Please Critique My First Character

[MattyHelms]

Hey, all-

 

After years of looking at the Hero system, I've finally decided to take the plunge. My copy of the the revised fifth edition book shows up tomorrow, so I've been working with Sidekick to get a feel for the system.

 

For me, the best way to learn a new system is by creating every character I can think of. Because of the mass of information involved with powers, my first character is straight-up Heroic. I happened to be watching a first season episode of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and decided to stat up an Iolus-style character - a scrappy hot-head who can take a beating and always does right in the end.

 

I'm curious how the characterstic values I've chosen go towards that character conception... If anyone wouldn't mind helping out a 34-year-old Hero virgin here, any advice would be great:

 

12 STR

20 DEX

11 CON

11 BODY

10 INT

10 EGO

12 PRE

12 COM

 

5 PD (yes, I bought up 3 levels here)

2 ED

3 SPD

4 REC

22 END

33 STUN

 

Ambidexterity

 

Acrobatics 13-, Climbing 13-, CSL +1 OCV or DVC all HTH Combat attacks, CSL +1 OCV or DVC all Ranged Combat attacks, Concealment 11-, MA - Defensive Strike, MA - Leg Sweep, MA - Escape, MA - Martial Strike, MA - Martial Dodge, MA - Martial Kick, PS - Old Hunting Tricks 16-, Riding 13-, Shadowing 11-, Stealth 13-, Streetwise 11-, Survival 11-, Tracking 16-, WF - Common Missile Weapons

 

Code vs. Killing (Common, Total), Always tries to do what's right (Very Common, Moderate), Hot-Headed (Very Common, Moderate)

 

Thanks!

Matt

[prestidigitator]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Hey Matt. Welcome to the HeroGames discussion boards, and welcome to the greatest roleplaying system you will ever find!

 

That looks like a great heroic level character. One thing you should be aware of is that 20 Dex is extremely dexterous. It is right at the, "Normal Characteristic Maximum," for that Characteristic. That means it is really supposed to represent the most dexterous, "normal," people in the world. If that's what you want for the character, great! If you just want him to be pretty dexterous, I wouldn't pump it up so high just to get the extra Speed or Base Combat Values; those can always be bought up through other means.

 

That's not a criticism; it's just an FYI.

[JmOz]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Looks good overall, I am a tinkerer by nature (And a min maxer), so what follows is a bit of that...

 

 

Raise Str by 1 point, this will raise your PD, stun, & Rec

 

Extra CON (about 15 would be right)

 

Did you spend 10 points on Stun?

 

Otherwise looks good

[gojira]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Welcome Valkyrie, er... MattyHelms!

 

First, what prest said. This character is the top of human potential in the DEX department. Fine if you that's how the character is portrayed in the series.

 

One thing strikes me though. This character has no Resistant Defenses at all. He has NO defense against a killing attack, and most of the hand weapons in the Equipment chapter of Sidekick do killing damage. (Check the notes after the table, only the weapons with an N do normal damage.)

 

For a buddy of Hercules (not knowing the series myself), I'd expect him to have a higher PD. Even 10 to 15 might not be out of line. That'll help him take those beatings a lot better. Some armour would help too. Even a few points (3, let's say) of resistant defenses would help a lot.

 

When you get 5er, look up Combat Luck and see if that would be appropriate. (I bet it is.) Combat Luck provides Resistant Defense without having bulky armour. Just right for a scrappy theify type. But I personally would still give him some light armour too.

 

Note that all of the characters in Sidekick have some pretty hefty Resistant Defenses. Even Valerius has a Wizard's Sheild spell that gives him 12r/12r.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

One thing strikes me though. This character has no Resistant Defenses at all. He has NO defense against a killing attack' date=' and most of the hand weapons in the Equipment chapter of Sidekick do killing damage. (Check the notes after the table, only the weapons with an N do normal damage.)[/quote']

Remember that this is a heroic game, so often defense will come from equipment (armor, etc.). As you noted Combat Luck is always an option (if the GM deems it appropriate for the setting), but it may not be a neccessity.

[gojira]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Yeah, refering to "light armour" I meant leather or something. Those are in Sidekick too.

[Lucius]

Please Critique My First Character

 

Personally, I'd buy STR up to 15. That allows a 3d6 normal attack barehanded, before martial arts or weapons.

 

I am not sure the DEX should be so high; but it should be at least 14.

 

Instead of levels with melee and with range, consider an overall level with all combat.

 

I didn't see any weapons familiarities. A character like Iolus would have some.

 

I'm not sure it's in the core rules, and is probably not in sidekick, but a 1 pt "weapons element" allows the use of martial manuevers with the specified weapon. You have to have familiarity with the weapon of course first.

 

I would have given Iolus an INT of 13. Makes him more perceptive, helps out a lot of skills like concealment and tracking.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Transport Familiarity: Palindromedary

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

As a basic rule of thumb, I always buy PD and ED up to twice their figured base. At least for heroic characters.

[MattyHelms]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Cool - thanks for the advice, everyone! While the numbers looked good on paper, I needed the benefit of experience to see how those numbers actually play out.

 

I'll do some tinkering with him tonight or tomorrow - lower the DEF, raise his STR, raise his INT (which will help with his hunting-style skills), raise his PD, buy some Combat Luck, fix his CLs, maybe buy him another WF (he has one in common missile weapons, buy he could probably use one more for melee weapons), and get him some equipment.

 

Thanks!

Matt

[JmOz]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Doing the math you add up to 135. I assume that you are a 75+75 Points in disads, if so I recomend using every disad point, probably a couple hunteds, maybe a rep...

 

Most GM's will not allow you to take 50 points of anyone catagory in low point games (I would in a fantacy personaly)

 

Also noticed +1 for melee, +1 for ranged, I would dump both and take +1 with all combat (8 pointer) or +1 skill level (+10)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

12 STR

20 DEX

11 CON

11 BODY

10 INT

10 EGO

12 PRE

12 COM

 

5 PD (yes, I bought up 3 levels here)

2 ED

3 SPD

4 REC

22 END

33 STUN

 

Ambidexterity

 

Acrobatics 13-, Climbing 13-, CSL +1 OCV or DVC all HTH Combat attacks, CSL +1 OCV or DVC all Ranged Combat attacks, Concealment 11-, MA - Defensive Strike, MA - Leg Sweep, MA - Escape, MA - Martial Strike, MA - Martial Dodge, MA - Martial Kick, PS - Old Hunting Tricks 16-, Riding 13-, Shadowing 11-, Stealth 13-, Streetwise 11-, Survival 11-, Tracking 16-, WF - Common Missile Weapons

 

Code vs. Killing (Common, Total), Always tries to do what's right (Very Common, Moderate), Hot-Headed (Very Common, Moderate)

 

Looks good overall. I haven't watched Hercules: The Legendary Journeys years, but I don't remember Iolus being quite that agile. I'd put him at around a 14 or 15. I'd also raise his STR to 13, but only because I'm a min-maxer. 12 is probably the most accurate. I also don't recall him knowing any kind of martial arts, or having a combat style you could even call a martial art, but I suppose the mechanics for Martial Arts make a great way of saying he's a wiry guy who hits hard. Probably a better way of represting his agility than DEX is actually. Good job there! As JmOz points out, changing the two +1 CSLs to a single +1 Overall Combat level is the way to go. Saves points and saves space on the character sheet all at the same time. I'd also say he had an INT and EGO of at least 13 each, particularly EGO. Iolus seemed to me to be pretty steadfast in his beliefs and loyalty and was uncommonly resistant to being influenced otherwise. He was also fairly sharp and attentive, though perhaps a bit foolish (which I see you've got a Psych Limit for).

 

Speaking of Disads, I've noticed you've only got some Psych Limits and no other type of Disads. This is unusual for Hero System characters. Generally, there is a limit of the number of points worth of Disads you can take in any category. For heroic games, it's usually 25 points. I'm trying to think of what non psychological shortcomings/problems Iolus had during the show and I'm not thinking of anything. Hunted/Watch by the Gods could be one (really they were watching Herecules, but occasionally the used Iolus to get to him). I'm trying to remember some of his other traits but I'm coming up short. Maybe it's time I watced a few episodes again...

 

Anways, one particular Disad there botheres me most of all. "Always tries to do what's right (Very Common, Moderate)" seems to me to be a worthless Disad. Show me a protagonist appropriate to the setting that doesn't do this. To me, this is a given of any hero. A hero who for some reason is not like this should have a Psych Limit, not the other way around.

[Dino]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

I also don't recall him knowing any kind of martial arts' date=' or having a combat style you could even call a martial art[/quote']

 

You're kidding, right? Those shows (Herc and Xena both) made everyonea martial artist! Iolus and Herc usually ran around unarmed to boot. Definately MA. I'd give him full Defense Manuver as well for all those "we're surrounded" combats.

 

Anways, one particular Disad there botheres me most of all. "Always tries to do what's right (Very Common, Moderate)" seems to me to be a worthless Disad. Show me a protagonist appropriate to the setting that doesn't do this. To me, this is a given of any hero. A hero who for some reason is not like this should have a Psych Limit, not the other way around.

 

This is very much a campaign style issue. In my games, I like to think of Psych Lims as a reward for good character conception, not a negotiation for more points.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

I think the value of "Always Tries to Do The Right Thing" would be dependent on the setting and campaign. In a Shadowrun game, for instance, that would make it hard to survive, let alone be a successful shadowrunner.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

You're kidding' date=' right? Those shows (Herc and Xena both) made [i']everyone[/i]a martial artist! Iolus and Herc usually ran around unarmed to boot. Definately MA. I'd give him full Defense Manuver as well for all those "we're surrounded" combats.

That could just as easily be 4 HTH Levels rather than Martial Arts. But I'm thinking "martial artist" in the term used to describe someone who uses a trained style of fighting. Everyone in the show did seem to have some pretty good kung fu for a bunch of Greeks though, I'll give you that.

 

 

 

This is very much a campaign style issue. In my games, I like to think of Psych Lims as a reward for good character conception, not a negotiation for more points.

 

Exactly. I see them the same way. I just don't want to reward the same behavior/concept element more than once, or just reward the same type. If the characters are only supposed to have one or two flaws, that's one thing, but if they are supposed to have more than that, there needs to be some variety. Not just for the one character, but for all characters. It gets kinda boring otherwise.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

I was trying not to suggest the metagaming reasons for choosing stats. I'm one of those who is always for making Characteristics what you think they should be for the character, not basing them on whether they give you another die of damage of a +1 on a Figured Characteristic. As you will.

[mikesama]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Hey, all-

 

After years of looking at the Hero system, I've finally decided to take the plunge. My copy of the the revised fifth edition book shows up tomorrow, so I've been working with Sidekick to get a feel for the system.

 

For me, the best way to learn a new system is by creating every character I can think of. Because of the mass of information involved with powers, my first character is straight-up Heroic. I happened to be watching a first season episode of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and decided to stat up an Iolus-style character - a scrappy hot-head who can take a beating and always does right in the end.

 

I'm curious how the characterstic values I've chosen go towards that character conception... If anyone wouldn't mind helping out a 34-year-old Hero virgin here, any advice would be great:

 

12 STR

20 DEX

11 CON

11 BODY

10 INT

10 EGO

12 PRE

12 COM

 

5 PD (yes, I bought up 3 levels here)

2 ED

3 SPD

4 REC

22 END

33 STUN

 

Ambidexterity

 

Acrobatics 13-, Climbing 13-, CSL +1 OCV or DVC all HTH Combat attacks, CSL +1 OCV or DVC all Ranged Combat attacks, Concealment 11-, MA - Defensive Strike, MA - Leg Sweep, MA - Escape, MA - Martial Strike, MA - Martial Dodge, MA - Martial Kick, PS - Old Hunting Tricks 16-, Riding 13-, Shadowing 11-, Stealth 13-, Streetwise 11-, Survival 11-, Tracking 16-, WF - Common Missile Weapons

 

Code vs. Killing (Common, Total), Always tries to do what's right (Very Common, Moderate), Hot-Headed (Very Common, Moderate)

 

Thanks!

Matt

 

For taking abeating you have 3 things that effect how well you take it, your defense, Con and Body. I'd have probably traded in some of the Dex for some con and bod. SKills look pretty good, but take WF with common melee weapons. Buying one ranged and one HTH level isn't the best way to do it, 1 overall combat level costs less, or you can buy 1 effects everything skill level for the same cost which effects both skills and combat.

 

If you are going for the min-maxing route the magic hero numbers are usually at 13, 18 and so on adding 5. This is when you get additonal stuff for having a score in that stat. Some disads are very campain based, "always tries to do the right thing" is not worth much in a super hero campain but is worth a lot (and a big hindarance) in a dark future kind of game. Same goes for the Code vrs killing, really a problem in Dark Future and Fantasy genres, not so much in Super Heroing.

 

I recomend you rebuild based on the info you've been given an repost, you learn by doing and my first champions charater wasn't all that great until I went through a few rebuilds.

[MattyHelms]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

I now have the full rules, which means I now have access to the Combat Luck talent. Go, me!

 

Seriously, I get your points about the Disads. I haven't watched many episodes, but Iolus doesn't seem to have too many bad points other than being hotheaded. I'll ditch the "always help" - it's what he should be doing any way. I will stick with the "hot-headed" disad, since it really seems to get him into trouble. I will also keep the martial arts, since Iolus specifically mentioned studying out East early on in the series.

 

All the numbers were based on character conception, rather than min-maxing, and it seems like you're all on that wavelength. He'll start low-powered, but I've never minded characters working for advancement.

[JmOz]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Some disad help based on Herc:

 

Reputation: friend of hercules, it got him in trouble a few times

 

Watched: Greek Patheon (mostly because of Herc)

Hunted: Floating warlord

DNPC: Floating friend/girl/etc...

 

Floating indicates that the actual character changes constantly but the type is constant (So while he killed warlord A, warlord B is in the wings)

[gojira]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

I would also suspect that a code verus killing is appropriate, and some kind of personal code of conduct.

[MattyHelms]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

OK, here's my next attempt... Instead of just spending points on his raw characteristics, I boosted his combat ability through Combat Luck and buying up some PD and SPD. I opted against the code to kill, since I'm not sure that's a concern in a show like Hercules.

 

13 STR

15 DEX

11 CON

11 BODY

13 INT

10 EGO

12 PRE

12 COM

 

10 PD (7 pts) 3 rPD

3 ED (1 pt) 3 rED

4 SPD (15 pts)

5 REC

22 END

24 STUN

 

Ambidexterity

Combat Luck

 

Acrobatics 13-, Climbing 12-, CSL +1 HTH or Ranged OCV or DVC, Concealment 12-, MA - Defensive Strike, MA - Leg Sweep, MA - Escape, MA - Martial Strike, MA - Martial Dodge, MA - Martial Kick, PS - Old Hunting Tricks (INT-based) 12-, Riding 12-, Shadowing 12-, Stealth 12-, Streetwise 12-, Survival 13-, Tracking 13-, WF - Common Missile Weapons, WF - Common Melee Weapons

 

Hot-Headed (Very Common, Moderate) Ego+5

Hunted - Floating Warlord (More Powerful, Limited Geo, NCI, Kill) 8-

DNPC - Flaoting Friend/Girl/Etc (Normal powered) 14-

Watched - Greek Pantheon (More Powerful, NC!, Watching only) 8-

 

Thanks for all the help - Hero has easily handled everything I wanted to do with this character! Soon, I will be diving into Powers!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Looks good except for one thing. The cost of SPD is prorated for that first point. SPD is the only Figured Characteristic that doesn't round up or down, but stays at whatever .x it's calculated at. With a DEX 15, you end up with a SPD of 2.5, so rasing it to 3 only costs 5 points.

 

Of course, if you left it at 2.5, it would act as a 2 during game play.

[MattyHelms]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

Looks good except for one thing. The cost of SPD is prorated for that first point. SPD is the only Figured Characteristic that doesn't round up or down, but stays at whatever .x it's calculated at. With a DEX 15, you end up with a SPD of 2.5, so rasing it to 3 only costs 5 points.

 

Of course, if you left it at 2.5, it would act as a 2 during game play.

 

D'oh! Thanks - updated, along with touching up his disads.

[Lucius]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

I'd give him a higher Presence. For one thing, this is a guy who hangs out with HERCULES. He's not going to be easily impressed, and besides, I just see the character as more charismatic than you make him. I'd say PRE 15.

 

Not that I mean to be nitpicky.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary ruminates

[Dust Raven]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

PRE 12 or 13 seems reasonable for Iolaus. No, he's not easily impressed by simple things like brute strength and acts of heroism (all part of his daily life), but neither is he particularly impressive or inspiring all on his own. Likable, yes; possessing a commanding presence, no.

[JmOz]

Re: Please Critique My First Character

 

A match by a sun is not that bright