keithcurtis Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators OK, I'll clarify too. I am in favor of a Space Elevator. Cheap access to space would be a big benefit to mankind in general. I just am skeptical that the powers that be see it this way. I've been waiting for over 30 years for even a return to the moon. Keith "Thinks the ride up would get boring, though" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators Keith "Thinks the ride up would get boring' date=' though" Curtis[/quote'] How could it possibly be boring, when we have the sterling example of the airline industry as a guide? They'll just serve a tasteless "snack" -- in which the provided plastic fork will have the highest nutritional content -- and show a worn copy of a decade-old movie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators How could it possibly be boring' date=' when we have the sterling example of the airline industry as a guide? They'll just serve a tasteless "snack" -- in which the provided plastic fork will have the highest nutritional content -- and show a worn copy of a decade-old movie...[/quote'] So much depends on what the acceleration history is. I can imagine situations where not only would there be no food served, but they strongly suggest fasting for 6 hours before the ride up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators So much depends on what the acceleration history is. I can imagine situations where not only would there be no food served' date=' but they strongly suggest fasting for 6 hours before the ride up.[/quote'] There was more than a bit of facetiousness in my comment, Cancer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators "Sir, do you want to be seated in the puking or non-puking section?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators It's a 32,000-mile trip. You're going to be in that elevator car for a while. I'd say at least a day for a reasonable speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators It's a 32' date='000-mile trip. You're going to be in that elevator car for a while. I'd say at least a day for a reasonable speed.[/quote'] Sounds like we can be certain it'll be pay toilets on that elevator. Have to make it pay its own way, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators But at least you're lightening the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators How large would the complex at the terrestrial end of the elevator cable need to be, and how important is it that it be at the Equator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Space elevators My first thought was vibration. Harmonic vibration would be a serious problem over such a long distance. Dampeners would have to be built into the cable, increasing mass and cable volume. It's pretty exciting. I don't think the price tag is even that extreme. Consider what we spend on your average space shuttle. As re-usable as space shuttles are, iirc, the average space shuttle mission has a much higher price tag than an inflation-corrected price tag of the early space missions. The biggest problem I see is funding (even more than the technology). The NASA budget has been shrinking for decades and the trend looks to continue. Budgets have gotten so tight that certain safery aspects have been thrown to the way side. There would have to be some serious backing with a large number of pay-offs in the short term before I could even see anything like this getting off the ground (ba-dum CHING!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators How large would the complex at the terrestrial end of the elevator cable need to be' date=' and how important is it that it be at the Equator?[/quote'] For demonstration of principle project, I have heard of an offshore oil drilling platform being proposed for the terrestrial end. Amount of cargo and passengers would probably be the deciding factor on how large the groundside terminal would be. You can probably answer the other question better than any of us, but from what I understand over the equator is the only place you can have a truely geostationary (as opposed to "mearly" geosyncronous) orbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators Actually, a skyhook would be easier to build than a beanstalk. The strength to mass ratio required for the material is significantly less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators How would the space elevator deal with wind blowing on the tether? over so many miles, wouldn't the varying winds disturb the orbit? and how resiliant is this thing to lighting bolts? its going to get hit eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators The political obstacles to building an elevator would seem to be far greater than the technological ones. (Note: no partisan digs at the merits of any particular party here; just thinking about the political process.) The problem is that the concept sounds kinda silly on the surface: "I'm gonna build an elevator to the stars!" It sounds like something out of a bad Monty Python sketch. Mind you, I'm not saying the idea is ridiculous, just that it sounds ridiculous to the average man on the street. The Opposition (whoever they happen to be) could have a field day making fun of whoever proposes it, trotting out their own pseudo-scientists to show that the idea is absurd. So it's a fairly risky thing for a politician to propose. And ironically, the idea is also too prosaic to engage the imagination of people enough to make the risk seem worthwhile. Rockets and space-planes are sexy. But an elevator? Booooring! It would take a pretty visionary politician to propose such a plan, and sadly visionaries don't seem to be getting elected to high office much these days. I'm not saying it's a bad idea - on the contrary! I just think it'll be a tough one to sell to the public. ...and the Environmental Impact Statement will probably be nearly as tall as the elevator itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators It's a 32' date='000-mile trip. You're going to be in that elevator car for a while. I'd say at least a day for a reasonable speed.[/quote'] By my BOE calculations, would take 2 days at Mach 1. For the passenger modules I think we need to think sleeper cars rather than airplane seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirViss Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators Just a question: Would everybody have to go the full 50,000 km? I thought there might be some reasons to have other stops long the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators Just a question: Would everybody have to go the full 50' date='000 km? I thought there might be some reasons to have other stops long the way.[/quote'] Um, nothing between "Here" and "There" yet. The magic of taking an elevator to Clarke orbit is that once you get there you will be traveling at oribital velocity. Get off at a lower floor, you'll fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirViss Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators Um' date=' nothing between "Here" and "There" yet. The magic of taking an elevator to Clarke orbit is that once you get there you will be traveling at oribital velocity. Get off at a lower floor, you'll fall.[/quote'] True. I even knew that. But it would take a lot less thrust to get anything into any kind of stable orbit. I'm just wondering if it would make any sense to have any stops on the way up, or would it be more economical to "lauch" everything for Clark orbit, and then adjust its orbital distance from there. A few years ago, I would have been able to formulate my own opinion. Guess I am just lazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators True. I even knew that. But it would take a lot less thrust to get anything into any kind of stable orbit. I'm just wondering if it would make any sense to have any stops on the way up, or would it be more economical to "lauch" everything for Clark orbit, and then adjust its orbital distance from there. A few years ago, I would have been able to formulate my own opinion. Guess I am just lazy... I believe more economical to launch from Clarke orbit, where you don't have to worry about falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators Um' date=' nothing between "Here" and "There" yet. The magic of taking an elevator to Clarke orbit is that once you get there you will be traveling at oribital velocity. Get off at a lower floor, you'll fall.[/quote'] God that would be like the ultimate base jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators ...and the race for the longest bungie-jump is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators God that would be like the ultimate base jump. Better be wearing SPF 10^100. Keith "and maybe some attitude jets" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Space elevators If you put the people in a box, this kind of thing has been done a number of times. Just hope you don't lose one of the wing tiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Space elevators You'd probably do well to stock a number of personal Atmospheric Re-entry Kits (based on the MOOSE). Just in case. My favorite idea from the Traveller article? The ISRA (Inter-Sector Re-entry Association), a group dedicated to freestyle personal re-entry sports - the ultimate in Extreme Sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Space elevators You'd probably do well to stock a number of personal Atmospheric Re-entry Kits (based on the MOOSE). Just in case. My favorite idea from the Traveller article? The ISRA (Inter-Sector Re-entry Association), a group dedicated to freestyle personal re-entry sports - the ultimate in Extreme Sports. One of the Star Trek movies...number 6?...had a cut scene at the beginning that had Kirk doing something like this, in a special suit and a short of hang glider... though I've not seen the scene, I have seen a couple of stills from it (after he was back on the ground, but still smoking a bit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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