cboscari Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 I was reading in the back of popular science that by the writer's estimates from the clip of the hulk throwing the tank off into the distance, that he computes that to throw a 60 ton tank 2000 feet in two seconds requires 100,000 hp. I grabbed by Hero 5th, and decided to see what the Movie hulk's strength would have to be to do the same feat. I come up with a STR of 212 to throw a 50-ton tank 308 hexes. That's a little higher that the 70 STR I've seen. Wow! Would you let the movie Hulk into your campaign? HULK SMASH PUNY 70STR BRICK!!!!! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hey, we don't have all the facts now... the tank could have 10" of gliding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 The problem is not the Hulk's strength. The problem is the HERO throwing rules; they just do not allow for the incredible throws which are sometimes performed by mega-bricks in comic books. I am hoping that one of the things the Ultimate Brick will have is expanded throwing rules section to cover those types of comic book events. Only time will tell though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 An Extended Range RKA perhaps, OIF: Tanks of Opportunity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike A megascaled RKA perhaps, OIF: Tanks of Opportunity? That would probably do it. I think on the old boards I wrote a Super-Throw power for bricks as something along the lines of 1" FLIGHT, UAA, Mega-Scale, Instant, Gestures. That way you could throw just about anyone a kilometer (add more Flight if you want them to go farther). Too bad I did not bother to write that up for the USPD database. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 We just use the Mayfair DC system for throwing. You just steal their chart, divide strength by 5 and follow the distance for the weight of the item. Of course: The Hulk should be much stronger when enraged than the listed strength of Grond and just as strong to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 There's an idea Originally posted by Monolith The problem is not the Hulk's strength. The problem is the HERO throwing rules; they just do not allow for the incredible throws which are sometimes performed by mega-bricks in comic books. I am hoping that one of the things the Ultimate Brick will have is expanded throwing rules section to cover those types of comic book events. Only time will tell though. Maybe the book should have a sort of "Haymaker throw" , distance instead of DCs added on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Re: There's an idea Originally posted by Hermit Maybe the book should have a sort of "Haymaker throw" , distance instead of DCs added on? Something like that might work. State you are making a "Haymaker Throw," take the extra segment and your throwing distance is multiplied by 10; but you do no extra damage. That would at least give the player the feel of a real mega-throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Someone made another version of super throw, it was basically leaping, +1" per 1 pt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcowboy Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Re: Movie Hulk Estimated Strength- Hero style Originally posted by cboscari I was reading in the back of popular science that by the writer's estimates from the clip of the hulk throwing the tank off into the distance, that he computes that to throw a 60 ton tank 2000 feet in two seconds requires 100,000 hp. I grabbed by Hero 5th, and decided to see what the Movie hulk's strength would have to be to do the same feat. I come up with a STR of 212 to throw a 50-ton tank 308 hexes. That's a little higher that the 70 STR I've seen. Wow! Would you let the movie Hulk into your campaign? HULK SMASH PUNY 70STR BRICK!!!!! Chris I think you're mistaken. If I read the throwing chart right, the distance a character can throw a object (running throw) is 80% of their Str (ie. 25 extra Str = 20" thrown). So, to throw something 304.8 hexes (2000ftx(0.3048m/ft)x(1hex/2m)) takes ~ 380 extra Str. Then add the strength necessary to lift the object in the first place (either 55 or 60 Str depending on whether you round up or down for a 60 ton tank) and you get something like 435 - 440 Str. Course, that's giving him the benefit of a running throw which I think is okay considering he spun the thing around a couple of times to pick up momentum before he actually let go. Somebody check my math, it's been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboscari Posted June 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 I used running throw because he took a step or two. I could have added it up wrong, anyone got something different? Still... 435?! HULK SMASH GROND!!!! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcowboy Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 After reviewing the throwing table some more, the thing that I find odd is that the amount a character can lift doubles for every 5 pts of Str but the distance a character can throw doubles every (Str*2) pts. That's a big difference in the way they increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Strength is a strange one... In Champions, with 75 STR, you can pick up a tank, drop it on a normal human, and he's got a pretty good chance of surviving 15 dice if he gets immediate medical attention (within a couple of turns). (a cruel GM adds a few more dice for the weight of the tank.) Personally, I think the throwing chart is designed with the idea that a standard hex map only has about 30 hexes across. With the new rules, the players have been toying with the idea of trying Strength with one level of MegaScale for that "I launch it back into orbit" and "leap tall buildings in a single bound". However, the GM should not use MegaScale lightly. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboscari Posted June 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Thanks, Blue Jogger. I was going to say that after thinking about it, Some kind of megascale power tied to throwing would simulate it pretty well, as a "Strength Trick" that couldn't be used as a weapon maybe. You know, just to throw junk around. I like that idea. Looks like everyone else is already way ahead of me as usual on these things. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 I already have a couple of brick characters in my campaign built with MegaScale on their Strength to allow for exceptional throwing distance. The trick is not to have MegaScale apply all the time, since it would make STR unusable for HTH combat or any other common use on a personal scale. One of our characters has MegaScale as a Naked Advantage, while the other has it as part of Variable Advantages. My ruling is that after a character picks up an object or Grabs an opponent, he would have to "switch" to MegaScale for the really long throw. Since the Grab is an attack action, the character has to wait until his next Phase before he can switch the Advantage; we run this delay as the character "winding up." A Grabbed victim could use the interim to try to escape from the Grab, or the thrower could be attacked by the victim's allies before he lets fly - this is intended to help balance the potential for a combatant being thrown so far that he can't get back to the combat before it's finished. I also restrict the MegaScale distance to throwing, not Leaping based on Strength, because the system already has a Power and mechanism for enhanced Leaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 I think it's really simple. I can throw a football x number of yards and let's say I would be represented as a person with a 10 strength (heh, not likely). If Grond has a strength of 90, he is roughly 64,000 times as strong as me. If I can throw a football 50 yards he should be able to throw it 3,200,000 yards which is, what, edging toward two thousand miles? I haven't studied up too much on throwing in 5E - has it taken this into account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 I remember a discussion of the rationale for relative throwing distances on the old boards. One poster who was a former college football linebacker remarked that although he was more than twice as strong as the team quarterback in terms of what he could lift, the quarterback could throw a football multiples of the distance that he could. The argument was that throwing for distance is at least as much a matter of talent and skill as it is raw strength. The same thing applies to jumping long distances; I've always noticed that the Hulk's ability to travel by enormous leaps far exceeds that of most other Marvel characters who are otherwise of comparable strength to him. IMHO it's a good thing that HERO Leaping rules do not grant exceptional distances based solely on Strength, but can add that ability to characters if their concept justifies it; there's a reasonable rationale for it, and there are already enough benefits to high Strength. The same reasoning should apply to extra-long throws, via some mechanism like the ones already suggested on this thread. As always, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X We just use the Mayfair DC system for throwing. You just steal their chart, divide strength by 5 and follow the distance for the weight of the item. This seems like a good solution to me. Using this system, a character would need 100 strength to perform this feat in Hero. Sounds about right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Originally posted by Rook This seems like a good solution to me. Using this system, a character would need 100 strength to perform this feat in Hero. Sounds about right to me. Yep. I love Hero but I have found some of the old systems had some gems that Hero has never quite matched or only recently tried to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 well, the distance you can throw an object is dependent on the velocity you impart to it. increasing distance by two times requires 4x as much strength. So, if I can throw a football 50 yards, and someone 100x stronger could throw it 500 yards...then to throw a 70 ton tank 500 yards...hmm..if 60 STR = 5 yards, then it would take 100x the velocity to travel 500 yards, so 10,000 times the strength to throw it 5 yards; about 125 STR! So the 130 STR of the enraged hulk in the gametrader writeup seems about right to me:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 In a related vein... I'm reading the TPB of Avengers: The Korvac Saga. In a battle at the harbour, a villain punches Ms. Marvel and she lands "hundreds of yards away". Even if she is flying (-1D6 on knockback), no one in Champions should hit hard enough to knock someone back hundreds of yards (100"+). A rudimentary knowledge of physics might be the basis of that throwing table. To lift an object, you give it potential energy (PE). PE doubles as the mass of the object doubles; +5 STR lifts twice as much because you can give twice the energy. To throw something twice as far (assuming a relatively horizontal throw), you need to give it twice the velocity. But twice the velocity is actually 4 times the energy (since this is kinetic energy (KE), and KE is a function of mass times velocity squared). So, twice the distance takes +10 STR. A skillful thrower might be able to pick the optimum angle at which to throw; it really does vary a bit based on the aerodynamic properties of the object and how well you can exert your strength (some objects are so easily accelerated, you can't effectively throw with all your strength, etc.). Given the right angle, it really is more like twice the KE/twice the STR gives twice the distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcowboy Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 I have to agree. I've been playing with the numbers a little bit more since my last post and I like the way they play out when you have distance double every +10 Str (4x as strong). That's for a running throw, standing doubles at +15 Str and prone at +20. This seems to play better with my idea of comic book superhero physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaratustra Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Check the 'Throwing' thread for my take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X We just use the Mayfair DC system for throwing. You just steal their chart, divide strength by 5 and follow the distance for the weight of the item. Is this the same chart that has Superman being able to throw a cheeseburger into the next galaxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMan Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Seeing as the different components of the cheesburger have varying degrees of aerodynamic sculpting, I think Supes would be lucky to be able to throw a cheesburger to the next block. But it does make me wonder who started the food fight... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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