Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

[OddHat]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

This is weird yet interesting. I wonder what other characters there were in the German pulps? What would a German version of the Shadow' date=' let alone the Spider:Master of men) be like? "Wretched Bolsheviks! Death! death! [i']Der Spinne brings you death![/i] [mad cackling laughter mingled with the sound of roaring Lugers]

 

Jess Nevins' site lists a bunch of them, but the most interesting all pre-date the Nazis. The German Shadow was half-Indian, and the German Mandrake trained in India. When the Nazis came in, the non-pure German pulp heroes all stopped publishing.

[Lucius]

Sun Koh, Mr. Moto, and Heroes on the Other Side

 

Mr. Moto (i don't recall if he was ever given a first name) is an intelligent' date=' capable and resourceful man who has some scruples. He just happens to be serving an evil regime (the military junta in Tokyo). He might not know about the horrors that are being committed in the name of his country, or he might not care. Given his line of work and the nature of his belief system, it is doubtful that he would have survived the war -- given that China was his major area of operations he could easily have found himself facing a Communist firing squad at the end of hostilities.[/quote']

 

He did survive the war. There was at least one Mr. Moto story set after World War II - Right You Are, Mr. Moto, also sometimes called The Last of Mr. Moto. I think that was also the only one where it was pointed out that "Moto" is not an actual Japanese surname and is therefor rather obviously a psuedonym.

 

In some of the earlier novels, I seem to recall that it was implied that Mr. Moto reported directly to the Emperor, and that the Emperor did not necessarily approve of all the actions taken by the "military junta" as you have dubbed them, but was not able to totally control them. Perhaps this was how the author, Mr. Marquand, saw reality, and perhaps he was even right to some extent or another.

Certainly I was impressed that he saw clearly and years in advance that there would be a war between the United States and Japan. Mr. Moto says as much at one point to an American pilot, that the competing interests of the two countries would eventually lead to war. I think that was written a full 7 years before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

In game terms, Mr. Moto would be an NPC. He is never the protagonist, but is a pivotal character who appears, usually to help, and sometimes to oppose the protagonists.

 

As for Sun Koh - since there actually were Savage Nazi Doctors, I don't see why in fiction and games there can't be a Nazi Doc Savage.

 

And it think it's an interesting idea to have the option that some characters, especially those not "racially pure" enough, start out on the German side and eventually defect. After all, that's basically what happened: To some extent we won the war with the brains Hitler threw away, scientists like Einstein and Fermi.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary mourns what the Nazis did to perfectly good words like "Aryan" and symbols like the swastika.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Sun Koh, Mr. Moto, and Heroes on the Other Side

 

He did survive the war. There was at least one Mr. Moto story set after World War II - Right You Are, Mr. Moto, also sometimes called The Last of Mr. Moto. I think that was also the only one where it was pointed out that "Moto" is not an actual Japanese surname and is therefor rather obviously a psuedonym.

 

In some of the earlier novels, I seem to recall that it was implied that Mr. Moto reported directly to the Emperor, and that the Emperor did not necessarily approve of all the actions taken by the "military junta" as you have dubbed them, but was not able to totally control them. Perhaps this was how the author, Mr. Marquand, saw reality, and perhaps he was even right to some extent or another.

From the point of view of the Americans in the immediate post-war period, McArthur in particular, it was a very convenient way to view the world. Pacifying a defeated Japan was a much easier task with Hirohito still in place than it would have been with him dethroned or hanged. (Several prominent Japanese political and military figures were hanged as war criminals, including de-facto head of Government for much of the war Hideki Tojo ) During the war, of course, American prop[aganda demonized Hirohito and parcitaclly all things Japanese.

 

Nobody has ever been able to say definitevly what Hirohito's actual involvement in planning the China, Southeast Asia and finally Pacific campaigns was. Technically the was supposed to approve everything and everyone in the Japanese armed forces owed him their perosnal alleigance. But he was not the day-to-day operator of the government the way any of the Western dictators like Hitler, Stalin or Mussolini were. There is dispute over how much he knew and what his feelings were about what he did know. He did realize that the war was essentially lost well before it actually ended, but was just as constrained as everyone else in the Japanese government from taking any action to shorten hostilities. even the popular account that it was Hirohito who commanded the Japanese surrender after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 is open to dispute.

 

To most Japanese, Hirohito is a beloved figure whose reign included both the tragedy of the war and the triumph of Japan's recovery from defeat. But to many in China and Korea, he is a war criminal who bore personal responsibility for the atrocities commited in his name.

 

Certainly I was impressed that he saw clearly and years in advance that there would be a war between the United States and Japan. Mr. Moto says as much at one point to an American pilot, that the competing interests of the two countries would eventually lead to war. I think that was written a full 7 years before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

In game terms, Mr. Moto would be an NPC. He is never the protagonist, but is a pivotal character who appears, usually to help, and sometimes to oppose the protagonists.

 

Such a character would be very handy to have around, but you would have to handle him very carefully. Players loathe anything that resembles, even slightly, a deux ex machina. The convenient NPC who pulls their fat out of the fire every time would be that.

 

On the other hand, I like the idea of having an NPC who is somewhat helpful, but whose presence is always a clear indication that the PCs are in way over their heads. If they have to use their own resources to get out of the mess they're in it's even better.

[Lucius]

Re: Sun Koh, Mr. Moto, and Heroes on the Other Side

 

From the point of view of the Americans in the immediate post-war period' date=' McArthur in particular, it was a very [i']convenient[/i] way to view the world. Pacifying a defeated Japan was a much easier task with Hirohito still in place than it would have been with him dethroned or hanged. (Several prominent Japanese political and military figures were hanged as war criminals, including de-facto head of Government for much of the war Hideki Tojo ) During the war, of course, American prop[aganda demonized Hirohito and parcitaclly all things Japanese..

 

Your statements regarding after the war and during the war are quite true. But most of the Mr. Moto novels date from before the war. Whatever Mr. Marquand's reasons for presenting the oriental world of that time as he did, it couldn't have had anything to do with what was convenient post-war. More likely he wanted to make Mr. Moto an at least somewhat sympathetic character, and was aware enough of what the Japanese were doing in the name of their "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" to feel a need to distance his character from those doings.

 

 

Such a character would be very handy to have around, but you would have to handle him very carefully. Players loathe anything that resembles, even slightly, a deux ex machina. The convenient NPC who pulls their fat out of the fire every time would be that.

 

On the other hand, I like the idea of having an NPC who is somewhat helpful, but whose presence is always a clear indication that the PCs are in way over their heads. If they have to use their own resources to get out of the mess they're in it's even better.

 

In one of the novels, Mr. Moto is trying to get control of a certain document, and as I recall seemed quite willing to kill to get it. Then when the document is accidentally destroyed, he offers to help the Americans get out of their currently dangerous location and back to safety. Yes, certainly he would have killed them to possess that document, but now it is gone, and so is any reason for conflict. Why not offer his assistance, and why should they refuse it? That scene almost defines the courteous, helpful, and absolutely ruthless Mr. Moto.

 

If he is trying to help you, you are in more danger than you know. If he is working AGAINST you, you are probably truly "in way over your head."

 

If the word "Ninja" had been as commonly known in the West then as it is now, Mr. Marquand would probably have made Mr. Moto a ninja. In fact, I'm not sure he wasn't aware of what the ninja were and thought of Mr. Moto as being one.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a dependent non-player palindromedary

[Susano]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Oddhat? Is it okay to put the copy of Sun Koh you sent me on my website?

[OddHat]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Oddhat? Is it okay to put the copy of Sun Koh you sent me on my website?

 

Please do.

[Susano]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Please do.

 

Thanks. I'll be adding Kong and Ann (and the Wold-Newtorn) hopefully today.

[Roter Baron]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Some of you mentioned that the fact of a mentalist/ hypnotist being half-Indian could have been a reason to be persecuted by the Nazi governmet - ON THE CONTRARY! Being Indian would be absolutely okay, as long as you aren't too dark-skinned because of the bogus racial idea of Germans and Indians being Aryan. There was even the grand idea of conquering India and they even got as far as to assemble an "Indian Legion" which was part of the SS, recruited from British POW captured during the North-Adrica campaign. The wore the regular Waffen-SS-uniform plus a leaping tiger over the Indian national colors orange, white and green and the words "Freies Indien" (Free India) on their uniformsleeve.

It is not clear if they actually saw combat, but so much for being persecuted for being not German: German-Nordic - no. "Aryan" - yes! - Welcome to the Superrace!

[USAFguy]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Gotta agree with the name issue. Sun and Koh are both very common names in Korea...but I never heard them together during my two years there.

 

Best regards,

Mark Ahnen

[OddHat]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Gotta agree with the name issue. Sun and Koh are both very common names in Korea...but I never heard them together during my two years there.

 

Best regards,

Mark Ahnen

 

The character was named by a German writer in 1933. The appropriate link is at the top of the character sheet, and the character's publishing history is in the text.

 

If a GM likes the concept but not the name, he can change the name and make any revisions he'd like for his campaign. Pulp Writers did it all the time.

[Susano]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Err... what happened to Roter Baron's post? I see the email, but nothing is here. Did he delete it?

[OddHat]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Err... what happened to Roter Baron's post? I see the email' date=' but nothing is here. Did he delete it?[/quote']

 

I see one post by Roter Baron, the only one he has made according to his post count. I'll PM you the contents if you'd like.

[Susano]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

I see one post by Roter Baron' date=' the only one he has made according to his post count. I'll PM you the contents if you'd like.[/quote']

 

No need, I have it on the email, and saw the NGD post where apparently the Mods need to okay his posts.

[OddHat]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

No need' date=' I have it on the email, and saw the NGD post where apparently the Mods need to okay his posts.[/quote']

 

Ah. Never saw him on NGD.

[Lucius]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Making Greenland arable, when there's a a new ice age coming....I can't believe I missed that the first time....

 

Does anyone have any links to sites about old German pulp or comic book heroes, that are 1) In English, and 2) still active?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary prepares for rising sea levels by raising Atlantis

[Balabanto]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

I think it is VERY likely that Siegel and Shuster knew of this character and his stories when they were creating Superman.

[Lucius]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Making Greenland arable, when there's a a new ice age coming....I can't believe I missed that the first time....

 

Does anyone have any links to sites about old German pulp or comic book heroes, that are 1) In English, and 2) still active?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary prepares for rising sea levels by raising Atlantis

 

Or, for that matter, Japanese?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary responds "mu"

[st barbara]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Well there was a real life Nazi equivalent of "Indiana Jones" (Otto Rahn) so I don't see why there shouldn't be a German version of" Doc Savage". As an aside there is also a French equivalent of Doc; "La Nyctalope", who first appeared in 1908 (well before the good doctor was ever created).

[Clonus]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Never mind

[Zen Archer]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Making Greenland arable, when there's a a new ice age coming....I can't believe I missed that the first time....

 

Does anyone have any links to sites about old German pulp or comic book heroes, that are 1) In English, and 2) still active?

 

 

Still very much an extended work in progress, but I like this site for comics: http://internationalhero.co.uk/

 

As for pulp, the best I could get was a list of certain mags on Wikipedia after a search for "German pulp" failed to turn up anything specific. Jess Nevins' pulp and comics sites are great, but not very active currently.

[starblaze]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

Or he joins one of the anti-Nazi resistance movements BECAUSE Germany is the country that he loves and he doesn't want to see it run by murderer and lunatics like the Nazis.

 

Just a thought.

 

Reminds me of the German guy that teamed with Aldo the Apache and Inglorius Basterds.

[Zen Archer]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

As an aside there is also a French equivalent of Doc; "La Nyctalope"' date=' who first appeared in 1908 (well before the good doctor was ever created).[/quote']

 

Interestingly, given the topic, The Nyctalope was also said to have worked with the Nazis in the last 1940s story. I haven't read it myself, but the editors of the current Tales of The Shadomen anthology series are using that storyline.

[st barbara]

Re: Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage. Character and links.

 

It is obvious that I should get hold of this "Tales Of The Shadomen" series ! Just yesterday I took delivery of three "Green Lama" titles,"Gaslight Arcanum :Uncanny Tales Of Sherlock Holmes". "Pulp Echoes" and "The Incredible Adventures Of Doc Atlas". Of course it may be some time before I actually get around to READING any of them !