fear-ability

[swobeas]

Heya!

 

I have been questioning myself how you herophiles out there handle conversions from other systems in the case of abilities like "causes fear".

 

Typically a dice roll must be made and then the character can stand and fight (if he succeeded), stands still mouth open or even flees...

 

Do you give monsters like skeletons for example a bonus to presence attacks or do you handle it another way

[tancred]

Re: fear-ability

 

Several creatures have "Offensive" PRE, that is PRE that is only used for making Presence Attacks, but doesn't help defend against one.

 

I also notice that the published Skeleton has this

"Physical Limitation: Affected By Necromancy (has EGO 20 for purposes of necromancy spells, and can be affected by necromancy-based Presence Attacks Infrequently, Greatly Impairing"

 

Hope that helps.

 

Edit: There are also some Templates in the Bestiary that apply:

Battle-Trained has: Combat-Acclimated: +3 PRE (3 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Presence Attacks (-1)

 

and Ferocious has:

Terrifying Appearance: +5 PRE (5 Active Points); Only To Make Or Resist Presence Attacks (-¼) Total cost 14 points.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: fear-ability

 

It's a Presence attack, fear based abilities are usually bought as Power, improved Presence, only for PRE attacks/extra PRE attack dice. Just the use the standard HERO rules and buy up points as necessary until you're comfortable with what you can scare out of its pants.

[JohnTaber]

Re: fear-ability

 

As is normal with Hero there are a bunch of ways to do everything. Boy...I love this system. I actually did an article for AC #26 which details 3 or 4 ways to buy fear powers. Check the article if you want several different ideas.

[Fitz]

Re: fear-ability

 

Offensive PRE is good for things that are immediately frightening (the BOO! factor). For critters that exude a sort of fear "aura" (like demons and what-not) I generally give them an AoE PRE Drain, so that anyone in the vicinity becomes progressively less and less able to resist their scariness.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: fear-ability

 

Presense is how Fear is generally handled in the HERO System. You can buy PRE for "Offensive Use Only"

 

You could also get esoteric and do things like DRAIN vs PRE followed by a PRE Attack, or use the Reputation PERK to generate more dice of PRE attack, but at any rate the PRE rules are there to be used for free and handles fear perfectly.

[Greatwyrm]

Re: fear-ability

 

PRE is the best way to handle simple fear. If you wanted, you could also try Mind Control (issue command "flee").

 

If something was really terrifying, it might have a Transform (Mental) power that inflicted a semi-permanent phobia of the creature.

[Old Man]

Re: fear-ability

 

It occurs to me (all of a sudden) that it would be easy to modify the PRE rules to handle Cthulhu-like SAN loss. If we suppose PRE to be 'STUN' in a PRE attack, then we could count EGO as 'BODY'; then we could simply count up the BODY of a PRE attack in a normal-dice way and apply it to EGO. Then the only question is what happens when you run out of EGO.

[Outsider]

Re: fear-ability

 

Gibber gibber...

[Old Man]

Re: fear-ability

 

Oh come on, I didn't even do anything extremely violent!

 

 

Yet...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: fear-ability

 

No, Old Man, I think that's genius. Pure, absolute genius. Makes sense as well, considering that ECV is already a stat, SAN is an easily derived stat from the same math that gives us STUN, but using Mentals instead of Physicals... d00d.

 

SAN = EGO + (INT/2 + PRE/2). Voila.

 

Rep.

[Old Man]

Re: fear-ability

 

That's pretty clean, all right. Though I usually try to stay away from adding characteristics to a game that's already got 14... so what should happen when SAN or EGO reach 0?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: fear-ability

 

For me, it totally depends on how the fear is being generated:

 

BOO!: Extra PRE, only to cause fear.

 

Aura of Fear: XD6 Mind Control, AE (usually 1 Hex or Radius) Continuous, No Range, Emotion Only (fear)

 

This guy is creepy!: Change Environment: -X OCV (hesitate to attack this guy) Personal immunity, No Range

 

Impressive Aura: Drain Ego, Personal Immunity, AE-Radius. (a warrior who's prowess on the field of battle is so impressive that all who see him are in awe of him. This causes PRE attacks to be much easier, both to cause fear in his foes and inspire his comrades)

 

See, lots of diffferent ways

[Markdoc]

Re: fear-ability

 

That's pretty clean' date=' all right. Though I usually try to stay away from adding characteristics to a game that's already got 14... so what should happen when SAN or EGO reach 0?[/quote']

 

0 to -10: develop a phobia

-11 to -20: develop a neurosis

-21 to -30: develop a psychosis

-31 or lower: GM's option - collapse and go catatonic, flip out like a ninja and kill people, become "enlightened" and decide to help the elder gods enter the physical world, etc.

 

Just off the cuff.

 

cheers, Mark

[Thia Halmades]

Re: fear-ability

 

Because everyone knows:

 

Ninjas flip out and kill people.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: fear-ability

 

You might allow Sanity Defense to balance that - PRE/5 or INT/5 to reduce the "BODY" damage of the attack. That way a 3d6 Fear Attack isn't eroding your sanity.

 

Then use the partial transform rules to handle the erosion. When Sanity Loss = 2/3 EGO, cosmetic transform (nervous tick, drooling, etc.). When Sanity Loss = 4/3 EGO, minor transform (minor phobias, disorders, etc.). When Sanitly Loss = 2*EGO, major transofrm (insane).

[hancock.tom]

Re: fear-ability

 

 

SAN = EGO + (INT/2 + PRE/2). Voila.

 

 

This is a fantastic idea, but I'm not so sure about how intelligence score is being used here. I know you were just throwing in all the mental scores, but I'm just not sure if intelligence makes you less/more likely to go insane.

 

Higher intelligence typically means a greater understanding of what you are looking at. In most horror settings, especially Cthulhu, anyone who actually understood the horrors they were facing would likely go insane on the spot, while those who didn't really understand might last a while longer, not realizing the futility of their world.

 

It will be interesting to see how this gets handled in Horror HERO. If I was writing the book, I might include rules like these as "optional" and also include write ups on how to do everything with the rules we already have. As people have mentioned, things like AoE PRE drains and whatnot work pretty well.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: fear-ability

 

Point yielded, the argument can go either way. I'm arguing two things:

 

1. It's good to have a balanced stat. Easily agreed upon. My view of INT in this case:

 

- The ability to dissect, compartmentalize, and look at things objectively is a trait of intelligence. For some people it would be an asset, for others possibly a liability, but it in part explains how high level priests get as much information as they do without going wango bonzers. Basically, I'm saying that your Intelligence gives it own sort of defense as your mind attempts to defend itself from the more SAN loss heavy facts you can pick up.

 

Easily arguable for or against, while I eschew "YMMV" arguments, this could easily be one of them. Also, the second possible argument is that we're talking about the gestalt of an individuals mental acumen, and may not be looking at "INT" directly; it's simply part of the overall strength of their mind, and as such contributes to defense.

 

Obviously anyone who spends too long looking into the abyss becomes Soul Food in a whole new way.

[hancock.tom]

Re: fear-ability

 

I guess whether or not intelligence effects your sanity score sort of depends on the personality of the character. I can picture some characters reacting better because they are smarter and others reacting worse because they are smarter.

 

Its possible intelligence doesn't effect it either way, and that in many stories, intelligence is just a SFX for someone's EGO/PRE, or perhaps SFX for the PRE (only as defense -1)

 

For example, the intelligent scientist able to withstand knowledge of the beyond because of his own cognitive skills vs. the big dumb lug who is too stupid to stop punching the thing from beyond.

 

I'm sure we will get a nice treatment of this issue in horror hero whenever that comes out. Does anyone know who is going to be writing that one? I know Ken Hite is the obvious choice, but I wondered if anyone has heard anything, or something was posted that I missed.

 

PS, Thia, I think we have officially thread-jacked this into a horror hero thread

[Thia Halmades]

Re: fear-ability

 

Which is fine with me, as Horror is one of my preferred sub-genres, because that's just how I roll. I'm down with a thread-jacking and a drive by, yo.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: fear-ability

 

I'm not sure the idea of Sanity Loss as stun damage is all that useful. I think the PRE attack mechanic is still valid and represents the fight or flight reaction. The BODY damage from that attack would represent the slow erosion of the mind, but there has to be some resistance to it just like there is for PD and Normal Damage. That's why I suggested INT/5 (just like PD = STR/5), and that you could buy it up if you want.

 

I would also suggest that after an encounter you make an EGO roll (or something similar) to determine if the Sanity Loss (PRE Attack BODY damage) was permanent or not. A successful roll will restore the Sanity Loss in REC per day of rest, while permanent is REC per month of rest (and no exposure). REC in this instance should be INT/5 + PRE/5. By having Sanity Loss being possibly temporary, you could have someone go totally insane, only to recover a day later (although they would still be close to the edge).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: fear-ability

 

Eh, why not both? You have BODY as a score, and you have PD/ED. So why not to SAN as a derived stat, and then use ECV to go along with it? The mechanics don't significantly change, and ECV would certainly represent SAN defense just as well as anything else.

 

Standard Rule: Normal +DEF CSLs for ECV do not apply to SAN loss.

Standard Rule: SAN Defense cannot be improved. There are things the mind was never meant to accept, and in a horror setting, buying up SAN DEF would really. REALLY. Defeat the purpose.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: fear-ability

 

I'm just not sure having Sanity "STUN" would add anything that isn't already handled by the PRE attack table. That's all. Adding something to the existing system (PRE Attack) seems like a cool thing for a genre specific rule, but redefining it seems gratuitous.

 

I'm sure it can work I just think that PRE attack handles the shock of a situation just fine. Long term affects would make that cool.

 

The way I've handled it in my horror games is an EGO roll for every true horror moment (not every PRE attack). EGO Transform (i.e. Sanity Loss) equals the results of the roll: success by > half = no effect, by 3 or more = 1 per 3d6, by 0 to 2 = 1 per 2d6, failure = 1 per 1d6, failure by 4 or more = 1.5 per 1d6, failure by 7+ or nat. 18 = 2 per 1d6. So, an 8d6 PRE attack might cause 4 EGO transform if the EGO roll is a success.

[Guest taxboy4]

Re: fear-ability

 

Offensive PRE is good for things that are immediately frightening (the BOO! factor). For critters that exude a sort of fear "aura" (like demons and what-not) I generally give them an AoE PRE Drain' date=' so that anyone in the vicinity becomes progressively less and less able to resist their scariness.[/quote']

 

like, I like

 

is there a defense to drain, or can i just insidiously drop it...

[Markdoc]

Re: fear-ability

 

Because everyone knows:

 

Ninjas flip out and kill people.

 

When they're not hanging around airports getting sucked into jet engines.

 

Cheers, Mark