Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

[Robyn]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

I can see Reed being on lists like that' date=' actually. Intelligence and scientific resources on the scale he has puts him up as a major power.[/quote']

 

But his power is stretching!

 

He was a mutant Titan Eternal' date=' he was possibly only outstripped in baseline power by the head Earth Eternal and that was before he started on his path of obtaining his current lofty heights of raw power.[/quote']

 

So what's his power? Beating people up?

[transmetahuman]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Bah. The PotUS doesn't even have the super-powers of whoever fills in for the Substitute Legion when they're not around; you still wouldn't want to make a personal enemy of him.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

But his power is stretching!

 

Reed's most important power has never been his stretching, it's been his supra-genius intellect.

 

So what's his power? Beating people up?

 

 

Thanos is another one whose most important power is his Intellect, but couple that with his natural ability to take in and harness the Power Cosmic, his later cybernetic and arcane body enhancements, coupled with DBZ style personal power increases through shear force of Will, his power is to be a general Billy Badass.

 

TB

[Susano]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Thanos is another one whose most important power is his Intellect' date=' but couple that with his natural ability to take in and harness the Power Cosmic, his later cybernetic and arcane body enhancements, coupled with DBZ style personal power increases through shear force of Will, his power is to be a general Billy Badass.[/quote']

 

Thanos goes Super-Saiyajin... there's a visual I didn't need.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Thanos goes Super-Saiyajin... there's a visual I didn't need.

You should check out the current story arc of the Ultimate FF, Ultimate Thanos is making his debue.

 

He's being more deliberately based off of Darkseid (I'm guessing here, since I only know about Darkseid from a couple of JLA cartoon episodes)

 

Very cool story arc, IMO.

 

TB

[Robyn]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Thanos is another one whose most important power is his Intellect' date=' but couple that with his natural ability to take in and harness the Power Cosmic, his later cybernetic and arcane body enhancements, coupled with DBZ style personal power increases through shear force of Will, his power is to be a general Billy Badass.[/quote']

 

The problem is that past a certain level of power, anything further is meaningless. To a normal, it doesn't matter whether a character is 10 times more powerful or a thousand; either way, the normal will be squashed like a bug.

 

Further levels of power also fail to evade the basic futility of it all: just because you can kill people, doesn't mean you can make them do whatever you want.

 

Claiming that they wouldn't even be alive if you weren't protecting them from forces beyond their ability to comprehend or imagine is, well, self-defeating as persuasion

[death tribble]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Um' date=' so, all the various events I've cited happening in the comics, didn't happen?[/quote']

I never said that. But did they happen exactly as they did in the comics in Catacomb's campaign ?

 

My "proof" that Thanos and Dr Strange are vastly more powerful than Apocalypse, is that they have, in fact, done vastly higher end feats in the comics. This is no more opinion than that the earth orbits around the sun.

Yes. But again did they happen exactly that way in Catacomb's campaign we are talking about. In Marvel's universe, yes. However if you don't want the Spider Clone saga, Dormammu existing at all or Civil War then you don't have to have them. If in Catacomb' campaign Thanos did not use the Infinity gems then would be less powerful ? It's an argument but there is no right answer to it. You have an opinion certainly. It is not however the be all and end all.

 

And if your claim is that there is no proof' date=' merely opinions all equally valid, well, please do confirm. It would speed you getting on my ignore list so I don't have to bother with drivel.[/quote']

Lastly I should point out that I was never taking this as a one-up-manship contest. I pointed out that there were other opinions but you seem to believe that only yours count.

As someone who has been warned here and off the board about what I write I don't want to see anyone else get banned in the same way as Worldmaker, Skaramine, Seenar et al were. The tone of the last part of the post, and several of the others that you have posted on this thread, is patronising and insulting and can get you reported to the moderators.

I have seen other posts you have made which I feel are valid and make a sound argument. So losing you in the same way we have lost others would not be to the board's benefit. But this is not the first time we have disagreed to the point of trading insults so it would be very easy for either of us to step on each other's toes and report the other to the moderators. Pax ok ?

 

Why not PM ? I got an undeserved volley of abuse from Skaramine recently via PM and am not keen on repeating the experience. I am more than happy to have this clear and out in the open so everyone can see that neither of us is winding up the other.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

I never said that. But did they happen exactly as they did in the comics in Catacomb's campaign ?

Then he should have taken up the "I've changed things" option that I mentioned in my very first post.

 

Yes. But again did they happen exactly that way in Catacomb's campaign we are talking about. In Marvel's universe, yes. However if you don't want the Spider Clone saga, Dormammu existing at all or Civil War then you don't have to have them. If in Catacomb' campaign Thanos did not use the Infinity gems then would be less powerful ? It's an argument but there is no right answer to it. You have an opinion certainly. It is not however the be all and end all.

Actually, yes, there is a right answer: they are less powerful if and only if he says there history is different. *Which he is perfectly free to say*.

 

What bothers me is the seeming inability to admit that changing the hierarchy is an actual *change*.

 

 

Lastly I should point out that I was never taking this as a one-up-manship contest. I pointed out that there were other opinions but you seem to believe that only yours count.

As someone who has been warned here and off the board about what I write I don't want to see anyone else get banned in the same way as Worldmaker, Skaramine, Seenar et al were. The tone of the last part of the post, and several of the others that you have posted on this thread, is patronising and insulting and can get you reported to the moderators.

I have seen other posts you have made which I feel are valid and make a sound argument. So losing you in the same way we have lost others would not be to the board's benefit. But this is not the first time we have disagreed to the point of trading insults so it would be very easy for either of us to step on each other's toes and report the other to the moderators. Pax ok ?

 

Why not PM ? I got an undeserved volley of abuse from Skaramine recently via PM and am not keen on repeating the experience. I am more than happy to have this clear and out in the open so everyone can see that neither of us is winding up the other.

 

I don't believe in hiding arguments in PM. If its an honest argument, there is nothing to hide, and if someone is trying to be evasive or deceptive, than it should be forced into the light of day.

 

As for why I'm continuing, I find the idea that "its all opinions" to be one of the most corrosive concepts ever. It renders the entire idea of logical analysis meaningless. And thus, when someone tries to claim some things are opinion when they are *not*. . . I twitch.

[Robyn]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Actually' date=' yes, there is a right answer: they are less powerful if and only if he says there history is different. *Which he is perfectly free to say*.[/quote']

 

Why would he need to, though? Your position, though not stated openly as such, seems to be that every GM is running a canon campaign by default. Without that premise, your argument has nothing to stand on.

 

If you have another premise from which it logically follows that each and every single GM must explicitly declare their campaign to be their campaign before it may differ from canon, you are perfectly free to say so

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Why would he need to, though? Your position, though not stated openly as such, seems to be that every GM is running a canon campaign by default. Without that premise, your argument has nothing to stand on.

 

If you have another premise from which it logically follows that each and every single GM must explicitly declare their campaign to be their campaign before it may differ from canon, you are perfectly free to say so

 

Simple: "The default assumption is that, if a GM is using a preexisting character not of their own creation, then he is using that character as he exists in canon, up to the point of campaign start, unless specified otherwise."

 

Its the same assumption by which one figures if someone mentions they used Dr Destroyer, that he is the 2500 point megavillain we all know and love ( or hate ), and not, say, an avatar of Shiva or a distributed AI intelligence, unless they specify that such is so.

 

IOW, the problem isn't that he isn't declaring his campaign is his own campaign, its that he's saying his own campaign uses characters that are otherwise preexisting. . . in a manner distinctly in contradiction to their actual preexisting history and nature.

[st barbara]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

This whole "Apokalipse/Thanos" debate reminds me of the circular "Superman/Hulk" arguments from the "Superhero Hype Boards" ! Comic characters WILL vary in power during their "lifetime" depending on the needs of the story and/or the wims of the writer. One issue "Thanos" will fight all the gods of Asgard to a standstill, a month later he will be handed his backside by "Squirrel Girl" in the space of two panels, That is the nature of comics.

[Robyn]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Simple: "The default assumption is that' date=' if a GM is using a preexisting character not of their own creation, then he is using that character as he exists in canon, up to the point of campaign start, unless specified otherwise."[/quote']

 

Mostly a paraphrasal, not a new/different premise. Canon doesn't cover original characters; it neither forbids the existence of characters not specifically mentioned, nor establishes official descriptions of said characters. Your premise is still "canon by default", whether you feel a need to declare that canon applies only to existing characters or not.

 

Your "point of campaign start" is the only difference I see, and it too is something you cannot know; you may believe that a campaign starts at the exact moment along a timeline where the players begin to roleplay, but even without time travel the exact time a campaign "starts" is all too easily an opinion to all but the GM, who alone will know

 

Its the same assumption by which one figures if someone mentions they used Dr Destroyer' date=' that he is the 2500 point megavillain we all know and love ( or hate ), and not, say, an avatar of Shiva or a distributed AI intelligence, unless they specify that such is so.[/quote']

 

No, actually, those are different assumptions. You're conflating character concept with mechanical point value. The latter can vary just by what points a GM charges for different abilities - a value that is not dictated by canon.

 

IOW' date=' the problem isn't that he isn't declaring his campaign is his own campaign, its that he's saying his own campaign uses characters that are otherwise preexisting. . . in a manner distinctly in contradiction to their actual preexisting history and nature.[/quote']

 

Really? Amazing. And you got all that from, what, a paragraph or two?

 

You inferred that he was ranking Apocalypse above Thanos; this was your opinion, not consistent with the actual facts of what he said. I don't see this, now, as any different: you're claiming things that aren't backed up by what he actually said.

 

Maybe the chain of logic is obvious to you, so much that it seems needless to waste everyone's time mentioning steps B, C, D, E, F, and G you took between points A and H; but such is the burden of the enlightened, forever required to explicate their insights for the benefit of those whose intellects lack Superleap, 6"

[Robyn]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

This whole "Apokalipse/Thanos" debate reminds me of the circular "Superman/Hulk" arguments from the "Superhero Hype Boards" ! Comic characters WILL vary in power during their "lifetime" depending on the needs of the story and/or the wims of the writer. One issue "Thanos" will fight all the gods of Asgard to a standstill' date=' a month later he will be handed his backside by "Squirrel Girl" in the space of two panels, That is the nature of comics.[/quote']

 

Fighting. Such is the nature of men. Power determined solely by who can hand whose backside to whom.

 

Another conflation (and common misconception) is that of power with points. A character with a 200d6 RKA (3,000 AP) is more powerful than a character with a 50d6 RKA (750 AP). If, however, the former has -20 in Limitations and the latter has only -2, the 50d6 RKA character will cost more. Both of them, however, cost less than the well-travelled "normal" character who has befriended so many supers, organizations, and other influential individuals that all these Favors, Contacts, and Followers easily exceed the cost of either RKA.

 

This last example may stretch suspension of disbelief beyond the snapping point. But consider this: even setting the points aside for one moment, what is the true measure of power? The hero who can fly through galaxies and blow apart planets, or the one who can ask around and have people do something?

 

The former, trying to imitate the latter, is reduced to threats:

"Do this or I destroy everything you love!"

"Keep trying my patience and YOU will be the one to die!"

Effective, perhaps, but the character is still nothing but a bully.

 

The latter, trying to imitate the former, calls in a team for support and they defend Earth against whatever superpowered bully is trying to convert "cosmic power" into "ruler of the world" this time

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

This whole "Apokalipse/Thanos" debate reminds me of the circular "Superman/Hulk" arguments from the "Superhero Hype Boards" ! Comic characters WILL vary in power during their "lifetime" depending on the needs of the story and/or the wims of the writer. One issue "Thanos" will fight all the gods of Asgard to a standstill' date=' a month later he will be handed his backside by "Squirrel Girl" in the space of two panels, That is the nature of comics.[/quote']

 

And thusly, so shall the writeups for NPCs in a game randomly change from session to session. . .

 

. . .oh, wait, thats called "Bad GMing." The equivalent in comics is called "Bad Writing."

 

So, basically, your saying it is the nature of comics that they shall be badly written?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

And, back to the Ignore List with you. If your honestly going to argue that even the writeups for characters native to the Champions universe aren't fixed canon*, there's no point.

 

*Which a GM can change, yes. . . but this constitutes changing canon ( duh )

[Robyn]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

And' date=' back to the Ignore List with you. If your honestly going to argue that even the writeups for characters [i']native to the Champions universe[/i] aren't fixed canon*, there's no point.

 

*Which a GM can change, yes. . . but this constitutes changing canon ( duh )

 

Unless every GM who runs a HERO campaign, by default, checks in with every other GM (or a central authority) to ensure that each of their settings are compatible with every other - they're not running "the" Champions universe. They're running a Champions universe, or in other words, their campaign world.

 

I don't know why you even bother putting me on an Ignore list. You apparently haven't had any difficulty before now with ignoring the point I repeatedly called your attention to: namely, that you are assuming Catacomb contradicted canon when neither his alleged contradictions nor alleged intent to do so have been factually (or logically) evident. This is the context which prevents your allegations from having any status more legitimate than opinion.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Guys, seriously, is the issue that important? Metaphysician, I understand that you don't like taking arguments to PM, but would you if I say pretty please? I wanna get back to campaign megasupers!

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Guys' date=' seriously, is the issue that important? Metaphysician, I understand that you don't like taking arguments to PM, but would you if I say pretty please? I wanna get back to campaign megasupers![/quote']

 

Its vaguely irrelevant, as I put Robyn back on Ignore.

 

With regard to the possibility someone else might show up and continue arguing it, the answer to your request is: no.

[John T]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Beyond the "typical" list of canon CU baddies (Dr. D, Mechanon, Menton, Takofanes), the only personally built villain in this calibre with the potential to show up in my game is The Reaver:

 

History: Tammarin VanDamien was a child of wealth and privilege, with no want or need unfulfilled for long. The VanDamien family itself, for all its small size, had always had a particular gift for attaining anything, by any means, and Tammarrin was no exception... but he wanted more, much more than mere wealth. Even at the age of seventeen, he was the ideal recruit for the secretive Cult of Crimson Tears and their master Corath, the Demon Prince of Ambition.

 

Tammarin served with supreme distinction, rising to the position of High Priest (or as some in the Cult secretly and cautiously called him, "Lord Ultimate Megalomaniac") in six years. No ambition was too lofty, no act in it's attainment too dark, and he soon began to plot his usurpation of Corath's position in the Infernal Hierarchy... and then SHE came...

 

Jessica Darnell, one of Corath's unwitting half-human offspring, was captured, and attempts made to forcibly induct her into the cult; none of that mattered to Tammarin. At first sight, she was the one thing he wanted that he couldn't destroy someone else to obtain, and the more she was tortured to break her will, the stronger and more willful she became, and the more he began to plot their escape together.

 

Then his plans quite literally blew up in his face. Frustrated with her resistance, and with the blessing of their demonic patron, the other High Priests elected to sacrifice her in a ritual that would grant each of them a portion of her still-untapped strength. Realizing this, the balance in her mind tipped, and her demonic power surging forward in a virtual hurricane of red fire. She obliterated the Cult's hidden temple, killed half of the priests present at the time, seriously injured the rest, and caused the deaths of 23 other cultists. Never knowing of his plans, she left Tammarin behind in the wreckage, bleeding, burned, broken and permanently blinded... but very much alive.

 

Tammarin spent the next several years trying unsuccessfully to resolve his conflicting emotions regarding her, his duties to his demonic master and his own driving ambition. Corath made several attempts, through minions and the manipulation of events, to turn her to his purposes, and Tammarin, in a continuing effort to conceal his own agenda, dutifully aided his master, while secretly impeding him as much as possible. Unfortunately, in the end his own conflicting desires caused a fatal misstep; his hand in the failure of one of Corath's plots to subdue her was, perhaps inevitably, discovered. The torture he underwent for his betrayal was unimaginable by mortal minds, his material form slowly scoured away from his soul while being forced to "live" trough every agonizing moment. In the end, his screaming spirit was cast into the vast gulf between dimensions, and there, on the very brink of oblivion, it finally found what it had been looking for...

 

The being once known as Tammarin VanDamien now serves one, or perhaps several, of the Kings of Edom, the Gods of the Shining Darkness, the Lords of Unlight... and his ambition has "survived" with him, perhaps the only remaining vestige of his mortal existence... perhaps...

 

Motivation: Best summed up in one phrase: hatred of everything. The Reaver hates the living. He hates the stench of material existence. He hates his former master and ex-fellow cultists. He hates himself and what his own ambition has made of him. He hates his current master(s). He hates that he wants to serve it/them so loyally. He hates DEMON, it's leaders' grotesque courtship of his gifts and it's flock of snivelling, sycophantic followers. He hates Jessica Darnell, the person that so unwittingly caused his downfall.

 

And that last, microscopic fragment of his lost humanity that still loves her... he hates that most of all.

 

Point Value: 2573 (subject to tweaking)

[Grimble]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

All right. For the sake of not causing arguments, I state that this list is my opinion. Meant for MY game world and uses some alterations in write-ups and my own baiases...

 

That said, here are the top 5 in my game (keep in mind that Dr.D is currently "dead")...

 

Mechanon: He is a super-genius master of technology. Has thousands of summonable robot minions and 100s of hidden manufactory/bases. He is also a heavy hitter in a one-on-one (or Team-on-one) fight. The PCs my be able to stop him from stealing the High-energy physic prototype weapon...but he will be back. And better!

 

Captain Chronos: I pretty much use him as a time travelling McGuffin/Plot Device/Comic relief...What ever I need in the storyline of the week. He is also my favorite NPC in the game.

 

Serpent Supreme: Hidden and never leaves his sanctuary...but has the most NCI in my game. His world wide network of nests, as well as all of the followers that come with it make it easy for him to influence the game world and further his plans for world domination. He is currently the "power behind the throne" in many small nations in my game.

 

Teleios: Master of genetics. He has a better database of Supers than UNTIL and has collected MANY DNA samples from varios heoes and villians. His followers are tough and EXTREMELY loyal (as loyalty is built into their genetic code). I plan on having him retrieve samples from the PCs in upcoming sessions. They should hate fighting clones of them selves. Also, some of them are unigue (one in a Repentant Demon, one is a Predator style alien...). No telling what Teleios can do with these...

 

Last but certainly not least...

 

Metal Master (public ID:Avory Hyne): Metal Master is a PC built on 300/150 pts. A 450pt character on this list? Yes. Let me tell you why.

Avory, a filth rich science geek and amatuer astronomer saw a meteor crash near his Wyoming ranch. He tracked it down and thought he had found a Nickle/Iron meteorite,but it was too light for its size. He took it home and cut it in half to see its structure...The last thing he remembers before passing out was liquid metel covering his hands.

Metal Master's skin is now alien metal (Armor 20rpd/20red),can sence metals at range (analytical), can animate metal (65str TK, metal only), and the real reason he is on this list...7d6 Transform (any metal to any other metal).

This transform has many ramifications that I must keep in mind when coming up with scenariors. Your typical robot is (literally) putty in his hands.

 

 

Hope you like,

 

Grimble

[Twilight]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

I personally think the argument started because ole Apocalypse is a much despised character and many do not want to see him getting any props at all. Of course, this describes me to a T.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

I personally think the argument started because ole Apocalypse is a much despised character and many do not want to see him getting any props at all. Of course' date=' this describes me to a T. [/quote']

 

Eh, I give him the respect he deserves, when he deserves it. Which is to say, animated Apocalypse? Damn scary series arc megavillain.

 

Its just for all the waxing poetic he sometimes inspires in fans, comic book Apocalypse has never done anything to put him as anything higher than an upper end X-villain. . . and the truth is, the X-Men are just not that high end a superteam ( with rare exceptions ).

[Twilight]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

Eh, I give him the respect he deserves, when he deserves it. Which is to say, animated Apocalypse? Damn scary series arc megavillain.

 

Its just for all the waxing poetic he sometimes inspires in fans, comic book Apocalypse has never done anything to put him as anything higher than an upper end X-villain. . . and the truth is, the X-Men are just not that high end a superteam ( with rare exceptions ).

 

I wouldn't even put him up that high. Really as far as I'm concerned he should've stayed a lower echelon villain rather then the munchkin the writers turned him into. Besides, he so totally ran from Susan Storm during Onslaught.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

I wouldn't even put him up that high. Really as far as I'm concerned he should've stayed a lower echelon villain rather then the munchkin the writers turned him into. Besides' date=' he so totally ran from Susan Storm during Onslaught.[/quote']

 

Hey, that just means he's weaker than a Watcher. No shame in that.

[Twilight]

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

 

He should've just remained the way he was designed....as a stand in for the Owl.