Capt JT Kohonez Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I always found it curious how humans are relegated to a purely cattle position in V:TM and W:TA as well as the Underworld movies. Has anyone considered for a moment that humans are the ones who came with things like the A-Bomb, Biological and Chemical weapons and that in a universe where magic exists there just might be a small chance that Joe Kohonez and crew might be doing some damage of their own? But I guess that blows the whole mystique around the whole vampire/werewolf thing when you can kill or disable 'em by spraying a suspected area with garlic powder, holy water or silver nitrates from the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I always found it curious how humans are relegated to a purely cattle position in V:TM and W:TA as well as the Underworld movies. That because humans don't have a sufficient coolness factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt JT Kohonez Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves That because humans don't have a sufficient coolness factor. Not even Chuck Norris!!? And what about Ninjas!!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Not even Chuck Norris!!? And what about Ninjas!!? Not gothy or angsty enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt JT Kohonez Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Not gothy or angsty enough. Not even Ninjas with black lipstick and nailpolish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Not even Ninjas with black lipstick and nailpolish?Why do I have this sudden mental picture of Whoppi Goldberg as a ninja? Answer: because I'm weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt JT Kohonez Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Why do I have this sudden mental picture of Whoppi Goldberg as a ninja? Answer: because I'm weird. Yeah, and she partners up with Chuck Norris in THE OCTOGAN 2 1/2 !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves From what I understand of the World of Darkness (I have a friend who likes reading the backstory and buys the books) - Humans are only cattle. All major achievements - social, political and technology - have been the result of supernatural creatures manipulating them in some manner or other. Whether it's vampires or werewolves or mages or wraiths or even changelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Not gothy or angsty enough. Jack Bauer is angsty enough. Of course if Jack Bauer meets a clutch of goths, the only reason they'll be conscious is he won't feel like carrying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I always found it curious how humans are relegated to a purely cattle position in V:TM and W:TA as well as the Underworld movies. Has anyone considered for a moment that humans are the ones who came with things like the A-Bomb, Biological and Chemical weapons and that in a universe where magic exists there just might be a small chance that Joe Kohonez and crew might be doing some damage of their own? But I guess that blows the whole mystique around the whole vampire/werewolf thing when you can kill or disable 'em by spraying a suspected area with garlic powder, holy water or silver nitrates from the air. It's also the logical position for people who feed off humans to take, in the long run. If they actually allowed themselves to think of humans as, well, human, then they'd find it hard to justify their continued existance. Personally, I prefer playing with that, and actually having characters deal with the dissonance between "humans are cattle" and "humans are people" and "humans are a power in their own right". As I recall, in the official WOD, World War II was supposed to be a purely human thing - not caused by the various Supernatural Beasties. Although I think Eva Braun was a Ghoul or somesuch, and the Get of Fenris werewolves got involved in the Nazi party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Occasionally Jack might get beaten up by vamps and werewolves - that way he can display his sensitive side. The prerequesite is that he's tortured first. This actually applies to both Beur and Bristow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I always found it curious how humans are relegated to a purely cattle position in V:TM and W:TA as well as the Underworld movies. In the Whitewolf games? Hardly! They may be largely clueless, but they are far from cattle (except maybe in the attitudes of some of the WoD creatures--such as most vampires). Most werewolves, and almost all worldly mages and changelings, consider humans and humanity their wards, and all Awakened creatures fear humans to a great extent. Vampires won't admit it, but they don't treat humans like cattle. In fact their most strict Tradition is the Masquerade; you don't hide from cattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves As I recall' date=' in the official WOD, World War II was supposed to be a purely human thing - not caused by the various Supernatural Beasties. Although I think Eva Braun was a Ghoul or somesuch, and the Get of Fenris werewolves got involved in the Nazi party.[/quote'] I think Von D-Man has stated elsewhere that in the whole WoD, the only actually 'human' being who amounted to anything in history was Adolf Hitler. Everyone else was a supernatural. As I recall, they had 3-4 versions of Rasputin running around; two vampires, a werewolf, and a mage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves It has no basis in folklore. In some Eastern European vampire myths' date=' vampires were werewolves![/quote'] Welllll... though never specifially identified as vampires, the werewolf-like Benandanti did kill witches, demons, and things called 'Malandanti'. A vampire could be described as an 'evil walker [after death]'. And I believe that the gypsies thought that wolves were natural enemies of vampires, especially the Polish child-vamp the ustrel. "If not for them, the vampires would make much evil." But the way it was presented in WoD? No, never in real-world myths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I think Von D-Man has stated elsewhere that in the whole WoD, the only actually 'human' being who amounted to anything in history was Adolf Hitler. Everyone else was a supernatural. As I recall, they had 3-4 versions of Rasputin running around; two vampires, a werewolf, and a mage. Well, keep in mind that each WoD supplement is (or at least was) purposefully written from the point of view of the main topic of that supplement. Thus, VtM implies Kindred are behind everything, WtA implies Garou are behind everything, and MtA implies mages are behind everything (of course, it just so happens that Mage is right--and I have no bias there, I assure you ). Before the Third Edition books they were even vague about many things ("So and so is suspected of having been a..."). I personally appreciated that a lot more than their more recent habbit of telling you absolutely everything about world events as if it were concrete and certain. How WoD an approach is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Just about all pieces of fiction about vampires I have ever seen has agreed about one thing: natural animals can detect something wrong about vampires and act very strangely around them. Wolves may just be an instance of that. Where wolves are/were more common and/or a powerful cultural symbol I find that explanation of such a conflict believable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I have some vague memory of legends of either Werewolves that, when killed, came back as Vampires, or the other way around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves There's also Albanian vampires that are of interest - Vrkolak - they break bones, suck out marrow, much fingers and are completely invisible. They can only be seen by Dhampir - the half human children of women raped by Vrkolak. http://www.shroudeater.com/vampv.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azato Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Where wolves.. There wolves! There castle. (Sorry, I couldn't resist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves There wolves! There castle. (Sorry, I couldn't resist) Frau Blücher!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Vampires are gay and werewolves are straight. Wha!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Nah - I'd say werewolves are zoophiles, not straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I always thought the ancient feud was something like this: (To the opening of the television series The Incredible Hulk) Dr. David Heilsing. Physician. Scientist. Searching for a way to destroy the hidden scourge that feeds on all humanity. Then an accidental lycanthopic bite of supernatural origin alters his body chemistry. And, now, when Dr. Heilsing grows angry or outraged, a startling metamorphosis occurs. (Music swells) The werewolf is driven by rage, and is pursued by his supernatural enemy... "Mina Harper, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves I always found it curious how humans are relegated to a purely cattle position in V:TM and W:TA as well as the Underworld movies. Has anyone considered for a moment that humans are the ones who came with things like the A-Bomb, Biological and Chemical weapons and that in a universe where magic exists there just might be a small chance that Joe Kohonez and crew might be doing some damage of their own? But I guess that blows the whole mystique around the whole vampire/werewolf thing when you can kill or disable 'em by spraying a suspected area with garlic powder, holy water or silver nitrates from the air. Good point. Ah, now the discussion gets interesting. From what I understand of the World of Darkness (I have a friend who likes reading the backstory and buys the books) - Humans are only cattle. All major achievements - social' date=' political and technology - have been the result of supernatural creatures manipulating them in some manner or other. Whether it's vampires or werewolves or mages or wraiths or even changelings.[/quote'] Mages ARE Human. That because humans don't have a sufficient coolness factor. Depends on the Human. See above. In the Whitewolf games? Hardly! They may be largely clueless' date=' but they are far from cattle (except maybe in the [i']attitudes[/i] of some of the WoD creatures--such as most vampires). Most werewolves, and almost all worldly mages and changelings, consider humans and humanity their wards, and all Awakened creatures fear humans to a great extent. Vampires won't admit it, but they don't treat humans like cattle. In fact their most strict Tradition is the Masquerade; you don't hide from cattle. I saw it in the first Blade movie (haven’t seen the rest.) The Council of Elders or whatever they were called were upset that this brash young vampire was going to draw attention – he was breaking the “pact†the secret agreement with the Human authorities. An agreement made not for the Vampires’ convenience, but their protection. Ever notice how often our “monsters†are absolutely terrified of US? Reminds me of something I thought while reading the Harry Potter books, where the magical world has a Masquerade of its own. When the magicians – who I notice are often portrayed as amusingly ignorant of “muggles†– get all superior and snide, I want to walk into the book, and say “Excuse me – you know this ‘unforgiveable curse’ watchamacallit, the most powerful spell there is, that strikes a person dead instantly? ONE person? Muggles have weapons capable of killing most of the people in a city. At one stroke. And the rest will probably wish they were dead. You haven’t SEEN ‘unforgiveable.’ Oh, and those broomsticks you think are so impressive? That carry one comfortably, maybe two? Muggles have devices that transport people through the air by hundreds. No, this incredibly powerful cultural taboo you have to keep yourselves secret from muggles isn’t there to protect them from YOU. Your ancestors were wise enough to create and enforce and pass down this unbreakable taboo to protect you from THEM. If this Voldemort fool ignores that taboo so blatantly he ends up sparking a muggle-wizard war, he’ll wish he’d done something safer, like sign on at Hogwarts to teach Defense against the Dark Arts.†Lucius Alexander The palindromedary reminds me I’m due at work….oh fewmets….gotta run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Curiousity about vampires and werewolves Humans would make up for defeciencies with tech. Course, the numbers of vampires and werewolves are likely incredibly small compared to humans. If the humans were to know about them and know their locations. They could wipe them out/thin their population by sheer numbers alone. 5 billion humans. Werewolves and vampires dont know but the way it is always done it would seem reasonable that their numbers would more than likely be in the thousands. Quite a few extinct species can tell you what happens when they come in contact with humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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