Enemies of San Angelo

[Gold Rush Games]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Are you guys still looking for feed back on what people would like to see in a 2e book?

Always.

 

Not trying to get in your business, but I've got a couple of quick questions. What the minimum number of sales you'd need to at least break even?

I prefer not to speak about such financial details. Suffice it to say that selling at least 800 copies through distribution (or 400 copies via direct sale) would be enough to get the books published.

 

Unfortunately, The Dragons Gate, SACoH 1.5 and other more recent releases have sold far less than that. Thus the hiaitus as we develop a new strategery for the SACoH and other lines.

 

Knowing that folks are still interested in an updated SACoH line of products (with HERO 5th Ed stats) is certainly encouraging, however!

 

Would a PDF be cheaper for you to produce,

Cheaper to pblish, yes, but they cost the same to develop (i.e., paying authors, artists, time to design/layout, etc.).

[Gold Rush Games]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

The only thing I wish the book had (that I can recall) is that the villain Chrome's write-up included a write-up for the deceased hero Alloy.

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

 

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

 

Thoughts?

[MitchellS]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

 

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

 

Thoughts?

I'd purchase it in a heartbeat. I love the idea of legacy characters. Books like this serve as inspiration for creating legacy-based PCs [the son/grandson of the hero trying to live up to the ideals, or possibly of the villain try to make up for the relative's evil deeds]. I'd like to see such a book have stats for the characters in the prime as well as what they currently look like [only the still living ones, not the dead ones ] now that they're older and retired.

[MitchellS]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

One of the things I might suggest doing to help drum up some San Angelo interest is to start putting some new material on your website every week, bi-weekly, or even monthy in a "Shadows of San Angelo" column. This is the place where you can post a historic character [Pulp, Golden, Silver, Bronze Age], either hero or villain. You can post a character update from the, hopefully, upcoming 2nd Edition. You can post a short story or perhaps an original idea on an area of San Angelo. If you are looking at a long period before we can expect to see an updated product then use that time to whet our appetite.

 

Sometimes it's just not enough to say: here's our new book, buy it. Sometimes you need to arouse, tease, and stimulate our imaginations to the point where we MUST have the new book to feel sated.

[ThothAmon]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

I liked Enemies Of San Angelo. The writeups provide characters that are more human than the generic supers found in certain other supplements.

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

One of the things I might suggest doing to help drum up some San Angelo interest is to start putting some new material on your website every week' date=' bi-weekly, or even monthy in a "Shadows of San Angelo" column. This is the place where you can post a historic character [Pulp, Golden, Silver, Bronze Age'], either hero or villain. You can post a character update from the, hopefully, upcoming 2nd Edition. You can post a short story or perhaps an original idea on an area of San Angelo. If you are looking at a long period before we can expect to see an updated product then use that time to whet our appetite.

 

Sometimes it's just not enough to say: here's our new book, buy it. Sometimes you need to arouse, tease, and stimulate our imaginations to the point where we MUST have the new book to feel sated.

We do post things to our own forums from time to time. Your idea is certainly a good one. I'll have to consider doing something like this. Thanks, , and have some rep for the suggestion.

[OddHat]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

WOW!! I am pleased to see these responses. Always good to hear about folks using the SA line. I've seen a lot of talk about the city book and Enemies. How many of you are using the Denizens book? What were your impressions of it?

 

As an aside, I went through and updated all the character stats in all the books to 5th ed, but we are waiting to put them into SACoH 2e once we figure out who makes the 'cut', and what their 'growth' will be. Mark and I have kicked around several ideas of the changes that have occurred over the last several years. You'll have to wait to see what those are.

 

Also, we need to determine if it will be worth it to us to jump back into the line. I will also add that there are a few discussions on the GRG boards about the line and upcoming news for any interested in reading it.

 

Just wanted to mention how much my wife and I enjoy the SA line. I'd gladly pick up a 5thEd update, and/or more San Angelo Hero System books.

[Dominique]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

 

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

 

Thoughts?

 

Or, how about Legends of San Angleo, not that big of a change, but it sounds more in line with your previous products. As far as the idea for it goes, I'm all for it. The longer this thread runs, the happier I am that I started it.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Unfortunately, The Dragons Gate, SACoH 1.5 and other more recent releases have sold far less than that. Thus the hiaitus as we develop a new strategery for the SACoH and other lines.

 

Since you have declared yourself open to fan feedback, I hope you'll take the points I'm about to raise as constructive criticism, as they're intended.

 

IMO The Dragons Gate is a quality game product, with fascinating details of that section of a great fictional city. However, the fact that it did detail only a section with a particular style and flavor made it a bit of a niche product within a niche product (i.e. city sourcebooks), not conducive to great sales. Also, the personalities and power levels of the characters detailed in the book made it seem more like a Dark Champions supplement, whereas San Angelo overall is definitely four-color in tone. It kind of missed the SA fanbase target, again IMO.

 

SACoH 1.5 was of course pretty much the same material as the original, just with new non-HERO game stats. I'm sure you didn't expect to have HERO gamers who already own the book buy copies, but IME many gamers will buy a sourcebook just to mine for ideas, whether it's a system they play or not. With the original SA having been out for so long a lot of those gamers would have already seen it, cutting down the potential buyership even more.

 

OTOH a new San Angelo sourcebook updating and expanding on the city and its inhabitants, with stats for 5E HERO and other systems like Mutants And Masterminds, would have far broader appeal IMO.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

 

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

 

Thoughts?

 

Most definitely. Lots of people like the option of creating legacy characters, or prefer to run supers campaigns set in earlier eras, or with that Golden or Silver Age "tone" to them. IMHO putting all the earlier-era characters into one book would make it more appealing to people who don't want "just" a Golden or Silver Age supplement.

 

I would suggest not leaving it as just a character collection, though. I recommend including notes as to what was happening in San Angelo during each "age," including political and social developments, major events in the timeline, etc. The unique focus of SA has always been the life of the normal inhabitants, and their perspective on the extraordinary beings in their midst. Making the earlier eras in San Angelo's history live and breathe should appeal to those who loved the modern-day sourcebook.

 

However, I would also suggest a World Of San Angelo sourcebook at some point. One of the wishes I hear expressed most often among SA fans is for more information about the Earth outside of the city, so that they could expand their characters' adventures into the wider world. If such a book could exploit the "normal perspective" that's so distinctive to SA - how the peoples of different regions view superbeings and how their presence has impacted those societies - that would help set it apart from other supers worldbooks such as Hero Games's own Champions Universe.

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Your points are definitely valid LL, as always. I would point out however that SA is actually a city capable of being more than a four-color city. There is the Cathedral district that really has that Daredevil / Dark Champions tone to it after all. Also, the Dragon's Gate could be plopped into any existing city, or be a one shot adventure area in some other city than the campaign city. Just to toss a few other ideas out there.

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Most definitely. Lots of people like the option of creating legacy characters, or

as Hero Games's own Champions Universe.

I agree. It is something that we have talked about.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Your points are definitely valid LL' date=' as always. I would point out however that SA is actually a city capable of being more than a four-color city. There is the Cathedral district that really has that Daredevil / Dark Champions tone to it after all. Also, the Dragon's Gate could be plopped into any existing city, or be a one shot adventure area in some other city than the campaign city. Just to toss a few other ideas out there. [/quote']

 

Absolutely agree. I for one think a variety of tones is a good thing to include, to cover a variety of gaming styles.

 

I should probably have specified that I was addressing sales issues; if the sales of SA 1.5 and TDG have had an impact on plans to continue the line, I wanted to point out that those books had particular factors working against them that had nothing to do with their quality, and wouldn't necessarily reflect on the entire game line. For example, the tone of TDG and the power level of the characters detailed there were specific issues that I've seen several people raise regarding that book. More variety there might have made it more desirable.

 

I do apologise if I caused any offense.

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Oh no offense at all. I don't take offense to constructive criticism.

 

I just wanted to point out that the material is more adaptable than some may think, and your comments, while I understand your direction, may have led those not in the know to think that the material was restrictive some how.

[Dominique]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

We do post things to our own forums from time to time. Your idea is certainly a good one. I'll have to consider doing something like this. Thanks' date=' , and have some rep for the suggestion.[/quote']

 

Any chance you would be willing to do a Digital Hero article, or two, filling us in on what's been happening in SA, over the last few years? I'm thinking it could be written as a newspaper article, or a story from a magazine.

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Any chance you would be willing to do a Digital Hero article' date=' or two, filling us in on what's been happening in SA, over the last few years? I'm thinking it could be written as a newspaper article, or a story from a magazine.[/quote']

[You crossposting fiend you. ]

 

As I mentioned in the GRG forum. I will definitely consider this. As for how much info I can divulge that is another story entirely. I don't want to spill the beans about anything that might be in upcoming products, but Mark and I will talk and see what areas I can post about.

[MitchellS]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

[You crossposting fiend you. ]

 

As I mentioned in the GRG forum. I will definitely consider this. As for how much info I can divulge that is another story entirely. I don't want to spill the beans about anything that might be in upcoming products, but Mark and I will talk and see what areas I can post about.

I'd suggest that you forego Digital Hero and use your own website and resources for a number of reasons, the least not being that: 1, DOJ owns all rights to material published in DH and 2, DH articles don't reach M&M and Action System fans. If you're looking for a minimum of 800 units sold then you need to be able to target all 3 of those fan-groups. The best way to handle this is to put the material on your own website and then advertise on all the various RPG forums. That way you draw additional attention rather then just preaching to one side of the choir.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Any of you guys pick this up? if so' date=' what did you think of it?[/quote']

 

I posted a really log review here: http://www.goldrushgames.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=137&hl=

 

It is heavily IMHO of course...

[Dominique]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

As I mentioned in the GRG forum. I will definitely consider this. As for how much info I can divulge that is another story entirely. I don't want to spill the beans about anything that might be in upcoming products' date=' but Mark and I will talk and see what areas I can post about.[/quote']

 

I'm not asking, nor would I want you to, give up things you plan on using down he road (as I said, I want to see you guys to make some loot off this deal). I'm thinking something along the lines of what you would post as a preview anyway. While I'm thinking about it, several companies have posted PDFs of cut-out/stand ups of characters. Any chance you could do that for EoSA? It would be a great give away. Anyone else here like to see something like that?

[MitchellS]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

I'm not asking' date=' nor would I want you to, give up things you plan on using down he road (as I said, I want to see you guys to make some loot off this deal). I'm thinking something along the lines of what you would post as a preview anyway. While I'm thinking about it, several companies have posted PDFs of cut-out/stand ups of characters. Any chance you could do that for EoSA? It would be a great give away. Anyone else here like to see something like that?[/quote']

Cardboard minis are nice to have but they are really only beneficial if the original art is full-color [that's why DOJ has their art colored and then sells theirs]. If you need to have the character art colored then you are just spending money that could be better used elsewhere.

[Dominique]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Cardboard minis are nice to have but they are really only beneficial if the original art is full-color [that's why DOJ has their art colored and then sells theirs]. If you need to have the character art colored then you are just spending money that could be better used elsewhere.

 

Or there's the old fashined method of cloloring the pics yourself, after you've printed them out.

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

I'd suggest that you forego Digital Hero and use your own website and resources for a number of reasons' date=' the least not being that: 1, DOJ owns all rights to material published in DH and 2, DH articles don't reach M&M and Action System fans. If you're looking for a minimum of 800 units sold then you need to be able to target all 3 of those fan-groups. The best way to handle this is to put the material on your own website and then advertise on all the various RPG forums. That way you draw additional attention rather then just preaching to one side of the choir.[/quote']

Of course I didn't mention where I would be posting specifically...

[RPMiller]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

Cardboard minis are nice to have but they are really only beneficial if the original art is full-color [that's why DOJ has their art colored and then sells theirs]. If you need to have the character art colored then you are just spending money that could be better used elsewhere.

I can do the coloring myself as can Mark. We are both proficient at PhotoShop, but yes you are correct about money better spent elsewhere.

[Dominique]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

I'd suggest that you forego Digital Hero and use your own website and resources for a number of reasons' date=' the least not being that: 1, DOJ owns all rights to material published in DH and 2, DH articles don't reach M&M and Action System fans. If you're looking for a minimum of 800 units sold then you need to be able to target all 3 of those fan-groups. The best way to handle this is to put the material on your own website and then advertise on all the various RPG forums. That way you draw additional attention rather then just preaching to one side of the choir.[/quote']

 

Trust me, there are currently SA threads up and running on several different boards at the moment.

[Kirby]

Re: Enemies of San Angelo

 

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

 

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

 

Thoughts?

I'd purchase it in a heartbeat. I love the idea of legacy characters. Books like this serve as inspiration for creating legacy-based PCs [the son/grandson of the hero trying to live up to the ideals' date= or possibly of the villain try to make up for the relative's evil deeds]. I'd like to see such a book have stats for the characters in the prime as well as what they currently look like [only the still living ones, not the dead ones ] now that they're older and retired.

Ditto!