combat luck

[steph]

in my fantasy game a assassin got the talent combat luck ( 3rpd 3red) he want to know if he wear a leather armor def 3 Is it ok and legal to total the talent and the armor for a total or 6 of def

stef the french canadian

hope i am clear

english not my first language

[Super Squirrel]

Re: combat luck

 

in my fantasy game a assassin got the talent combat luck ( 3rpd 3red) he want to know if he wear a leather armor def 3 Is it ok and legal to total the talent and the armor for a total or 6 of def

stef the french canadian

hope i am clear

english not my first language

It is legal.

 

Valdorian Age has a version of Combat Luck that prohibits Heavy Armor from being worn but that Combat Luck costs 5 points instead of 6 points.

[steph]

Re: combat luck

 

Do you like the valdorian age ?

stef

[Super Squirrel]

Re: combat luck

 

Do you like the valdorian age ?

stef

Love it. In my opinion it is the best official campaign setting to the Hero Game System.

[steph]

Re: combat luck

 

I have it but never read it i think i gonna take a look super squire

thank

stef

[Super Squirrel]

Re: combat luck

 

I think the Favor System is the most innovative touch to a magic system I have ever seen.

[Wilfred_Death]

Re: combat luck

 

in my fantasy game a assassin got the talent combat luck ( 3rpd 3red) he want to know if he wear a leather armor def 3 Is it ok and legal to total the talent and the armor for a total or 6 of def

stef the french canadian

hope i am clear

english not my first language

It is legal.

Valdorian Age has a version of Combat Luck that prohibits Heavy Armor from being worn but that Combat Luck costs 5 points instead of 6 points.

Sure it's legal.

I personally just refuse to allow it.

 

One of my players wanted to take this so that his Character would have armor on - in the bath tub -

 

This is a great ability for a game where the Characters swash buckle around in white shirts ( 0 DEF ).

However I find that as soon as anyone wears armor, it becomes abusive - to my way of thinking -

 

I just don't let two Armors stack together.. otherwise what happens is someone says: "I put on two suits of chainmail, that gives me 12 DEF armor right?, I'm dextrous enough to do it....."

 

If I set my campaign up so that the heaviest armor is say 8 DEF Plate, then I run the combats with weapons suited to that level, characters are not too likely to get killed, but run a risk of being hurt, and thus can 'fear' the NPC ...

 

As soon as they try to use an unlimited form of Combat Luck, their Armor ( so they claim ) would become DEF 11, 8 Pt Plate + 3 DEF COmbat Luck

 

My house rule for armor stacking is : Pick one armor as the best, add to that 1/2 the DEF of the second armor. The Result can not exceed the Limit I have already set ( in latest campaign 12 ), get encumbrance penalties for both...

 

I include Force Fields in this , otherwise the Mages can put on plate armor and soon have 16 + DEF.....

 

I also like to run a Game style where a 1 Pip HKA Knife is a threat to the average PC.....

In fact in the last session the aformentioned PC lost a duel when stabbed in the '13' with a 1 Pip HKA blade

( With STR it does D6-1 and I rolled 6 )

[prestidigitator]

Re: combat luck

 

I have been thinking of doing two things in my fantasy campaign:

1. Limit the amount of Combat Luck to 3 rPD/3 rED.
   
2. Add in a mandatory Costs End to Combat Luck (maybe not even factoring it into the cost). It will only cost 1 End, but will add in there for heavy fighters when stacked on the cost of jumping around in armor, and will do things like keep Combat Luck from being used while taking Recoveries.

[ghost-angel]

Re: combat luck

 

I need to start writing all these ideas down and compiling them into a giant Alternate System Options list.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: combat luck

 

Sure it's legal.

I personally just refuse to allow it.

 

One of my players wanted to take this so that his Character would have armor on - in the bath tub -

 

If someone were to catch a PC in the bathtub in a game I run, the first attack at least should count for Surprise, and I don't think I'd allow Combat Luck to apply in that instance (as per the guidelines under that Talent's description). As those guidelines also mention that CL "depends on a character's ability to dodge, block, or otherwise avoid damage," that player would have to come up with a good rationale as to how he can do that while sitting in the tub. And of course, standing up and getting out of a tub full of water would require at least a full Phase. Plus a successful DEX roll. At a penalty.

[incrdbil]

Re: combat luck

 

As those guidelines also mention that CL "depends on a character's ability to dodge' date=' block, or otherwise avoid damage," that player would have to come up with a [b']good[/b] rationale as to how he can do that while sitting in the tub.

 

A nice observation. Despite player fantasies, Combat Luck DOES have restrictions whihc mean it won't always be there to protect you--bathtub ambushes being a wonderful example.

[ghost-angel]

Re: combat luck

 

The only time a player can count on something being there all the time is with AlwaysOn/Inherent applied to the power ... otherwise, the GM will be able to remove it if needed.

 

Besides, it's more challenging if you can't just rely on it all ther time.

[steph]

Re: combat luck

 

what is bath tub

stef

[Super Squirrel]

Re: combat luck

 

what is bath tub

stef

A large tub for soaking and cleaning yourself in.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: combat luck

 

what is bath tub

stef

 

Une baignoire.

[Sean Waters]

Re: combat luck

 

I think something like combat luck is practically essential, given the killing attack mechanics, for some genres of Hero. It needs an eye kept on it though. There are a number of things you could perhaps keep in mind....

 

Combat luck is non-persistent so you actually need to 'turn it on' - if you were in the bathtub you would not have it on. There are no exact rules for this but generally I would not let you have an ability like this on if you were not expecting combat or actually in it.

 

'Luck based' is worth -1/2 so it should come into play quite a bit. Whilst you can justify almost anything as 'lucky' arguably you only really need your luck when you are in dire straits - so it should not be generally assumed that you have an extra 3pd/3ed armour - it only applies when you really need it, so, for instance, you might rule that attacks that would not take you out of combat (unconsciousness or stunning) do not get the benefit of combat luck. Basically it helps you NOT get taken out but is not an invisible flak jacket.

 

Another idea is to apply the defences AFTER the first point of BODY and STUN - that means that every time you are hit your combat luck will let through a minor injury, but you turn away from the bulk of it - more like 'Ha! Only a flesh wound!' I would allow this version to still reduce killing attack stun as for aomeone with resistant defences, or the ability is pretty pointless.

 

Of course the GM can always tell players they can not have combat luck, or make them buy additional limitations. No conscious control might be an appropriate one, or side effects (maybe -1 DCV - you dodge one attack but might wind up getting hit by others).

 

One other thing: you should not really allow multiple buys of this talent simply because (because of rounding) one level costs 6 points as it says in the book, but 2 levels would cost 13 points. If you DO allow multiple levels I'd make the character cost them as normal powers.

 

One other thing about this talent is that it is LUCK based, and you know what they say - never say her name. If charactcers come to RELY on their luck theya re going to be in trouble.

 

I ran a game once for Dark Champions where one of the characters had a completely invisible 10pd/10ed force field that only worked so long as he did not rely on it - so for instance, he had to waste time leaping out of the way of attacks and ducking from cover to cover - he could not just wade through a hail of lead. At the very least make the player role play combat luck. The player might KNOW the ability is on the character sheet: the PC doesn't.

[Markdoc]

Re: combat luck

 

My approach is that in superheroic genres, where people buy their defences "combat luck" is merely a special effect. You can stack anything you got.

 

So it's only really an issue for Heroic games.

 

In my Heroic games, where equipment is free, you can't stack free equipment with anything - that's part of the "real" limitation. The exceptions are that you can, of course, use your STR with a free HKA/HA and your personal PD stacks behind armour for the purposes of stun. But that's it.

 

So combat luck cannot be stacked with armour - you would get the best of whichever applied. However, if a wizard buys combat luck and a forcefield, that would stack, since the character paid points for both.

 

As an aside, in addition to combat luck (in my game, traditionally referred to as "Ha, you missed me!") we have another armour power (referred to as "it's only a scratch!")

 

This is invisible armour bought with the limitation "does not stop first point of BOD" and is bought to reflect movie-star style toughness, where (for example) the character gets hit in the face and gets a line of blood from one side of his mouth, or gets stabbed in the shoulder and bleeds, but is otherwise unimpaired. Such a character can get nickled and dimed to death, so it's not a surefire defence, but is much harder to take down than a normal man. It also does not stack with any form of free defence. I've not found it to be abusive: most players prefer to save the points and rely on armour, which is after all, free. But it is good for tough guys and differentiates the real tough guy from the fast, canny fighter.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Stacking Defense

 

Something to keep in mind about stacking ANY kind of defense:

 

Hero System is a geometric, or exponential, system. It is not linear.

 

For example, consider two characters with 20 STR. Working together can they pick up as much as a character with 40 STR? NO. Together, they only equal 25 STR, because each 5 pts of STR is a doubling.

 

Similarly, if you have a wall of a certain thickness and it has, say, 3 body, then if you double the thickness - or put an identical wall behind it - it is only 4 BODy, not 6.

 

Defenses, especially resistant defenses, work the same way. An attack doing 4 BOD is technically supposed to be applying twice the force of an attack doing 3 BOD.

 

This is already part of the game's assumptions; so just as characters working together can't just add their STR totals, I would think it is entirely correct for a Game Operations Director to not allow different defenses to be stacked. If a chainmail shirt gives a DEF of, say, 4, then wearing two would give a DEF of 5, not 8.

 

Of course, I'm not going to dogmatically say you MUST be inflexible about defense stacking. If I tried to do that, I'd probably get soundly flamed and ignored anyway.

 

And rightly so.

 

But I for one wouldn't let combat luck stack with armor. Has anyone asked Steve Long about this?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Opinions expressed by Mr. Alexander are not necessarily those of the palindromedary

[ghost-angel]

Re: Stacking Defense

 

But I for one wouldn't let combat luck stack with armor. Has anyone asked Steve Long about this?

No need .. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the System doesn't dissallow stacking of Defences. The System Doesn't Care.

 

That's up to you to regulate.

 

I don't see any reason not to let Combat Luck stack with Light Armor such as a leather vest, or even magical armor like bracers. I can see the SFX of Combat Luck not stacking with heavy armor working most of the time.

 

everyone has their issues with it. I'm certainly not agaisnt regulating DEF scores in a game - I do it for Cyberpunk games all the time.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Stacking Defense

 

No need .. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the System doesn't dissallow stacking of Defences. The System Doesn't Care.

Yep. We've hashed this issue out enough that is a certainty. I'm sure you will turn up loads and loads of relavent discussions (here and in the Rules Questions Board) if you do a search or two.

[ghost-angel]

Re: combat luck

 

without a doubt, I said that in answer to the idea we should query Steve on this.

[Manic Typist]

Re: combat luck

 

If someone were to catch a PC in the bathtub in a game I run' date=' the first attack at least should count for Surprise, and I don't think I'd allow Combat Luck to apply in that instance (as per the guidelines under that Talent's description). As those guidelines also mention that CL "depends on a character's ability to dodge, block, or otherwise avoid damage," that player would have to come up with a [b']good[/b] rationale as to how he can do that while sitting in the tub. And of course, standing up and getting out of a tub full of water would require at least a full Phase. Plus a successful DEX roll. At a penalty.

 

I'm reclining in a bath tub. A gun wielding maniac slams through the door, plants his feet, and levels his gun at me.

 

My eyes go wide, I stare at him for what seems an eternity, and my tight-knuckled fist sends the soap bar squirting high into the air.

 

Time catches up to me, and everything starts moving.

 

Rather than go up, which is what he expects, I decide to go down. He might be distracted by the soap bar (GM makes a roll, people have a habit of watching objects that move like that) and I slam my self down into the soapy water and let the natural curvature of the tub slide my body to the opposite end, where I ball my body up.

 

By now the assault rifle is chattering right where I was, and maybe progressing down to where the madman thinks I am.

 

Since I would be *** to porcelin at this point (Unless I was smart enough to be using a cast iron tub, in which case I am nearly invulernable), I don't try to right myself. That would take to long. Instead, I further flip myself so that my head is on the bottom with my hands planted on either side of my hair, and my lower body (still VERY tightly curled up against myself) is now pointed towards the surface. I launch myself upwards using my arms, hoping I make a good acrobatics roll to land on my feet.

 

The gunman is reloading his clip. He seems my pale naked self come exploding out of the tub, UPSIDE DOWN. Soapy water is flying and the phallus is flopping.

 

I land on my feet. I turn to my assailant and say "You dirty, dirty boy!"

 

And at that point (depending on the circumstances) I either fling soapy water at his eyes and hope I get him, or I jump straight through the window and damn the fall!

 

If going for the window, I will see if I can snatch a towel on the way for slight protection against the glass. If going for him, snatch it as a makeshift garrotee.

[ghost-angel]

Re: combat luck

 

That was Phase 12.

 

 

what speed are you again?

[Manic Typist]

Re: combat luck

 

Hehe, let's say that I'm speed 4.

 

I was just trying to postulate how I would respond in that situation such that: A) It is neat It is feasible and C) The GM would reward me for my thinking by giving my combat luck and hopefully pluses to a few rolls.

 

Also, by now the water would be draining onto the floor, so depending on what the floor was made of (tile etc) I would slide forward towards the gunman (A cool move, deserving +s I would hope) and stop between the gunman's planted feet........ and ring him hard on the bell, so to say.

 

Gosh, I should SO do this. Haha.

[Roland]

Re: combat luck

 

I think the problem with Combat Luck is the luck part. I don't get why "luck-based" is a disadvantage. Following the principle that a disadvantage that's not disadvantageous doesn't save you any points, 3 PD/3 ED, hardened, non-persistent , should cost 9 points. If you want it to cost 6 points, then either it should be just 2 PD/2 ED or you should add another disad (such as limited stacking with armor). At the higher cost it's not un-balanced.

 

One way to approach limiting CL's stacking with armor might be to use the DCV penalty for armor encumbrance as a penalty to CL. So if a fighter is wearing heavy armor that encumbers him for -2 DCV, his Combat Luck would be reduced from 3 PD/3 ED to just 1 PD/1 ED.

 

(I'm feeling a bit guilty about my light fighter's recent purchase of Combat Luck.)