"Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

[transmetahuman]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

I prefer agnostic worlds. I wouldn't let in a PC (or NPC) whose origin implied that one religion was the Truth, and I personally can't suspend my disbelief of those attempts to create cosmologies where "they're all pretty much right; they just differ in the details". So: no holy, unholy, angelic, saintly etc. characters; no Norse or Egyptian or Celtic or Aztec or (etc. etc.) gods; DEFINITELY no objective Good or Evil; nuthin.

 

What the character believes his powers stem from is another matter, but I wouldn't let a player get blindsided by that and be made to feel his character is a fool. It's fine if that's what the player wants, though, and there are definitely NPCs like that.

 

For one supernatural oriented campaign, I came up with a shiny new cosmology that allowed for/explained (and therefore limited the concepts of) ghosts, different afterlives, a not-intinsically-evil (but usually pretty nasty) kind of demon, occasional reincarnation, magic in general, alternate universes (but NO time travel or precog, my other inflexible character ban), telepathic abilities, dream realms, and probably a few things I'm forgetting. No creator, no objective good or evil.

 

But every religious person in that world was just plain wrong, so I wouldn't want to use that for a generic superhero world. Better to just let things be unknowable.

 

If someone just *has* to play a ghost or reincarnated spirit or something, I guess I might let em, so long as they don't know the big answers either.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

DEFINITELY no objective Good or Evil; nuthin.

 

 

Interesting.

 

That is always the starting point of any of my games - that there is an objective Good and Evil, and it is knowable by the characters. I do this especially in Fantasy campaigns, but also in superheroes. But then I am what is usually labeled a Fundamentalist Christian by the media (if not a cult by the fringe media), and I just could not run a world where that wasn't the case.

 

I don't make a huge deal out of it, and push the agenda, it's just in the background. Now more than half of my group shares my faith, and the other ones accept that in the running of the game, so it has never caused a problem.

 

But my Champs game are all gilded iron or "rose colored glasses" silver/bronze and I expect the characters to be good guys in my champs games.

 

When I ran a D&D game for the game shop I worked at, I warned all the players they had to have Good aligned characters, and play them that way, and to think of the GM as an invisible Paladin in the group that would punish them for straying to far outside Good. I like my heroes heroic when I gm. It might bother people, and I know that not everyone would be willing to play in such a game, but I was running it for people I didn't know, and went a little draconian.

[transmetahuman]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

But my Champs game are all gilded iron or "rose colored glasses" silver/bronze and I expect the characters to be good guys in my champs games.

 

When I ran a D&D game for the game shop I worked at, I warned all the players they had to have Good aligned characters, and play them that way, and to think of the GM as an invisible Paladin in the group that would punish them for straying to far outside Good. I like my heroes heroic when I gm. It might bother people, and I know that not everyone would be willing to play in such a game, but I was running it for people I didn't know, and went a little draconian.

I like my heroes heroic, too. They're the good guys, and they should act like it. I don't want to play in a game with selfish jerk "heroes"; I don't even want to read about them in comics. But there is no objective standard; no supernatural consequences for choosing the wrong hierarchy of values - if one character chooses to value selflessness above honor, or vice-versa, or defines "honor" in a way that our culture finds strange... the only consequences will be social. My only concern is that the PCs are likeable, can work together as a team, and have some plausible, heroic reason to want to risk their lives protecting the presumably innocent.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

My only concern is that the PCs are likeable' date=' can work together as a team, and have some plausible, heroic reason to want to risk their lives protecting the presumably innocent.[/quote']

 

Makes sense to me.

 

Aside from the "good vs evil war" in a fantasy game, I think that my cosmology has hit the game board once. I leave it off screen, and it is just something there for me as GM to know.

[Solomon]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

Though I am an Agnostic (lapsed Catholic) myself, I like religious themes in my games. Let's face it, religious narrative is powerful narrative and it can add a lot to a game when dealt with properly (ie with due respect).

 

I tend to use religious themes in my horror games mostly. I've never made a religion-based character for my Champions campaign, though, because the focus of the game is psionics and high-tech.

[Zeropoint]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

I, too, prefer protagonists to be heroes. I believe in objective good and evil, and these concepts exist in my fantasy world. However, while it's easy for a character to be good or evil, it's very hard for a mortal character to be Good or Evil. Most supernatural beings and immortal beings are also of "lower-case" status.

 

Regarding superheroes, while I find the astral realms presented in The Mystic World to be somewhat cheesy, I do like the fact that they provide a way for characters to be connected to a supernatural source of real power, while at the same time providing a "buffer" of sorts between the players and a decision about the true nature of the divine.

 

Actually, "cheesy" isn't the right word. "Empty" would be better. Sure, there's a "heaven" there, but it's not the real thing. There's a being that calls itself god, but it's not really Him, just a cheap imitation.

 

In any case, a character who has a religion shouldn't be a problem in and of itself, any more than a person in the real world having a religion is.

 

Zeropoint

[proditor]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

One of my friends has a concept he wants to try out if I start running again. Character Name: Eucharist

Concept: Weapon Master

Weapon: The Spear of Longinus

 

In many ways, my friend sees this guy as a modern paladin using a faith based weapon that he doesn't completely understand. So he'd start out with some healing abilities, blessings, and simple banishments. But as he grew in understanding, and backed by his strong faith, he'd gain access to more powers.

 

The idea at least intruiges me enough to consider it.

[Trebuchet]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

In a Dark Champions game I'm currently in I play Justicar, a Batmanesque character in a cloak with powers based upon the Power of God. He has Fist of God, +PRE, a FW, Detect supernatural evil, exorcism, healing, etc. Picture him as the equivalent of a D&D cleric. In his secret ID he's a Roman Catholic priest and Jesuit; a member of the Vatican's secret group of supers. Justicar's powers may or may not be actually granted by God, but he truly believes they are and must have a crucifix in order to use them (There's one as a cloak clasp on his costume). He seldom actually uses the holy powers, preferring to stick to the shadows and use martial arts and his baton/grappling hook to administer justice.

[Zeropoint]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

*I* wouldn't let a player have the Spear of Longinus. It would make a crappy weapon anyway, it's broken.

 

I wouldn't mind a player having Durendal (from The Song of Roland), though.

[Lightray]

I wouldn't mind a player having Durendal (from The Song of Roland)' date=' though.[/quote']

Ob nothing in particular, Durandal is supposidly in a shrine in Rocamadeur, France. I had Morgan le Fey arrange for it to be stolen in my game recently.

 

The Spear of Longinus has a long and storied history in comics, though. It's the Spear of Destiny -- which played a big part in the JSA backstory; it was the artifact that Hitler had which kept superheroes from interfering in WWII.

 

Even beyond the Christian apocrypha it appears in, it also shows up in Arthurian legend as a bleeding lance, or as a fiery lance, which often attacks of its own volition knights who are unworthy. Certainly something that could be adapted to Champions, I'd think. (particularly if it's wielder became 'unworthy'...)

[Powerhouse]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

Here's an unfinished character. Basically he was an agent of the Catholic Church: one of its investigators who looked into stuff like supposed possessions. He's also a scholar. One day he came across a sword from the Crusades that, when activated, gives him his powers which include the sword itself and armor/shield. I went onto some other stuff since though. I never decided how much of a focus his armor and blade were, ie could they be taken from him. So, in unfinished and rough draft form:

 

Brightblade

 

Player:

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

23 DEX 39

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

13 INT 3

15 EGO 10

20 PRE 10

14 COM 2

 

8/20 PD 4

8/18 ED 4

5 SPD 17

8 REC 0

40 END 0

32 STUN 0

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

4" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 123

 

Cost Power

52 Swordplay: Multipower, 52-point reserve

5u 1) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6+1 (3 1/2d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (52 Active Points)

5u 2) Spirit Blade: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6+1 (3d6 w/STR), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2) (52 Active Points)

3u 3) Flat of the Blade: Hand-To-Hand Attack +7d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)

31 Holy Powers: Multipower, 31-point reserve

3u 1) Consecration: Change Environment: creates holy ground 16" radius, Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (31 Active Points)

1u 2) Consecration: Minor Transform 3d6 (Water into Holy Water) (30 Active Points); Limited Target ([Very Limited]; -1)

3u 3) Laying on of Hands: Healing BODY 3d6 (30 Active Points)

33 Armor (12 PD/10 ED)

21 Missile Deflection (Bullets & Shrapnel), + 3 levels

5 Mental Defense (8 points total)

Powers Cost: 162

 

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

Boxing

5 1) Jab: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +3 DCV, 4d6 Strike

4 2) Boxing Cross: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 6d6 Strike

5 3) Hook: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 8d6 Strike

4 4) Guard: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

3 5) Clinch: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 30 STR for holding on

Martial Arts Cost: 21

 

Cost Skill

3 Deduction 12-

3 Oratory 13-

3 Scholar

2 1) KS: European History (3 Active Points) 12-

2 2) KS: Religion (3 Active Points) 12-

2 3) KS: Supernatural Monsters (3 Active Points) 12-

3 PS: Priest 12-

3 PS: Paranormal Investigator 12-

6 +2 with swords

5 +1 with HTH Combat

Skills Cost: 32

 

Cost Perk

2 Reputation: Noble hero with deep religious beliefs (A large group) 11-, +1/+1d6

6 Contact: Cardinal in the Vatican (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has: very useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) 11-

1 Fringe Benefit: International Driver's License

1 Fringe Benefit: Right to Marry: Can perform the marriage ceremony

3 Fringe Benefit: Priest

Perks Cost: 13

 

 

Total Character Cost: 351

 

Pts. Disadvantage

20 Psychological Limitation: Code of the Hero (Very Common, Strong)

20 Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing (Common, Total)

10 Psychological Limitation: Devout Catholic (Common, Strong, Custom Adder)

20 Hunted: DEMON 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: Devil's Advocates 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: Black Paladin 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15 Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major

15 Social Limitation: Subject to Orders from the Church (Frequently, Major)

Disadvantage Points: 130

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 21

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Zeropoint]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

I realize that the Spear of Destiny is a very powerful artifact--it's just that to me, it seems like the kind of artifact whose power lies in areas other than running around poking people with it.

 

Do you have any links to info on the shrine with Durandal? I'd like to know more about that.

[Lightray]

Do you have any links to info on the shrine with Durandal? I'd like to know more about that.

Unfortunately, it was something I had in my Gaming File, cut-and-pasted from a long-lost thread on RPG.net (darn you, missing RPG.net Search function!). I don't even remember who the original poster was, other than that he was very knowledgable on swords and weapons. Here's the bit (along with a few other famous sword tidbits):

ORLANDO'S was called Durindana or Durindan, which once belonged to Hector, and is said to be still preserved at Rocamadour, in France.

 

It is said that El Cid Campeador (spanish knight/mercenary around the time of the Reconquista that managed to get a very well known romance written about him; you may have seen the Charlton Heston movie) had 2 swords, one by the name of Tizona and other named Colada.

Not clear about the meaning of the name (Tizona means something like "dirtied with ashes" and Colada something like "cleaned", there is some theory about it being a word play about how one was covered in blood and the other was used to clean his owner honor, with blood of course).

 

About Durandal: there an impressive place in the Pyrénées called "la brèche de Roland" - a titanic cut, dozen of meters deep. It was supposedly made by Roland when he tried to break Durandal against rocks, to prevent it to be taken by the Sarrazins. He failed, because Durandal was near indestructible.

 

Got the names of the swords of Turpin and Olivier : it was respectively Almace and Hauteclaire.

[Lucius]

"Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

I use ancient and outdated religions' date=' such as Greek mythology,. .[/quote']

 

“Outdated?â€

 

. However' date=' in my current game someone has asked (and I allowed them) to play the wandering Jew[/url'] from Jewish mythology.

 

Unless I’m much mistaken, the Wandering Jew is from CHRISTIAN mythology. It’s “Jewish mythology†in the sense of being mythology about Jews, not mythology of Jews.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the Wandering Palindromedary

[Kristopher]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

And in case you're looking for a villain with this kind of theme/origin:

 

Coriel, the Broken One

 

 

BTW, to the person who repped me for War Angel...there's no link to PM you, so, thanks. I appreciate the compliment.

 

EDIT: Fixed the link so it actually goes to Coriel...

[Solomon]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

“Outdated?â€

 

Yeah, as in "out of fashion", dude. Togas are sooo gauche.

[SuperKlaus]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

The Argent Apostle, Army chaplain and bearer of mighty silver armor that fell from the sky (from God, why not), has proven a delightful member of my PC group. If nothing else, he can keep the other PCs' squabbling in line with threats of marrying them to each other. Best Fringe Benefit ever.

 

And oh the look on his face when the local rival superteam challenges his officially-sanctioned crimefighting role as a violation of the separation of church and state next game...can't wait.

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

“Outdated?â€

Pretty much, yeah. At least, I haven't met many actual worshipers of the Olympic Pantheon, nor heard of any practicing anywhere.

 

 

 

Unless I’m much mistaken, the Wandering Jew is from CHRISTIAN mythology. It’s “Jewish mythology†in the sense of being mythology about Jews, not mythology of Jews.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the Wandering Palindromedary

 

It's pretty much a Jewish myth, and originated in Jewish circles. The Wandering Jew pretty much symbolized the seeming wandering and immortal nature of the Jewish people. And I've only found referenced to it in Jewish folklore. Anyways, Jesus is a part of Jewish folklore, they just don't think he's the son of God. Then again, the origin of the myth comes from a passage in the New Testiment, so I could just be blowing hot air. I only know what I've read on the subject.

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

Yeah' date=' as in "out of fashion", dude. Togas are sooo gauche.[/quote']

 

Repped!

[OddHat]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

It's pretty much a Jewish myth, and originated in Jewish circles. The Wandering Jew pretty much symbolized the seeming wandering and immortal nature of the Jewish people. And I've only found referenced to it in Jewish folklore. Anyways, Jesus is a part of Jewish folklore, they just don't think he's the son of God. Then again, the origin of the myth comes from a passage in the New Testiment, so I could just be blowing hot air. I only know what I've read on the subject.

 

It's a Christian myth out of Germany. The Wiki article on it is pretty good. The metaphor-for-diaspora bit was tacked on much later.

[Labrat]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

The whole concept of the superhuman is, by Judeo-Christian definition, 'blasphemous'. It is based on man being discontent with waiting on and for God to be our hero, our justice and our vengance. Now that's an extreme POV, and if one follows it through you really can't make any excuses for it... you either agree with it or you don't, but by definition it is undeniable no matter if you are profiting from it or not. If you are serious about being a disciple to the Christ then you would be serious in seeing how rediculous the concept of the 'Christian superhero' is.

 

A true Christian wouldn't 'take to the street' with wild claims about what he or she can do in and of himself, especially if the burden is one of 'crime-fighting'. You wouldn't have any Hero stats for the 'love' and 'peace-making' that goes with this territory. It would make for very boring role-playing, and even worse it would beg the question of 'why would you pretend to do it when you should be out there doing these things' in the first place. The whole idea of the 'Christian Superhero' is laughable, giving testimony as to just how little Christ's teachings are understood in the West. What single individual would be chosen by God to be iconic when Christ is the completion of all God's work? Everything that needs to be 'done' will be 'done' by Christ, all the way up until this dustball returns to nothingness. Remember I speak in a fundamentalist Christian mindset, so some denominationists will feel uncomfortable about this... so make allowances for me and understand that these are my convictions and for me to not say something here in reply to this certain topic would be against those convictions. I write this because I must.

 

RE: Spears, Weapons, Powers, etc. Artifacts are useless to the true Christian tradition. As a matter of fact, they are counter-intuitive to the concept of the Holy Spirit being all that we have been left with and all that we need for the fulfilment of our faith. Sure these relics exist, but if they were lost, stolen or destroyed tomorrow it wouldn't mean a thing to the Spirit's contemporary work. Useless trinkets are meaningless when the Creator who made them can never be lost, stolen or destroyed. It's harmful to engage in such talk... why not just make up a religeon instead of making light of such a serious issue? You'd get further and you could have total freedom when it comes to what you're dealing with.

 

That's my commentary on the topic as addressed. I won't entertain any rebuttals, they just aren't important to me. Take what you wish from this, but know too that the realms of make belief are big enough that you shouldn't have to risk such blatent misrepresentation of the Biblical teachings and offending God unless you're just one to enjoy instigating to begin with. I have even less to say to those who won't at the very least consider this with some maturity, whether you agree with me or not.

[KawangaKid]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

An interesting take on religious heroes was done in Astro City where there is a team called the CrossBreed.

 

Interestingly enough they don't spend all their time fighting crime. They actually preach on the street as a group and hand out flyers. No, seriously.

 

They're all individuals who have metahuman abilities and believe that God (a Christian one) granted them their abilities for a Purpose. Interestingly, it doesn't suggest they actually were - it's what they believe.

 

Noah, the leader, has weather control powers (and some suggested supernatura l abilities - he could sense vampires). Peter has earth control abilities, Mary has wings and therefore flight, Daniel looks like a humanoid lion and acts like their Wolverine - but turns out to be an accomplished healer as well, David can grow to a huge size and Joshua has sonic abilities.

[OddHat]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

In rely to Labrat, members of many denominations will simply disagree with you outright. As both they and you are speaking from positions of faith and doctrine, it's not an issue that can be meaningfully debated, least of all in an Internet games forum.

 

There's also a bit of the "Men can't fly, so discussing flying men is pointless" about your post.

[Kristopher]

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

The whole concept of the superhuman is, by Judeo-Christian definition, 'blasphemous'. It is based on man being discontent with waiting on and for God to be our hero, our justice and our vengance. Now that's an extreme POV, and if one follows it through you really can't make any excuses for it... you either agree with it or you don't, but by definition it is undeniable no matter if you are profiting from it or not. If you are serious about being a disciple to the Christ then you would be serious in seeing how rediculous the concept of the 'Christian superhero' is.

 

A true Christian wouldn't 'take to the street' with wild claims about what he or she can do in and of himself, especially if the burden is one of 'crime-fighting'. You wouldn't have any Hero stats for the 'love' and 'peace-making' that goes with this territory. It would make for very boring role-playing, and even worse it would beg the question of 'why would you pretend to do it when you should be out there doing these things' in the first place. The whole idea of the 'Christian Superhero' is laughable, giving testimony as to just how little Christ's teachings are understood in the West. What single individual would be chosen by God to be iconic when Christ is the completion of all God's work? Everything that needs to be 'done' will be 'done' by Christ, all the way up until this dustball returns to nothingness. Remember I speak in a fundamentalist Christian mindset, so some denominationists will feel uncomfortable about this... so make allowances for me and understand that these are my convictions and for me to not say something here in reply to this certain topic would be against those convictions. I write this because I must.

 

RE: Spears, Weapons, Powers, etc. Artifacts are useless to the true Christian tradition. As a matter of fact, they are counter-intuitive to the concept of the Holy Spirit being all that we have been left with and all that we need for the fulfilment of our faith. Sure these relics exist, but if they were lost, stolen or destroyed tomorrow it wouldn't mean a thing to the Spirit's contemporary work. Useless trinkets are meaningless when the Creator who made them can never be lost, stolen or destroyed. It's harmful to engage in such talk... why not just make up a religeon instead of making light of such a serious issue? You'd get further and you could have total freedom when it comes to what you're dealing with.

 

That's my commentary on the topic as addressed. I won't entertain any rebuttals, they just aren't important to me. Take what you wish from this, but know too that the realms of make belief are big enough that you shouldn't have to risk such blatent misrepresentation of the Biblical teachings and offending God unless you're just one to enjoy instigating to begin with. I have even less to say to those who won't at the very least consider this with some maturity, whether you agree with me or not.

 

 

That's nice.

[Lucius]

"Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

 

Pretty much' date=' yeah. At least, I haven't met many actual worshipers of the Olympic Pantheon, nor heard of any practicing anywhere..[/quote']

 

I have.

 

(Referencing the Wandering Jew)

It's a Christian myth out of Germany. The Wiki article on it is pretty good. The metaphor-for-diaspora bit was tacked on much later.

 

 

I may loook that up. I knew it was a Christian folktale, but it does make a very good metaphor for diaspora, doesn't it?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is looking for the topic again....