't so.

 

Some ways I've found to get around this are to give a list of clues to the players after a set amount of time has passed. "OK, here's what you know. The Duke's wife is missing. The duchess is the king's sister, and the two of them are very close. The Duke has a summer home in the mountains that no one has visited in a generation. The Duke wants the King to grant him the realm of Wynterholme, which is near the Ork-lands. The Duke has an Ork sorcerer as his closest advisor. The king has promised a rich reward to anyone who finds his sister, the duchess, and brings her back alive."

 

If that doesn't get your Players salivating for adventure, nothing will.

 

Second random thought: Sometimes players just aren't up for politics. I introduced a political plot to my group (intelligent roleplayers all), and they ran for the hills. So I shrugged and started tossing undead at them, which made them happy. The civil war is still brewing in their hometown, but they don't have (or want) any part in it. Eventually, their disinterest might pop back up and bite 'em on the ***, but for now they're having fun.

 

HTH!

 

Bill.

[Heroman]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

Overall, does not sound too unsalvagable.

 

How many days have the fled? The elf with them or still running?

If they are already at the estate

If they have been away 3 days, it is likely some dust has settled and their ability to affect the uprising is gone. It could be that the slaves overran the government and have taken control. It could be that the government got back into control and is now squashing the remaining slaves. Your decision for what the city will be like. If it is part of a larger kingdom, the slaves will likely loot as much as they can and then flee before neighboring lands come to reclaim. It would likely be better for the group if the slaves were doing good; likely less people alive who witnessed many of the illicit activities.

If they are still fleeing, you could just overview it and be at the same spot as above.

Likely, the only one with an issue is Feng. He lost the match and may feel compelled to regain some honor to keep himself and his estates alive. Easiest thing would be to gather up his friends and make a brute squad. Turn in a few slaves to the guards and (especially if they are swamped) maybe get special sanction to hunt down the slaves. This would also allow the not-so-nice allies of his to vent a little, with approval from the government

If he and the others can regain some critical structure which was taken over, he could probably get his pardon and get back some stability.

 

When I said 'only one with an issue is Feng' I of course meant Feng and scaredy elf.

The forest is teeming with orcs, you see. The slave uprising was not accidental with their arrival. They staged it in fact. Orc spies have been stirring up things for a while and it cumulted. Feng should also not feel too bad about the arena either. His opponent, you see, was no ordinary fighter. Instead he was greatly skilled orc warrior, disgused (some sort of cosmetic or magical means) to look humanish so he could get close enough to the prince during the battle to kill him. The group could realise something is amiss during their escape. During the escape, the opponent was injured. Feng, feeling a bit in debt since his life was saved, dragged the guy along. At some point during the inspection his real race is revealed. Someone (Articus maybe) faintly hears the drums far off and with any luck (or maybe more hints from the NPC peons) they realize an orc seige is coming.

 

Cimmerage, has his own problems. He stumbles across a large part of the orc army's camp. They are stripping the lands to make their siege equipment and to feed the troops. They are devistating the land without care.

If he goes on to his homeland elves (not sure how long it would take), they will be rightly pissed off at him. Leaving a forest to be desecrated by the orcs is likely a great atrocity. Perhaps his is even stripped of his ranger title for running like a coward and must make amends before they allow him to return. He could be forced to return to that city to warn them (lesser of 2 evils).

If instead he stays, perhaps repeated hammering into his head that he alone cannot do too much will defragment the group.

 

Of course, you do have the longer term issue. Why the heck do these people stay together? The leechers must find some value from the stronger ones and the stronger ones must have a use for the leechers.

Some ideas.

Ranger boy. It could be that the PC is not comfortable in the city. Maybe do some more woodland missions that he is better in. Then when they go tot he city, he would be more oblidged to stay around and help the group as they helped him in the woods.

Assassin. Sigh, not much to do about info horders. Perhaps, after giving some brute squad help or maybe even recruitment from a in city thief, this person gets on the government payroll. Still allowed to freelance, but is in service more along the line of Feng.

Pyra. You know, most enlightened cities where the pretty scrolls of magical power are located do not take kindly to building fireball chucking mages. Perhaps there is something juice they would love to have but cannot because of that reputation.

 

Another rambly idea. The group cowards at Feng's place for a while. Eventually a troop from the city comes. Feng and the others (possibly identified as his cohorts) must venture into hostile territory, follwing the orc band who looted the city to return an item of power.

 

If it were not for Feng's land investment, I would move the group away from this city.

[Old Man]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

It seems to me that the intersection of the motivations between the goody-goodies and the greedy ones would be to stage a raid against whoever is bankrolling the orc army. (Naturally that person would be somewhere deep in the woods to keep the damn wood elf from wandering off.) The playerkilling would start when the group finds the hoard--should they keep it for themselves or put it toward rebuilding the city? And it should not be clear at first why the bankroller is motivated to launch an orc invasion... I'd try to come up with a more interesting reason than mere territorial greed.

 

Anyway, that's the pull. The push is pursuit by the orcs, or bounty hunters, or whatever hunteds they have. I would use encounters with these to try and enforce some kind of camaraderie within the group, i.e. banded together they can all save each other from each other's hunteds.

 

I'm really tempted to just have the wood elf character killed and make the guy build another character who doesn't suffer from social anxiety. I know that wouldn't really solve anything... but elves annoy me, and annoying elves annoy me more.

[CourtFool]

Punish the players!

 

Remind me never to play under any of you guys...except maybe Keyes Bill.

 

Yes, yes, lets punish the bad players for not playing the way we want them to, precious. Let's show them how our way is so much cooler than their way.

 

Bah!

 

I think you need to find out what kind of game your players want, tell them what kind of game you want to run and see if you can find a happy middle ground.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

Here is a somewhat similar thread (at least it deals with some of the same player/GM differences).

 

It seems that you are pretty disappointed about having to destroy the city. You could always do one of those classic dream-sequence type reversals (it may be cheesy, but you could probably pull it off in a relatively non-cheesy way). For example:

Rithesel the evil master illusionist wanted to control the city for a time in order to remove a very rare magical ore from the caves beneath it without the bothersome prying of others. The slave revolt and orc invasion were a huge illusion (probably MegaScaled, Area of Effect Mental Illusions if you want to get technical about it) meant to sow panic and cause the city to be abondoned.

 

Those, "killed," by the illusions are in comas (major Stun damage from the Mental Illusion) and being rounded up and imprisoned by Rithesel's minions. The only other damage done to the city is basically what was done by the PCs and the panicked populace. The funny thing is, the slaves really are free now, and sowing more confusion in the surrounding countryside, which helps keep attention off of the abandoned city and fits in with Rithesel's plan nicely.

 

The PCs, after discovering this, will have to come up with a way to thwart the evil wizard, free the prisoners, put a halt to the anarchy of the people, convince everyone that it was all a trick and they should return to the city, and heal some of the hate and socio-political mess that the whole incident has stirred up.

Alternately you could run with the whole thing and have the PCs deal with a torn and anarchy-laden countryside. There are orcs, criminals, desperate people who don't know how to survive on their own in the country, and all sorts of other crazy things to deal with. Neighbor cities/kingdoms/countries/whatever could decide to take advantage of the situation to take over, loot, or simply eliminate the threat caused by a rioting nearby countryside. If you are into this sort of scenario (at least for a while), it almost sounds like the kind of game the players want, and throwing them into survival mode could encourage a little more cooperation between them.

[Old Man]

Re: Punish the players!

 

I think you need to find out what kind of game your players want' date=' tell them what kind of game you want to run and see if you can find a happy middle ground.[/quote']

 

Exactly.

 

Unless one of those players is playing a Wood Elf, then it's okay to pick on that player's character mercilessly.

 

[prestidigitator]

Re: Punish the players!

 

Thats a load of crap. If I was punishing a player, I'd be punching them repeatedly.

 

As for punishing characters, I really don't see that happening either. It isn't punishing anyone by allowing realistic events to happen that may bring a challenge down on the PCs. All people are doing are giving ideas to a frustrated GM about how to bring a potential disconnect back under control. In many cases, very specific options have been provided based upon individual characters and their tendencies toward general types of action. No one is saying change the characters, but bring forth challenges that reflect their dominant traits.

Unfortunately players seem to view it as unfair punishment when their characters are struck with the direct ramifications of their own actions (in part because it is a roleplaying game, and the attitude that you can do anything without real consequences can be an easy one to develop). It can at times be very difficult to show even the most simple and direct cases of cause and effect for what they are when players see their characters at risk of loss (despite what I just said, players do identify with their characters, and some take things personally far too easily). Of course, it does depend on the maturity of your players. With mature ones, just about anything can happen without the players viewing it as, "GM vs. players," and the roleplaying experience can be incredibly fun and rewarding. With less mature players....

[Enforcer84]

Re: Punish the players!

 

Thats a load of crap. If I was punishing a player, I'd be punching them repeatedly.

 

As for punishing characters, I really don't see that happening either. It isn't punishing anyone by allowing realistic events to happen that may bring a challenge down on the PCs. All people are doing are giving ideas to a frustrated GM about how to bring a potential disconnect back under control. In many cases, very specific options have been provided based upon individual characters and their tendencies toward general types of action. No one is saying change the characters, but bring forth challenges that reflect their dominant traits.

yeah, besides, the players started it!

[Enforcer84]

Re: Punish the players!

 

Unfortunately players seem to view it as unfair punishment when their characters are struck with the direct ramifications of their own actions (in part because it is a roleplaying game' date=' and the attitude that you can do anything without real consequences can be an easy one to develop). It can at times be very difficult to show even the most simple and direct cases of cause and effect for what they are when players see their characters at risk of loss (despite what I just said, players do identify with their characters, and some take things personally far too easily). Of course, it does depend on the maturity of your players. With mature ones, just about anything can happen without the players viewing it as, "GM vs. players," and the roleplaying experience can be incredibly fun and rewarding. With less mature players....[/quote']

our games tend to end up "Players vs Player"

[War Cry]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

One thing I'd think about is: What kind of game do your players want to play?

 

If they want to play a "pursued by bounty hunters" game

 

The point is, communication with your players is key. Ask them what they want to do -- what do they expect the campaign to be like. Then use that as a springboard for adventures. Don't overlook your greatest asset -- the players' imaginations.

 

Bill.

 

Yeah, that went over well when it became apparant I had a campaign on my hands

ME: So what kind of game do you guys want? Hack-n-slash, Epic, Episodes?

Players 1-4: Shrug collective shoulders "We don't care"

Player 5: with mischevious gleam in his eyes "EPIC! Lord of the rings save the world kind of stuff!"

Players 1-4: "Um, yeah, that would be cool."

 

I'll mix it up. Maybe change the Chancellor around a bit, give him a guilty conscious or second thoughts on the deal. I mean, after all, he is selling out his kingdom for an art collection:eek:

[War Cry]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

Some further thoughts...

 

Sometimes, things that seem as transparent as glass to a GM are completely opaque to players. Sometimes we have to spoon-feed the clues to them. I know, I hate doing it too -- my players should be smart enough to catch all the clues and separate them from the red-herrings. But in the real world, that just ain't so.

 

Some ways I've found to get around this are to give a list of clues to the players after a set amount of time has passed.

 

HTH!

 

Bill.

 

This is the conclusion I have come to tonight. Perhaps I was spoiled by my former gaming group - those guys were the best and it was a real challenge staying one step ahead of them. Time to lower my expectations. I talked with one of the players tonight, and he is geeked. The mass destruction and armies forming already have him salivating - they just can't connect the dots. I'll have some of the NPCS fill them in on a bunch of the details that they could have and help the players put together a list of what they already know.

 

I can't believe I'm taking advice from a RABBIT! And a dead one at that!

[War Cry]

Re: Punish the players!

 

Remind me never to play under any of you guys...except maybe Keyes Bill.

 

Yes, yes, lets punish the bad players for not playing the way we want them to, precious. Let's show them how our way is so much cooler than their way.

 

Bah!

 

I think you need to find out what kind of game your players want, tell them what kind of game you want to run and see if you can find a happy middle ground.

 

Well, we do have a good game and for the most part, the players are pretty good. I have had a helluva lot of fun watching them develope a love for the system and an attachment to their characters. Overall, I think we've done a decent job of blending our styles into a decent campaign. I've let them explore the various aspects of the game and how the system works. These guys are quick when it comes to the mechanics. I'm not out to punish, just a challenge. They've had it pretty easy for a few months. I want to see how they handle a major catastrophe. If it doesn't work, I can regroup, rethink, and readjust to meet their needs.

 

On a side note, I've left my books with them to read. The grimoire recieved a cursory glance and was promptly handed back to me with the others never being opened. "Sorry, Brent, but we want to stay in the dark. We like being unsure of whether or not we can handle a situation" That's trust, man, and I don't want to break it.

[War Cry]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

 

It seems that you are pretty disappointed about having to destroy the city. You could always do one of those classic dream-sequence type reversals (it may be cheesy, but you could probably pull it off in a relatively non-cheesy way).

If you are into this sort of scenario (at least for a while), it almost sounds like the kind of game the players want, and throwing them into survival mode could encourage a little more cooperation between them.

 

I'm going to run with the whole thing happening as it did. To do otherwise would completely through off the other plotlines. Well thought out and excellent suggestion, though. I'll use it somewhere else:thumbup:

You hit the key point - cooperation. I'd like to see if the players band together now that all of their connections are out of the picture. Before, everyone was running off trying to do his own thing and relying on NPC's to get them out of a pinch. My main desire is to see if they rely on each other now, as that is all they have at the moment.

[War Cry]

Re: Punish the players!

 

Exactly.

 

Unless one of those players is playing a Wood Elf, then it's okay to pick on that player's character mercilessly.

 

 

Seconded. In 15+ years of gaming, I've yet to see a high elf or wood elf that didn't deserve such treatment. Pointy eared freaks. The orcs have it right - Elf, the other white meat.

[War Cry]

Re: Punish the players!

 

yeah' date=' besides, the players started it![/quote']

 

Don't they always? I'm glad I keep a ruler on hand. WHAP!

[Warp9]

Re: Help save a campaign

 

There's a ton of info the players should know, but don't, simply because they never followed through on ANYTHING!

Long post and I'm tired. I'll share the "behind the scenes" info tommorrow. Nothing happens in my games without a reason. Plots within plots and all that.

The bottom line is that if I wanted to be sure that the main characters follow "my plots" I'd just write a book. One of the things I like about role-playing is that I really don't know for sure what the PCs will do next.

 

From my perspective as a GM, there is nothing that any of the PCs can do which is "wrong" except for not playing in character.

 

And if I want to be sure that the PCs stick together, I just make sure that the characters are built that way (for example, I might make it so that they are all loyal members of the same military unit). But generally I don't care if they stay together or not.

 

My job is to run the world and all the NPCs, I am content to leave the actions of the PCs to the Players.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Punish the players!

 

Seconded. In 15+ years of gaming' date=' I've yet to see a high elf or wood elf that didn't deserve such treatment. Pointy eared freaks. The orcs have it right - Elf, the other white meat.[/quote']

Heh. Now what race was it and where that was purely vegetarian and considered elves vegetable matter? I can't remember.