Lost in a crowd

[Dust Raven]

One of my players is making a character who has lived for a few thousand years and has learned the art of dissapearing into a crowd of people. I'm looking for suggestions on how to write this up.

 

Some things about this ability:

 

It's not supernatural/super anything at all, just really good at blending in with any group of people. The character has a globally neutral skin tone and facial features. He'd still stand out in a group of albinos or native Africans, but in any mix of people he'd dissapear.

 

I'm leaning toward some sort of Invisibility and I'm not sure if Concealment is powerful enough to handle what we're looking for.

 

Any suggestions?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

I immediately jumped to a limited Inivisbility..

 

But how about a Shapeshift: Sight Group .. the trick is in a crowd he looks generic, thus someone looking for him won't see Him, just people.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

What I've got right now (just to put something on the character sheet) is Invisibility, 0 END (+1/2), Only In A Crowd (-1) for 15 points (30 active). I'm looking for something better, or confirmation that what we've got is what we need.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

What you've got will work just fine mechanically. I want to say I saw a similar, or exact, build some time ago on the boards.

[OddHat]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

That looks fine, maybe with RSR:Concealment.

 

Also, plain old Concealment, Stealth and Shadowing, with +5 skill leves for another 15 points, should get you 18- or better with all of them. That should be enough for mundane invisibility. However, I think we're too ready to give up on skills and go straight to powers when we're looking for dramatic but "mundane" effects, so I'm somewhat biased.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

I think we're too ready to give up on skills and go straight to powers when we're looking for dramatic but "mundane" effects' date=' so I'm somewhat biased.[/quote']

 

I agree. To be honest, I think it's a matter of coming across something out of the ordinary that you want a character to do, and automatically think such extraordinary effects require Powers instead of plain, ordinary, uninteresting Skills. One of the reasons I started this is because of that. My first instinct was to leap at Invisibility because the action is more than mere Concealment. Of course, Concealment with 5 Skill Levels is also more than mere Concealment... but it is enough for the effect I'm looking for?

 

Basically, I don't want him located on any kind of a PER Roll made with Normal Sight (or most senses made with the Sight Group). He just blends in and dissappears. Concealments allows for a Skill versus PER Roll contest, so while it might work most of the time, a botched roll would defeat the SFX of it being automatic.

[OddHat]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Basically' date=' I don't want him located on any kind of a PER Roll made with Normal Sight (or most senses made with the Sight Group). He just blends in and dissappears. Concealments allows for a Skill versus PER Roll contest, so while it might work most of the time, a botched roll would defeat the SFX of it being automatic.[/quote']

 

In that case, I'd go with straight Invisibility as well, and just define it as a super-skill. So, good call.

[specks]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Originally Posted by OddHat

I think we're too ready to give up on skills and go straight to powers when we're looking for dramatic but "mundane" effects, so I'm somewhat biased.

 

Hmm. I hope the The Ultimate Skill book will clairify how to use skills effectively instead of just jumping to powers so easily.

[Mister E]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

The Shadowing Skill gives the ability to spot and loss a tail. I think the ability to loose yourself in a crowd is more appropriately represented with Shadowing. City Knowledge and Area Knowledge are given as Complimentary Skills to Shadowing; and circumstancial modifiers like being in a crowded airport, in the middle of the desert, or in a crowd full of albinos, can be applied.

 

Fully vanishing into a crowd while being watched could constitute an incredible feat (as per "Extraordinary Skills", pg 29 FRed), and require a Skill Roll of 18- or better, and take a -10 penalty. This is an optional rule.

 

I'm with Oddhat, concerning the trend of skipping over the Skill System in favor of Powers. I generally prefer using Skills.

 

+5 or more Skill Levels for Shadowing, and a high INT (23+), should do the trick.

[austenandrews]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

I'm in the Shadowing camp. For "super-Shadowing" I'd probably go with Invis, but I'm not sure what would drive me to go that route.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Really low PRE, combined with completely average COM?

 

I would favour a skill, but that would depend on the sfx - I'm assuming he is just good at doing nothing to attract attention. If it is literally'disappear in a crowd' I'd be inclined to go with images, so that opponents can see him with a sufficiently good PRE rolls. I'd only use invisibility if it was dissapears (while in a crowd).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Really low PRE, combined with completely average COM?

 

I would favour a skill, but that would depend on the sfx - I'm assuming he is just good at doing nothing to attract attention. If it is literally'disappear in a crowd' I'd be inclined to go with images, so that opponents can see him with a sufficiently good PRE rolls. I'd only use invisibility if it was dissapears (while in a crowd).

 

Yeah, he dissapears (effectively). He's still there and even has a visible presence, but there is no way anyone can make a PER roll with most Sight senses to spot him. Well, unless the person looking is also in the crown and right next to him (would still have a fringe I guess).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Yeah' date=' he dissapears (effectively). He's still there and even has a visible presence, but there is no way anyone can make a PER roll with most Sight senses to spot him. Well, unless the person looking is also in the crown and right next to him (would still have a fringe I guess).[/quote']

 

Sounds very much like invisibility, or even an AE mental illusions if it does not allow a PER roll normally. If someone takes a photgraph, is he equally hard to spot in the crowd, or does the effect only take place in his immediate presence?

[Mentor]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

One of the characters in our original Pulp Hero campaign had the same power. He was a Filipino houseby/bodyguard to one of the other characters, who became just a part of the furniture like all good servants in the 1930s. IIRC, he bought it as Invisibility to normal sight with the limitaions Based on Ego (-1/2) Requires appropriate environment (crowds, parties, social or business functions where a servant would be ignored, etc) (-1/2). The odd thing about the power definition is that nobody would see him at the time, but he would appear in a photograph motion picture at a later reviw of the action. The character had some really cool moments.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

If you were trying to keep a certain cinematic tension in the game - such as many movie crowd chases - wher you repeatedly lose track of and find the person you're chasing, or if your the evader seem to lose them for short periods, long enough to start putting good distance between you and them, I would say a high Skill is what you want.

 

If you're trying to make a flawless exit, like when the train/bus goes by and the person across the street is just Gone when the vehicle is past then Invisibility is what you want.

 

It all depends on what you're really trying to do and what the GM wants in his game.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

That looks fine, maybe with RSR:Concealment.

 

Also, plain old Concealment, Stealth and Shadowing, with +5 skill leves for another 15 points, should get you 18- or better with all of them. That should be enough for mundane invisibility. However, I think we're too ready to give up on skills and go straight to powers when we're looking for dramatic but "mundane" effects, so I'm somewhat biased.

 

I'm with Oddhat on this... and my initial instinct was "Shadowing" as I'm pretty sure that it states the skill gives the ability to lose yourself as much as it does follow someone else.

 

You could have "Shadowing" (-1 only for losing self in crowds) with +10 to the roll or some such. This means that only another charcter with inhuman spotting skills would be able to pick them out. To me this makes sense. An amazing skill learned over centuries should not be found out unless ANOTHER amazing skill is used to counter it. Also... I really like skills, and interpret them broadly based on the intent of the PC build. Same way as EB 10d6 is different for the Fire Guy vs. the Water Guy... Shadowing for Ancient Highlander Guy is different than Shadowing for Crafty PI Guy!

 

Remember, the only thing that Hero asks of you is that the points spent get appropriate value for that campaign/game. If you and the player agree that 15 points of Shadowing for Ancient Highlander Guy is enough for him to just "disappear in a crowd" 99.9% of the time without a roll....Good to go! Then the one time Ancient Hunter Guy shows up and you actually have the roll vs. roll come into play... it is a dramatic moment!

 

At least that is how I would address this. (And 15 points was a random number... may be too high or too low, based on the value in your game.)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Sounds very much like invisibility' date=' or even an AE mental illusions if it does not allow a PER roll normally. If someone takes a photgraph, is he equally hard to spot in the crowd, or does the effect only take place in his immediate presence?[/quote']

 

Mmm... I wouldn't say equally, since in a photograph there would be a chance to go over every little detail over and over again until you find him (like a Where's Waldo picture). It still would take increadible effort or a lot of time though. I'm willing to say photo's and recorded video (if gone over again) would be similar to making a PER roll to spot the fringe. And like spotting the fringe, you still won't actually see him, just have a good idea he's there.

[Mister E]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

I'm with Oddhat on this... and my initial instinct was "Shadowing" as I'm pretty sure that it states the skill gives the ability to lose yourself as much as it does follow someone else.

 

You could have "Shadowing" (-1 only for losing self in crowds) with +10 to the roll or some such. This means that only another charcter with inhuman spotting skills would be able to pick them out. To me this makes sense. An amazing skill learned over centuries should not be found out unless ANOTHER amazing skill is used to counter it. Also... I really like skills, and interpret them broadly based on the intent of the PC build. Same way as EB 10d6 is different for the Fire Guy vs. the Water Guy... Shadowing for Ancient Highlander Guy is different than Shadowing for Crafty PI Guy!

 

Remember, the only thing that Hero asks of you is that the points spent get appropriate value for that campaign/game. If you and the player agree that 15 points of Shadowing for Ancient Highlander Guy is enough for him to just "disappear in a crowd" 99.9% of the time without a roll....Good to go! Then the one time Ancient Hunter Guy shows up and you actually have the roll vs. roll come into play... it is a dramatic moment!

 

At least that is how I would address this. (And 15 points was a random number... may be too high or too low, based on the value in your game.)

This is a sweet and simple build idea; and it smacks of future 5th ed "Talent-hood." repped.

[zornwil]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Mmm... I wouldn't say equally' date=' since in a photograph there would be a chance to go over every little detail over and over again until you find him (like a Where's Waldo picture). It still would take increadible effort or a lot of time though. I'm willing to say photo's and recorded video (if gone over again) would be similar to making a PER roll to spot the fringe. And like spotting the fringe, you still won't actually see him, just have a good idea he's there.[/quote']

In more extreme cases, where a character is always ignored, cameras fail, etc., along with the crowd ignoring him (the eminently forgettable man), we've gone with Invisible with Invisible Power Effects. After all, you see him right there...but you don't! You see him, but you never think about him - no one would realize he was "invisible" on top of him being effectively invisible. Often bought with a lim if the character does anything that would call attention to himself cancelling out the invisibility.

[OddHat]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

In more extreme cases' date=' where a character is always ignored, cameras fail, etc., along with the crowd ignoring him (the eminently forgettable man), we've gone with Invisible with Invisible Power Effects. After all, you see him right there...but you don't! You see him, but you never think about him - no one would realize he was "invisible" on top of him being effectively invisible. Often bought with a lim if the character does anything that would call attention to himself cancelling out the invisibility.[/quote']

 

Strange, but I like it.

[Steve]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Another way to approach this might be a combination of skill and power. The character could have Concealment at normal levels, but they also have extra levels in Concealment that are limited in that they require a crowd to work. After all, if you can take a bonus to Lockpicking through a Focus, then why not limit a bonus to Concealment by requiring a crowd?

 

The notion of Invisible Power Effects suggests to me the idea of taking it on the Concealment skill as well, which seems like a cool effect. You just kind of step into the crowd and... vanish. You can do it as a power build, but a little creativity with Skills can do neat things as well.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

In more extreme cases' date=' where a character is always ignored, cameras fail, etc., along with the crowd ignoring him (the eminently forgettable man), we've gone with Invisible with Invisible Power Effects. After all, you see him right there...but you don't! You see him, but you never think about him - no one would realize he was "invisible" on top of him being effectively invisible. Often bought with a lim if the character does anything that would call attention to himself cancelling out the invisibility.[/quote']

You are a crazy man!

 

You could have "Shadowing" (-1 only for losing self in crowds) with +10 to the roll or some such. This means that only another charcter with inhuman spotting skills would be able to pick them out. To me this makes sense. An amazing skill learned over centuries should not be found out unless ANOTHER amazing skill is used to counter it. Also... I really like skills' date=' and interpret them broadly based on the intent of the PC build. Same way as EB 10d6 is different for the Fire Guy vs. the Water Guy... Shadowing for Ancient Highlander Guy is different than Shadowing for Crafty PI Guy![/quote']

Yeah. I like the use of "Superskills," for this. If we wanted to get even more out-there, we could have levels of extraoridinary success. Make the roll by +10, that's Extraordinary Level 1; make it by +20, that's Extraordinary Level 2....

[Mentor]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

In more extreme cases' date=' where a character is always ignored, cameras fail, etc., along with the crowd ignoring him (the eminently forgettable man), we've gone with Invisible with Invisible Power Effects. After all, you see him right there...but you don't! You see him, but you never think about him - no one would realize he was "invisible" on top of him being effectively invisible. Often bought with a lim if the character does anything that would call attention to himself cancelling out the invisibility.[/quote']

Our variation on the theme was that someone monitoring the camera live while the PC was still in the area did not see him but later review did. Mostlty it got the evil security mooks punished severely for sleeping on guard duty.

[zornwil]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

Our variation on the theme was that someone monitoring the camera live while the PC was still in the area did not see him but later review did. Mostlty it got the evil security mooks punished severely for sleeping on guard duty.

Heh, I like that! I love things that leave a cool flavor.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lost in a crowd

 

I was thinking about the Shadowing idea. While it does more than just lose a tail, I'm thing the whole disappearing into a crowd thing might actually make him good at following people. Shadowing with a +6 to the roll will also cost 15 points, and for him, that will give him around a 20- unmodified roll. I don't believe this is the best build for what the player originally described, but I'm wondering if he'll like it better.

 

Of course, being Invisible would certainly help in following people unoticed...