Learning Curve?

[xulwolf]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

At first it was hard to grasp the terminology and it seemed a little overwhelming. Then I understood that I did have total freedom and it was liberating. Then I was overwhelmed by the total freedom. Now I realize that every other system claims that the game master is god and can do what he wants, but only with the Hero System is this true.

[kave99]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

there was a time when the BBB came with a copy of hero maker, dos Any one Else think it would be a good idea to do the same H5R and HD. the learning curve for play is a lot less steep then for character generation. perhaps a time sensitive down load? just a thought

[archermoo]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

there was a time when the BBB came with a copy of hero maker' date=' dos Any one Else think it would be a good idea to do the same H5R and HD. the learning curve for play is a lot less steep then for character generation. perhaps a time sensitive down load? just a thought[/quote']

 

Well, you could purchase a copy of BBB with Hero Maker, but it cost a lot more. As I recall it was pretty much close to the price of Hero Maker more expensive. I suppose they could do a package deal with HD and 5ER...

[Lucius]

Learning Curve?

 

First, there are at least 3 different curves to consider.

 

1. Learning to play. This is the easiest thing, and assumes someone hands you a character and the fireworks start. Knowing how to roll for your skills, how many dice to roll for your power, how to mark off damage and END, etc.

 

2. Learning to be a player. This means understanding how to create a character and how to spend XP to improve it. It means knowing what your options are - and they are considerable.

 

3. Learning to run a game. This is the most challenging. Theroticially it could be split up like the first two (running a scenario and designing a scenario are two different things) but in practice it's probably best to think of it as one thing.

 

As for what people mean by "long" - I think that means that it isn't that hard to learn the basics (not "steep") but that once you do, there is still a LOT to be learned. Even for the first "curve" I enumerated, after that first game you can continue to learn about manuevers, skill modifiers, and other options in play.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I'm still learning about the palindromedary

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Well' date=' you could purchase a copy of BBB with Hero Maker, but it cost a lot more. As I recall it was pretty much close to the price of Hero Maker more expensive. I suppose they could do a package deal with HD and 5ER...[/quote']

 

Absolutely, a package deal of this sort would be great! If DOJ were to offer such a thing when HDv3 is released, I'd jump on it!

[HeroGM]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

And knowing current hero prices you'd be paying $75+ for book and software.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

And knowing current hero prices you'd be paying $75+ for book and software.

 

If they packaged them together fo $70-$75 it would be a great deal though.

[Shike019]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Currently buying both 5er and Hero Designer is about $100, so 75 is a great deal.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I'm with Alice in that when I learned HERO is wasn't hard, the curve itself wasn't steep. I could pick things up relatively quickly.

 

But getting it all... man was that a long hike. Sure, the climb was easy, it just took a while. I think it took me a good 2 years to be completely proficient.

 

And even then I wasn't totally aware of what HERO did until I started to GM, granted a short lived endeavor on my part (I'm actually a terrible GM...).

 

Steep Learning Curves would be needing to go over the material multiple times to "get it". A Long Learning Curve means you're going over new material constantly (vs backtracking all the time) but there's just a ton of material to cover.

[kave99]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

i just had a Epiphany sidekick and a truncated version HD to match sidekick all at a really low price. most of use hear don't need or want it but it would help the newbies tremendously . i haven't seen sidekick but if extra-dimensional movement is not in it then HDsidekick would says this "power not available in sidekick please purchase H5R and or HDv3 at www.herogames.com" i think that curiosity would sell the books/ program as the protoherogamer emerge.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Currently buying both 5er and Hero Designer is about $100' date=' so 75 is a great deal.[/quote']

 

WHAT?!?! I thought 50 plus 30 was 80... what went up in price?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Neither... it's still 50$ + 30$ ... unless one is paying unhappy taxes and/or shipping.

[Shike019]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

WHAT?!?! I thought 50 plus 30 was 80... what went up in price?

 

 

I payed $45 for 5er (damaged copy) and $45 for the CD of HD (use on multiple platforms). For a total of $95 +tax/shipping. The online store has HD selling for no less than $39.99 and that is for the download verson. so buying a damaged book and downloading for a single platform costs $85.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I payed $45 for 5er (damaged copy) and $45 for the CD of HD (use on multiple platforms). For a total of $95 +tax/shipping. The online store has HD selling for no less than $39.99 and that is for the download verson. so buying a damaged book and downloading for a single platform costs $85.

 

Well crap, I'm glad I got in on HD when the download was only $30.

 

Of corse, I'll still have to by HDv3 eventually.

[Gadodel]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I'm with Alice in that when I learned HERO is wasn't hard, the curve itself wasn't steep. I could pick things up relatively quickly.

 

But getting it all... man was that a long hike. Sure, the climb was easy, it just took a while. I think it took me a good 2 years to be completely proficient.

 

And even then I wasn't totally aware of what HERO did until I started to GM, granted a short lived endeavor on my part (I'm actually a terrible GM...).

 

Steep Learning Curves would be needing to go over the material multiple times to "get it". A Long Learning Curve means you're going over new material constantly (vs backtracking all the time) but there's just a ton of material to cover.

 

Absolutely. Most people look at the reading, writing and math aspects of HERO, but forget to remember to be patient.

[archermoo]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Well crap, I'm glad I got in on HD when the download was only $30.

 

Of corse, I'll still have to by HDv3 eventually.

 

To the best of my knowledge the physical CD for HD v2 is and has always been $44.99. Also to the best of my knowledge the download of HD v2 is and has always been $39.99. I'll grant I could be mistaken about the prices having not changed, as I didn't purchase either (I purchased the upgrade), but I'm pretty sure the price hasn't gone up. I know the upgrade version is the same price it always was ($19.99).

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Am I the only one here who never heard of the game until I saw the book in the store? My friends mentioned trying out a new game from D&D 3rd edition so I browsed the local store. HERO caught my eye because it was soooo thick! I read the intro and I was hooked immediately.

 

I read FRED and Star Hero during an overseas business trip, so I learned all the rules from scratch. It was certainly a lot to take in but I think I retained a lot of it.

 

Anyway, the rules make good sense to me and I've run a pretty good Star Hero campaign so far for about 12 game sessions. My players still struggle with some of the rules from time to time. One guy wrote 9+(DEX/5) in the roll column for all his DEX skills and he has to calculate the value to roll under every time. I patiently tell him to write the number in there every time. It's become a bit of a joke now, I think he does it on purpose LOL. They also make fun of the sheer numebr of dice they have to roll. "Alright so I'm shooting my plasma rifle on non-lethal setting, 10d6! Geez that's a lot of counting!" I guess they never played Warhammer.

[casualplayer]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Am I the only one here who never heard of the game until I saw the book in the store? My friends mentioned trying out a new game from D&D 3rd edition so I browsed the local store. HERO caught my eye because it was soooo thick! I read the intro and I was hooked immediately.

 

I read FRED and Star Hero during an overseas business trip, so I learned all the rules from scratch. It was certainly a lot to take in but I think I retained a lot of it.

 

Anyway, the rules make good sense to me and I've run a pretty good Star Hero campaign so far for about 12 game sessions. My players still struggle with some of the rules from time to time. One guy wrote 9+(DEX/5) in the roll column for all his DEX skills and he has to calculate the value to roll under every time. I patiently tell him to write the number in there every time. It's become a bit of a joke now, I think he does it on purpose LOL. They also make fun of the sheer numebr of dice they have to roll. "Alright so I'm shooting my plasma rifle on non-lethal setting, 10d6! Geez that's a lot of counting!" I guess they never played Warhammer.

 

Hearing this story makes me weep with joy to know people like you still occur. Ah, to be reminded that we aren't gaming iconoclasts. Well, at least not entirely.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I'm glad I could make you weep with joy. The only problem I have now is finding another person to GM so I actually get to, ya know, be a player.

[casualplayer]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I'm glad I could make you weep with joy. The only problem I have now is finding another person to GM so I actually get to' date=' ya know, be a player.[/quote']

 

Only took me 8 years to finally get to play. DragonCon '91 in San Mateo, CA.

[Furry Fox]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

Hero system is fairly simple and easy to play. As a system it makes far more sense than the AD&D systems. Especially the earlier 1st/2nd editions of AD&D. I have never had a problem with character creation or understanding the general mechanics of the game.

 

However Hero combat and action scenes can be complex and require numerous checking/rechecking of the FAQ for unusual situations which tend to crop off often. In many cases there might even be a conflict between what makes dramatic sense and the rules. It is in these situations that a wisened and experienced GM will really make the difference.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I'm glad I could make you weep with joy. The only problem I have now is finding another person to GM so I actually get to' date=' ya know, be a player.[/quote']

 

Are there any game or comic book conventions in your area? Going to conventions is how I've found every Hero GM I've ever met, besides my girlfriend, but she's still learning.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I honestly have no idea. How would I find out?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

I honestly have no idea. How would I find out?

 

Start with your Friendly Local Game Store. They'll usually have fliers out for upcoming conventions and events, and if not, ask a salesperson.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Learning Curve?

 

You know, I've been thinking about this. I have come to the conclusion that Hero is absolutely no harder to learn than most other RPGs. Not a bit. It might in fact be a tad easier to learn because of the high degree of logical consistency.

 

What makes it seem harder to learn is that everyone and their monkey has played another RPG (most likely D&D), and most other RPGs are quite different from Hero, in approach and philosophy if not in actual mechanics. That means that in order to learn Hero, players often have to unlearn at least some of the crap other RPGs have taught them: a lot of bad habbits; a lot of preconceived notions about a gaming, "system" (toolkit is a lot different from pre-packaged open-it-up-and-roll-the-dice); a lot of set notions about SFX ("Wait: it is either a fireball or a lightning bolt; how can it be something in between, and why isn't that other damage defined as either acid, fire, cold, or electricity?").

 

I have had experience teaching players Hero who are new to roleplaying systems, and it never seems quite as bad as, for example, bringing a D&D player on-board. This may also explain the wide variety in different experiences: while people may have some diversity in their ability to quickly learn something, it is far more difficult to let go your past experiences in order to learn something that doesn't fit their mold:

Indeed he knows not how to know who knows not also how to unknow.

-- Sir Richard Burton

EDIT: The pre-existing knowledge of another gaming system may also contribute to laziness in picking up a new one, especially one that is perceived as, "complicated," or, "difficult." When you have a wheel already that seems to function well enough, why go through all the effort of building a new one, almost from scratch?