open door spell

[Curufea]

Re: open door spell

 

The problem with Hero, in general is 2 fold-

 

1) There are always many ways of doing anything - characteristic, skill, talent, power and finally a transform if you can't think of anything

2) There are many creative players of Hero who like discussing things on the board and will suggest things just because it hasn't been talked about yet - not because it may actually be helpful

[Basil]

Re: open door spell

 

Teleportation could be modified like the FTL drives in Star Hero - Must cross intervening space (I think it's a -1/2 limitation). You could define the SFX as "appearing to open and close the door"

 

Oooo! I like. Yes, that's the way to go, IMO.

 

And, as others have said, you do have to go though the door, you can't open it and look through, if you're doing Teleport.

 

Which makes it more interesting, IMO.

[Curufea]

Re: open door spell

 

That one would be suitable for a "pass portal" spell, rather than an unlocking spell.

[Outsider]

Re: open door spell

 

If you dont like the idea of the spell operating as a skill & it actually moving tumblers and all thatl, how about you just Summon a Lockpicking demon. Slavishly loyal, huge lockpicking skill (enough that he can open any lock in 1 phase, even if it means taking a -10 or -20 to his skill roll to do it so fast), and limited that he will do nothing but open a single lock (per summoning) IF it is right by where he is summoned. The Lockpicking Demon would, of course, have funny shaped claws that worked as all the appropriate tools needed to use Lockpick skill.

 

Instead of bothering to write up such a creature, though, why not just allow Lockpicking as a straight spell with that as the special effect?

[LordGhee]

Re: open door spell

 

I have also seen tunneling and desolidification used for a pass portal spell.

 

In the last Fantasy Hero Game I was in this spring a greater Demon’s teleport special effect was that the gate and doors to the castle started to open and then the monster arrived in a blur. We knew where it was going to for we could follow the opening doors. Great effect., bad demon.

 

Well what I was pointing out that to me, is that lock picking alone is not enough. Tk can be used as a substitute for tools as Super Squirrel pointed out. But TK is inherently clumsy (229 2nd col bottom 5ER) I would in most cases require the fine manipulation adder (page 230 1st column top) be needed to work the lock (unless it was a big clumsy lockJ).

 

And bblackmoor’s spell is right on, cool in fact and thanks for the link the site looks great in info and content.

 

Is this bblackmoor’s web page? ( I have not look at it yet)

 

Oh and I think it is unwise to make a judgment call on a GM style from a post on a thread asking for help in spell creation, as the example was for illustration. () Not all players listen, cooperate and heed the advice of their Game Master. But this is for another thread.

 

And sorry Captain but what is EDM?

 

Ducking for it seems to be the thing to do.

 

 

(note to outsider my reasoning is that lockpicking is defind as a skill that is used a certain way and in "our group" since we have many GM's we like to be literalists (in gereral). Here in El Paso TX. US. twenty years ago we agreed to be literalists so that we could have a mulitpul GM world and this infulences the many groups that have split off over the years.)

[Captain Obvious]

Re: open door spell

 

And sorry Captain but what is EDM?

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement

[Killer Shrike]

Re: open door spell

 

Teleportation could be modified like the FTL drives in Star Hero - Must cross intervening space (I think it's a -1/2 limitation). You could define the SFX as "appearing to open and close the door"

Thats a flavorful idea, but actually the Limitation Must Pass Through Intervening Space is a Lim on Teleport because normally you can use TPort to teleport on the other side of doors, walls, people, and what not. Using it to represent a Power that allows you to TPort to the other side of a door is a complete negation of the very thing that makes it limiting.

 

Instead, if you want that sort of effect, just take a normal TPort and apply a partial Limitation "Only To TPort To The Other Side Of Doors", and define the SFX as "appearing to open and close door" idea you are going for here. The Lim would be worth about a -1/2, and do the same thing but is more consistent with the rules.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: open door spell

 

I was unable to see bblackmoor's spell. All I could see was the name of the spell, but there appeared to be no write-up. I don't know what happened.

 

In any event, I have no problem with the Skill-as-Spell construct. I suppose TK and Fine Manipulation should be required, just to make it complete. In fact, I might even allow *just* the Fine Work adder only, since 0 STR is more than enough to manipulate the minute pieces of a lock (unless we're talking about titan-sized locks).

 

For the Wizard Lock spell, I'd use exactly the same approach:

 

Lockpicking, (say 30- or some other impressively huge roll), (41 base), only to oppose Lockpicking rolls to unlock (-1), Other limitations to taste: Costs END, Focus, Gestures, Incantations, etc.

 

Then it works like any skill vs skill contest. If the locking wizard rolls an 11, he's made the roll by 19. The unlocking wizard needs to make the roll by at least as much to overcome the Wizard Lock. And the Lock and the Knock both scale up just like everything else in HERO.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

I was unable to see bblackmoor's spell.

 

Sorry: I did a lot of re-arranging today. It should be stable from here on out (and I'll edit my previous post):

 

http://www.westguard.org/index.php?title=Rough_Magic:Spell_-_Access_Of_The_Adept

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

I suppose TK and Fine Manipulation should be required' date=' just to make it complete. In fact, I might even allow *just* the Fine Work adder only, since 0 STR is more than enough to manipulate the minute pieces of a lock (unless we're talking about titan-sized locks).[/quote']

 

I gave the Telekinesis 15 Strength, so that it can also slide bars, lift latches, and turn wheels (even heavy or corroded ones). I also added the "Indirect" modifier, because such things tend to be on the other side of the door.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: open door spell

 

That's a good point. Although in most cases it wouldn't take 15 STR to lift a bar. How strong was the person who barred the door in the first place? Although the extra STR would be handy in some cases. But I'd probably waive the Indirect, since TK is already Indirect in most ways.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

Although in most cases it wouldn't take 15 STR to lift a bar. How strong was the person who barred the door in the first place?

 

Maybe no more than an ordinary person, but there could well have been more than one of them. It may be overkill, but I err on the safe side when making up powers. That goes for Indirect, as well.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: open door spell

 

why do I have a feeling Transform: Wood to Air would be a really nasty spell to put in the hands of an Orc shaman in a dungeon? You're trying to run away froman overhwelming number of Orcs. "Bar the door!"

 

"Door? What door??"

 

"That d--- OK, just how screwed are we?"

 

"Pretty damn screwed, sir."

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

why do I have a feeling Transform: Wood to Air would be a really nasty spell to put in the hands of an Orc shaman in a dungeon?

 

Hmm. I can't think of a rationale for "wood to air", off the top of my head. "Wood to ash", though... I can see an Orc shaman knowing that.

[TheTemplar]

Re: open door spell

 

I pity the Treants, Twig Blights, and Oak Golems that dare get in the way of the Wood to Ash caster...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

"Wood to ash"' date=' though... I can see an Orc shaman knowing that.[/quote']

 

And the reversal method is to mix the ashes with water! I can see it now... an Orc tribe that goes into business selling sacks of instant battering rams: "just add water".

[Rapier]

Re: open door spell

 

Heya!

 

I have just been thinking of how to design a adventurer-classic: the open door spell.

 

My fist thought goes in the direction of transform.

cosmetic transform (locked door into unlocked door) or do you think that this is already a minor transform?

 

How do you do this classic spell

 

Depends. Do you mean a spell to OPEN a door that is closed or some kind of knock spell where you are just unlocking it?

 

If you just want to open the door, go with a little bitty TK.

If you want to unlock the door go with either a Transform or LockPicking.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: open door spell

 

You could do Dispel Lock, but that would break it (this is explicitly stated in the description of Dispel). How about Suppress Lock? Once you reach the full Active Points of the Power, it shuts off, but the owner can turn it back on.

 

The only question is, what Power are you Suppressing? Could be the lock's BODY?

[LordGhee]

Re: open door spell

 

ohh the dispel, surpress angle. good call Chris

 

after work will look at this. Good thought!

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: open door spell

 

ohh the dispel, surpress angle. good call Chris

 

after work will look at this. Good thought!

Thanks!

 

I think I figured it out: buy it as Suppress Locksmith Skill. Think of it this way: in general, when you're trying to pick a lock, what you're really doing is rolling a contest of skill between your Lockpicking skill and the locksmith's PS: Locksmith skill. Therefore, the PS: Locksmith is the effective measure of the lock's skill at staying locked.

 

For magical locks, you need to figure out how it's staying locked, but for the super magical lockpicking spell you'd buy Suppress Lock, All Powers Of Special Effect (+2). Heck, you don't really need to come up with a specific Power, especially if you're using a VPP; just say "He put 60 points of his VPP into the Magical Lock Power, therefore to unlock it you need to Suppress 60 Active Points."

[LordGhee]

Re: open door spell

 

In considering the approach of dispel vs a locked door. You could consider the door an entangle that has a focus (the door). This could allow one to figure out a power level to dispel.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: open door spell

 

Looks like you can do Dispel Lock, which (per the rules question I asked Steve a short while ago) can be defined as merely turning it off rather than destroying it.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

Looks like you can do Dispel Lock' date=' which (per the rules question I asked Steve a short while ago) can be defined as merely turning it off rather than destroying it.[/quote']

 

I think I prefer the contested Lockpicking skill contest. There are too many ways to compute the "active points" of a lock. Its Body? The Locksmithing skill of the person who created it (adjusted for the extra time and the equipment they used)? The Strength of the lock mechanism itself? I am sure that clever players will think of several more ways to measure the lock's point cost.

 

This is an interesting idea, but it involves a can of worms I do not care to open.

[LordGhee]

Re: open door spell

 

Ask my group about the open door spell tonight. They universally declared use minor transform lowest point to get the job done. (Great minds think alikeJ). Then informed them of the lock picking skill method which started a discussion in which El Tirpon (member) confess his like of desolidification with the special effect of the door opens. Then lady darkfalcon waged “hey if point cost is not an issue then use aid give it an ego and Tk animate object self only, use mind control and make the door open itself!"

 

Which left alll laughing and impressed with the Great Lady’s logic.

 

Well the moral is there is more than one way to wag the cat in Hero.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: open door spell

 

Ask my group about the open door spell tonight. They universally declared use minor transform lowest point to get the job done.

 

Perhaps, but Transform should not be used to replace existing Powers. And personally, I think Transform should be the power of last resort. I dislike the way that the current crop of Hero writers seems to jump on Transform at the first opportunity. It's a cop-out.