Learning Hero

[Direbadger]

I'm a total Hero system newbie, having never played or run a game with the system before. I just picked up 5thEdRev and Sidekick. I'd like to run a super hero game and so I turned straight to the grandaddy of them all, Champions/Hero. My big question is, how do I go about learning the system well enough to run a game for my players who will also be Hero newbies. At first I tried tackling the main 5th edition rules, but found it a little tough to get through at first. Sidekick seems a little easier to start off with. What now? I'm still feeling a bit overwhelmed with the system and not comfortable enough to start running a game. Unfortunately, there aren't any other Hero games around that I can sit in on as a player. If I want people to start playing Champions or Hero, I have to be the one to introduce them.

 

It seems like quite a lot to handle at the beginning, any tips on learning the system and getting up to speed as a GM would be appreciated. Help me before I give up and just go with Mutants and Masterminds!

 

Thanks

[LREggers]

Re: Learning Hero

 

I'm a total Hero system newbie, having never played or run a game with the system before. I just picked up 5thEdRev and Sidekick. I'd like to run a super hero game and so I turned straight to the grandaddy of them all, Champions/Hero. My big question is, how do I go about learning the system well enough to run a game for my players who will also be Hero newbies. At first I tried tackling the main 5th edition rules, but found it a little tough to get through at first. Sidekick seems a little easier to start off with. What now? I'm still feeling a bit overwhelmed with the system and not comfortable enough to start running a game. Unfortunately, there aren't any other Hero games around that I can sit in on as a player. If I want people to start playing Champions or Hero, I have to be the one to introduce them.

 

It seems like quite a lot to handle at the beginning, any tips on learning the system and getting up to speed as a GM would be appreciated. Help me before I give up and just go with Mutants and Masterminds!

 

Thanks

 

 

Yes, the "Big Black Book" can be a tad daunting to a total system noob,

but don't worry too much. First thing I'd recommend would be to become

VERY familiar with the section called Introduction To The Hero System,

which is in front of the book (I'm assuming you've at least browsed that

5 page section), followed by the 2 page Combat Summary. Take all the

notes you need...they'll come in handy.

One thing I've learned while working with the Hero System (since Revised

First Edition), generating "Test Characters", and pitting them against

one another is a pretty good way to see how the system works. Yes, it

does tend to consume a lot of time, but it's time well spent in learning

how the system works.

 

When you begin GMing a Champions game with your friends, remember

that things will likely go slow for the first few sessions...this is COMPLETELY

normal, don't get discouraged. As you get more practice with the Hero

System, you'll find that everything will begin to fall in place. Have patience,

get to know the system, and have fun!

 

 

Larry

[Alibear]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Welcome to the Hero System Mr. Badger, you've made a great choice.

 

 

Don't tackle anything too complicated to start off with.

 

Start small and add rules as and when you are comfortable with what you have. You don't even have to look at the optional rules 'til you have the basics down pat.

 

What you need to know to GM?

 

How does OCV v DCV work? How do I hit someone? How does block and dodge work?

How do I calculate damage? How do I work out how much damage I just did with my punch? What's the difference between a killing and normal attack.

Skill resolution? How do I make a perception or stealth roll?

 

The rest you can shout and roll, make up what else you need to keep the ball rolling.

 

Have a very basic plot. Bank robbery or armoured car heist that the characters can feel good about stopping, but not detract much from the new rules that they have to learn.

 

 

Before you GM:

 

Get two uncomplicated characters and get them to knock the stuffing out of each other. Have you access to a few pre-made characters? The Champions perhaps?

 

 

If you have questions keep asking 'em here. We're more than happy to help generally and with more specific questions.

 

Al

[Frenchman]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Use sidekick at first - as I understand it sidekick is the same rules, just pared down to the simplest elements. As in without tons of optional extra rules to confuse you. As you get more used to the system, continue looking through sidekick and the big black book in little chunks (I keep mine on the back of the toilet and read a page at a time). It'll stay with you.

 

As with every system, the difficult rules are all about conflict resolution, especially combat. I was surprised at how simple and intuitive the Hero combat rules are - they're only a few pages in that huge book.

 

The hardest part (especially for champions) of Hero is character creation: Thats what the first 350 pages are all about! That also means that once you've created your characters, you don't need to worry about the first half of that giant book.

 

If you don't have it allready, I would highly reccommend buying Hero Designer - it is invaluable. While it is rare that even I come across a power build complex enough to require HD, HD is a wonderful tool for comparing builds and keeping track of, well, everything.

 

Another idea would be to let your players choose their PCs from the premade characters in either the back of 5Er (the big black one, revised), one of several published sourcebooks filled with characters for champions games, or ones you can find online through many of the posters websites (Mark Hughes has a good list of characters here) or on the forum. If you have USPD (if not, there is a collabaritive online version here) you can present the powers as a menu to your players, simplifying and quickening character creation - always emphasize that if the build they're looking at doesn't do exactly what they want, they can tweak it till it does.

Character creation is going to be the most difficult bit, I expect. Was for me.

 

Hope I helped a little. Good Luck (or perhaps bad, since you're the GM. We want the Heros to win, after all) and Good Gaming!

[Mike W]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Sidekick is probably a good place to start, but remember these basic principles:

 

1. Any time you "try to do something" you roll 3D6, low is good. 11 is the "middle target" number. That is, a character whose OCV is the same as the DCV of what he is trying to hit has an 11-. Skills for a person with an average(10) in an ability score, start at 11, if you buy the full skill.

 

2. When you roll for effect, high is good.

 

3. If you mark the PRE chart, the Combat maneuvers chart, and the Skill Modifiers chart, you can pretty well fudge the modifiers on anything else and get away with it as long as it sounds good(unless you have an experienced rules lawyer in the group who is familiar with the system).

[Insaniac99]

Re: Learning Hero

 

1: Welcome! I started playing hero around 2000 myself, but was lucky enough to get a guy who lives near me teach me how to play and GM me an another couple guys, I met him by asking if any players were in my area. you might talk to your FLGS owners and ask about any other players in your area, you never know and may be suprised by the results.

 

2: do not be afraid to ask questions here, everyone here is friendly and eager to help.

 

3: I foudn that everythign is alittle bit confusing and abstarct untill you actually use it in a game, where it suddunly clears up. Your experience may be different but I found that just gathering everyone together and playing thourgh a game is the fastest way to teach someone. just use Sidekick, without all the addiional rules and don't be affraid to look things up in the full book if you have a problem with the ways powers interact.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Welcome Direbadger!

 

Best advice is to start with Sidekick. Leave 5ER on the shelf until you are familar all the rules in Sidekick. If you can, pick up a few sourcebooks. Since you mentioned superheroes, get Champions and possibly Champions Universe and Millennium City (these last two books are of much less importance, but provide you with a premade setting in which to run your games, saving you lots of time and trouble coming up with places, history, etc.). Before having everybody make their own characters (including yourself), start with the characters in Champions. Don't run any real adventures at first. Run brawls. All the senseless combat might seem a bit boring, but using premade characters it will get everybody familiar with the combat rules. While combat isn't everything, combat in the Hero System makes use of nearly all of the rules for playing, covering senses, movement, skill use as well as attacking and defending. Also, combat is a big part of a Champions game. Superheroes are very action oriented, and that usually means combat or something like it.

 

Once you've gotten everybody more or less knowledgable of the combat rules, take them on their first adventure. All of the Champions books I mention above are loaded with plot seeds. Find something simple but interesting and run it (Champions Univers even has a full adventure in the back designed for new players and geared towards ones playing the Champions). Have the players play the same premade characters they were before.

 

Once you've run that first adventure, you can have everybody try their hands and making their own heroes. Some may want to keep playing the premades they started with and that's fine. Some may even want to make some changes. That's good too. Once they have the characters they want to play, the game's all yours; take it where you will.

 

Through all this, keep in touch on these boards. Everybody here is either someone with loads of experience with the system giving out advice or someone asking for some, and many times both. Never feel stupid if you don't get something right away, and don't think that any question is stupid. No one here will cut you down for even the most ridiculous querries. It's a big game with lots of rules, even the gurus don't understand all of them and it's easy to misinterpret some. We're here to help. These boards are the most important resource you have, and the cheapest. Use it.

 

And last but not least, good luck!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Learning Hero

 

PS: Anybody else seeing Direbadger has having 0 posts instead of current post count?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Hai, I also noted he has a 0 post count. Which I thought was odd, shouldn't he have at least one?

 

Welcome, DB. I can say with a straight face that I started playing Hero about six months ago and haven't really looked back. It is a very complicated system, even if you're familiar with other RPGs, Hero can be daunting.

 

It's not you. Don't get discouraged. I spent a LOT of time on this here board doing what you're doing now - tapping the people around here and saying "Terribly sorry... what the **** is a CSL and how does it work?" That worked really well for me. Everyone is extremely groovy and we're all about helping new folk; now that I'm versed enough in the system to answer build questions and I've gotten my feet wet doing my own conversion (it's almost a rite of passage - everyone converts something) I'm now much more prepared to help others.

 

I love the system. I actually started reading through 5ER in a weekend. I do NOT Recommend this - take the advice of the assembled, put together some characters, get some friends, and pound the tar out of each other for an hour or so, book ready, and resolve some combats. Once you've started doing the math you'll be ready to start using the deeper rules sets.

 

Books I can easily recommend:

 

Ultimate Martial Artist.

Hero System Combat Handbook - this books pays for itself every game. I swear.

Almost any other Ultimate book.

The Genre books for whatever you're playing (in this case, Champs).

 

I haven't done much SuperHero RPing since V&V back in the dark ages, but it kicked off a love of gaming that hasn't died (my first game was AD&D - my second was Marvel). In 21 years, this is the best system I've ever seen, and I invite you to ask us ANYTHING. If someone doesn't know, they'll go find someone (or PM someone, or look it up) until we can answer.

 

Also, Steve is available on his thread to answer any mechanical questions you can't answer easily on your own. Welcome aboard! R3p t3h n00bas!!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Learning Hero

 

You don't get a post count until after you respond to the Board Verification Email.

 

Welcome to Hero!

 

Another suggestion - I know you've just spent a grip of cash on the main book (5ER) and Sidekick (SDK)... But I also recommend the Hero System Combat Handbook.

 

the Combat Handbook takes all the combat rules and dumps them into one place to look - I've found it invaluable recently.

 

Other than that the others have given good advice. And if you get any specific questions ask us - we answer everything.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Welcome aboard, Direbadger! No need to give up yet - you've come to the right place for help. We're generally a pretty supportive bunch to newcomers.

 

I understand your feeling a little overwhelmed with all the details and options available in HERO. It can be kind of a steep learning curve in the beginning, but once you have the basics of HERO down I think you'll be impressed by how coherent it all is and the range of things you can do with it.

 

HERO System Sidekick really is one of the best intros to the system outside of having a veteran teach you, so I do advise you to stick with it; it will all start to make sense soon. In the meantime, though, there are quite a few free online resources available to help both you and your players get up to speed on the game:

 

For starters, you might want to check out these general FAQ about the game which will clarify some of the basic assumptions: http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/workingherosystem.htm

 

From this next page, you can download free PDFs which introduce the basic mechanics of the system, summarize the combat sequence, and provide guidelines and examples of how to use the system to run various game genres. The first two make particularly good player handouts: http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs.htm

 

This discussion-board thread contains fairly detailed run-throughs of character generation, probably the most involved element of HERO (due to the many options available). These should supplement the example in Sidekick to give you a better understanding of the process: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3864

 

Next to chargen, combat in HERO involves the most mechanical detail, particularly if you introduce some of the many optional elements. While there is a combat example in Sidekick, this thread provides two further detailed narrative examples, one for "heroic" level (fantasy) combat, the other for supers. You'll get a good feel for the flow of combat from these: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3210

 

This next thread was created to provide advice to someone in just your position: a new HERO GM with newbie players. It also has links to other useful resources: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9188

 

Should you be interested in HERO writeups of characters based on published comics, either to use as is or as examples for your players' writeups, there are an enormous number fan-generated ones on the Internet. I suggest you click on the link in my signature, below, and scroll down to the bottom of the list, to "Published Comic Book Characters."

 

You should also feel free to come back here with any other questions you may have. We all love to show how much we know.

 

I think you'll find that HERO, and the HERO community, will bring you much gaming goodness.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Oh, and if you ever need to know which book something is in there's the Ultimate Hero Index.

 

Just contains each index from each book in a PDF so you can search and crossreference easily.

[Steve Long]

Re: Learning Hero

 

the 2 page Combat Summary.

 

In case no one's mentioned it yet, this is available as a PDF in the "Free Stuff" section of the website -- it's not in the books.

 

Other suggestions, some echoing other people:

 

--Don't be afraid to ask questions. Hero fans are a friendly and enthusiastic bunch, eager to help out new players. No one will flame you or get upset with you for the questions you ask, and you'll learn a lot.

 

--Start simple, with Sidekick, and then work up to adding rules from 5ER as you become more comfortable with things.

 

--Create a few sample characters, pit them against one another in fights. Then go back and tweak the characters to improve them, remove weaknesses, try something new. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Welcome to the game!

[oryanfactor]

Re: Learning Hero

 

I just wanted to add to that note about rolling skills, and 11- being the 50% mark. I found a list of rolling probabilities with 3D6 that will make it more clear. Hope this helps, and welcome to Hero.

 

18- =100% 17- = 98% 16-= 96% 15-=92% 14-=87% 13-=80%

12- =70% 11- = 60% 10-= 50% 9-=39% 8-=28% 7-=19%

6- =12% 5- = 7% 4-=03% 3-=0.5%

 

Note: Mutants & Masterminds is no easier, and nowhere near as prescise.

 

oryan

[prestidigitator]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Welcome!

 

My #1 serious suggestion for starting out: forget tracking Endurance (End) until things are running smoothly. Once you and your players are into the swing of things, then you can introduce End when things get heavy (or just move on to...), and then you can start using it for all combats.

[Direbadger]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Hey everyone, thanks for the all the encouragement and advice!

 

So far I've started off with sidekick, reading the important parts about character design and combat and browsing through some of the powers. Taking my time and going through it (Sidekick) doesn't seem all that bad. I'm really psyched about the system as a whole.

 

After I'm a little more familiar with the system myself, I'll run a few sample combats to get my players up to speed.

 

I'm thinking about sticking with Sidekick for the first few real sessions, and then slowly adding in more options from the big book.

 

Another thought I had was to run a lower-powered game to start with for a few sessions, using heroic rather than superheroic characters. I'm thinking that a mini-campaign of Fantasy Hero or Dark Champions might be a bit easier to manage at the beginning rather than a full-fledged supers campaign.

 

Here's my first rules question: How does the timing work for a block in combat? When does the blocking character declare the block? A block is listed as a 1/2 phase action. Does the blocking character need a phase in the same segment the attacker is attacking in? If not, does it use up his next phase? I get most of the die-rolling and such, but the sequence and timing part still has me a bit confused.

 

Thanks again for all your help!

[gojira]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Here's my first rules question: How does the timing work for a block in combat? When does the blocking character declare the block? A block is listed as a 1/2 phase action. Does the blocking character need a phase in the same segment the attacker is attacking in? If not' date=' does it use up his next phase? I get most of the die-rolling and such, but the sequence and timing part still has me a bit confused.[/quote']

 

Welcome Valkyrie...er, Direbadger!

 

Very good choice to start with Sidekick. It's got everything in it just in less wordy format. The combat rules are almost exactly what you use in the full game.

 

For a block manuver, see the section in Sidekick on "Aborting an Action." (p. 89) To block, the defending character aborts his next phase and blocks instead. If a character has a Held Action, he can abort the Held Action instead.

 

Example: Two PCs come round a bend and see each other. They attack! Combat starts on segment 12. (And then goes segment 1, segment 2, segment 3, etc. to segment 12 again).

 

PC A goes first. He tries to punch PC B in the nose. PC B declares that he is aborting his phase 12 action to block instead. Even tho PC A has a higher Dex and is going first, the abort pre-emps this.

 

The attack is rolled and resloved. PC B gets no action in segment 12 because he aborted. PC B will get to go first if both PCs move on the same next segment, even if PC A's Dex is higher, because that's what Block does. If PC A's Dex is so high, however, that he moves on a segment before PC B, then the block was kinda wasted.

 

Note that after an attack or Full Phase action, the character has no action left to abort to, until the start of the next segment (not phase). Right after someone attacks or takes a full move is a good time to use a held action to clobber them, because they can't abort.

 

 

I think I did that right. Hope it helps!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Another thought I had was to run a lower-powered game to start with for a few sessions' date=' using heroic rather than superheroic characters. I'm thinking that a mini-campaign of Fantasy Hero or Dark Champions might be a bit easier to manage at the beginning rather than a full-fledged supers campaign.[/quote']

That's probably good. Players can simply buy Characteristics, Skills, Talents, and Perks rather than having to worry about constructing powers.

 

Here's my first rules question: How does the timing work for a block in combat? When does the blocking character declare the block? A block is listed as a 1/2 phase action. Does the blocking character need a phase in the same segment the attacker is attacking in? If not, does it use up his next phase? I get most of the die-rolling and such, but the sequence and timing part still has me a bit confused.

The defender can choose to Block any time before the attacker actually makes the attack roll (or I suppose any time before you indicate the results of the attack roll if you make the roll behind a screen). That means you might want to give your players some advance warning (and for the first combat or two even some reminders about the defensive actions they can take), like, "The goblin steps forward and swings his shortsword toward your legs...."

 

As for whether they need an available action, the answer is no. They can Block with either a Delayed Phase (or Half-Phase), or they can Abort their next Phase (meaning when their next normal Phase comes around, they've already used it and you should skip them--probably with mention of the fact that their Aborted action would normally come here so no one thinks you are forgetting them).

[gojira]

Re: Learning Hero

 

P.S. Now DB has posted twice, and he's got a post count of 1. I don't think this is realated to email. Somebody's got an OBOB in their database software.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Learning Hero

 

P.S. Now DB has posted twice' date=' and he's got a post count of 1. I don't think this is realated to email. Somebody's got an OBOB in their database software.[/quote']

You mean I might actually have 3,666 posts?!?!? Ooops. 3,667 that is. Damn! Missed it.

[gojira]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Yeah, it's no big deal, it just looks kinda odd on new posters, where it's the most noticable.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Learning Hero

 

I remember picking up Champions back in 1982 when everyone else was playing AD&D and being hugely intimidated by that book - what a wimp!! I can't imagine how complicated the latest edition looks to someone entirely new.

 

I think the advice you have been given is good. I learned (in the absence of net support) by making up characters and fighting them and boy did they suck big time.

 

I practiced the system by me and my friends fighting the premade characters in source books. That got me used to looking at both the powers and system without having to consider building powers.

 

What no-one has suggested so far is Villainy Amok by Scott Bennie. It is one of the best superhero supplements I have ever picked up because it helps you, as a GM, to come up with plots for your game and suggestions on how to develop plots you may already have.

 

I have used it once or twice and it is good as it does provide you with some good comic-book style plots and plot developments and how to use them.

 

I'm just waiting on Scott to do something similar for Fantasy Hero and Star Hero...I'll buy them both.

 

 

Doc

[ghost-angel]

Re: Learning Hero

 

P.S. Now DB has posted twice' date=' and he's got a post count of 1. I don't think this is realated to email. Somebody's got an OBOB in their database software.[/quote']

Post count doesn't start until after responding to the validation email. I've seen this on several posters.

[gojira]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Oh, well that makes sense. Still looks kinda funny tho'.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Learning Hero

 

Oh' date=' well that makes sense. Still looks kinda funny tho'.[/quote']

no disagreement there...