Peramonal communication

[Tywyll]

Hey,

 

How would you model a race's ability to communicate by pheramones (sp?)? There is a race that can not only communicate with scent, but leave signals by spreading scents on specific places and things.

 

How could I do that in hero? I was thinking the communication might be telepathy based, but not sure how to leave the signals.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

I'd say Discriminatory, even Analyze, on the Scent sense group, with Transmit added in. Possibly a Change Environments that allows them to place scent marks.

[Mister E]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

I would buy Transmit (2 points) for the single sense of Smell, lending it the ability to communicate with others; Discriminatory (5 points) to give it the ability to distinguish between basic pheromones; and Analyse (5 points) to fully enable the sense to discriminate complicated elements of language.

 

Other adders such as Tracking, Targeting Sense, Telescopic, and Rapid also make *cough* sense.

 

To mark an area with a scent message, Images works. However, since the character has already bought Transmit for its sense of Smell, presumably this is not necessary. Using scent as a form of communication has its own unique advantages and limitations in my mind; and having a character rub up on a telephone pole is about as simple as writing a phone number on a napkin.

[McCoy]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

I think Mister E got it.

[Mister E]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

"Voice" is a 20 point power, btw. I'd sell it off as a Physical Limitation.

[Tywyll]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

thanks! I never even thought of messing with senses groups!

[Lucius]

Re: Pheramonal communication

 

Yes, a good perusal of Enhanced Senses is the next step in building this. Before slapping on too many adders though I'd point out that, technically, as I understand it, even normal Human vision and hearing are not considered Discriminatory or Analyze. Although I have to wonder, if Human sight isn't Discriminatory, what the heck is??

 

As for leaving messages, maybe it can be 1 pt ability based on the fact that that's what Literacy usually costs, if it costs anything. You can make it free based on SFX, although I note that a species with Ultrasonic Hearing and Transmit can communicate secretly but DON'T get the ability to leave messages unless using audio recording equipment.....if you think the ability to leave secret messages will be exceptionally valuable, maybe you can fold it into the "Tracking" adder though.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that for such characters, a rose by any other name would NOT smell the same...

[Sociotard]

Re: Pheramonal communication

 

No no, Sight is discriminatory, hearing is partially discriminatory, smell and touch are not.

[Tom]

Re: Pheramonal communication

 

Yes' date=' a good perusal of Enhanced Senses is the next step in building this. Before slapping on too many adders though I'd point out that, technically, as I understand it, even normal Human vision and hearing are not considered Discriminatory or Analyze. Although I have to wonder, if Human sight isn't Discriminatory, what the heck is??[/quote']

 

Actually, the rules say that normal human vision and hearing are not 'fully' Discrimanatory. The Discrimanatory and Analyze adders adding for a much greater degree of accuracy when assessing a perceived item including information that could normally only be determined with the assistance of specialized test equipment and trained professionals.

[Mister E]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

I can't believe I'm posting this.

 

I might have been jumping the gun on the Discriminatory/Analyse adders, but it's hard for me to imagine chemical compounds being translated into language without thinking in human olfactory terms where if you can smell something, you can identify it to some degree. Previously, I figured that consciously generating and projecting pheromones would require pungent base smells that would be easily identifiable; but a language based on pheromones could be largely divorced from the concept of the sensation of scents.

 

My brain is starting to melt from attempting to conceive pheromones evolving into a complicated language appropriate to handle the needs of an advanced space-faring civilization.

 

SFX-wise, generally I think of pheromones in the context of low order processes derived from the thalamus/hypothalamus... a sort of air-born endocrine system in the form of molecules created by one member of a species to effect emotional and biological changes in another, putting them in sync.

 

Any kind of complicated language derived from this process is beyond my experience, but I might think of it as a synthesis of thoughts and emotions. Circumventing the generation of a hive mind, some integration process in the brain probably evolved to translate the exact pathos of the sender tagging it with a sense of 'otherness' so as to differentiate the signals from those of the recipient.

 

Pheromone communication, to be of any aid, would have to be extremely compact (or else 'speech' would have to be extremely slow) for it not to get garbled with past messages. It's all so mechanical and slow, normally.

 

However, if a person were somehow able to generate specific unique compounds and breath them to another person who could Analyse their arrangement... an extremely complicated language could be developed based on a kind of species-singularly-significant biochemical semiosis. The sheer utility of such a power would advance an individuals self knowledge greatly. Freakishly advanced medicine would be possible. Each process of the body, or ecosystem, would be understood as emanating from these pheromones which divinely communicate towards some ultimate mystery of life and nature. The organs which specifically interpret and produce the pheromones, culturally, would possess teleological magnitude that could literally be heart-felt. Thoughts derived from symbols (pheromones) interacting with other symbols (DNA) through the medium of space and time, leading towards some ultimate goal (ambiplasmic sentience existing beyond the heat-death of the universe?).

 

Or not.

 

SFX aside:

 

Adding Transmit to the sense of Smell enables you to produce smells. Smells don't normally contain enough sophistication to allow for a decent language to develop (unless otherwise ruled by the GM). Adding Discriminating would allow for an hours long conversation (depending on the airflow) that would normally take us minutes. Analyze pretty much unlocks the universe eventually.

 

Any idea what kind of writing system these aliens would use?

 

 

~ Mister E

[Sean Waters]

Re: Pheramonal communication

 

No no' date=' Sight is discriminatory, hearing is partially discriminatory, smell and touch are not.[/quote']

 

Actually I don't think the official build of sight includes either 'discriminatory' or 'sense' Well, it says it does, but then claims that sight is worth 25 points (p351). If it has disc and sense it should cost 32.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

Just a couple of other ideas, nut endorsing any:

 

You could do it as just a normal Language, but this proably isn't what you want, since in general, a GM would probably rule that it's always detectable, even if it isn't understandable.

 

Another method could use Telepathy, as you first mentioned. You would add the limitations "Based on CON" and "Communication Only," and possibly some additional limitation so that others with the appropriate senses could "eavesdrop." Maybe add Lingering so you can "leave messages."

[BNakagawa]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

Also buy a language.

 

Not every organism that communicates via phermones uses the exact same set, so most of them can't communicate cross-species.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

I can't believe I'm posting this.

I might have been jumping the gun on the Discriminatory/Analyse adders, but it's hard for me to imagine chemical compounds being translated into language without thinking in human olfactory terms where if you can smell something, you can identify it to some degree. Previously, I figured that consciously generating and projecting pheromones would require pungent base smells that would be easily identifiable; but a language based on pheromones could be largely divorced from the concept of the sensation of scents.

 

My brain is starting to melt from attempting to conceive pheromones evolving into a complicated language appropriate to handle the needs of an advanced space-faring civilization.

SFX-wise, generally I think of pheromones in the context of low order processes derived from the thalamus/hypothalamus... a sort of air-born endocrine system in the form of molecules created by one member of a species to effect emotional and biological changes in another, putting them in sync.

 

Any kind of complicated language derived from this process is beyond my experience, but I might think of it as a synthesis of thoughts and emotions. Circumventing the generation of a hive mind, some integration process in the brain probably evolved to translate the exact pathos of the sender tagging it with a sense of 'otherness' so as to differentiate the signals from those of the recipient.

 

Pheromone communication, to be of any aid, would have to be extremely compact (or else 'speech' would have to be extremely slow) for it not to get garbled with past messages. It's all so mechanical and slow, normally.

 

However, if a person were somehow able to generate specific unique compounds and breath them to another person who could Analyse their arrangement... an extremely complicated language could be developed based on a kind of species-singularly-significant biochemical semiosis. The sheer utility of such a power would advance an individuals self knowledge greatly. Freakishly advanced medicine would be possible. Each process of the body, or ecosystem, would be understood as emanating from these pheromones which divinely communicate towards some ultimate mystery of life and nature. The organs which specifically interpret and produce the pheromones, culturally, would possess teleological magnitude that could literally be heart-felt. Thoughts derived from symbols (pheromones) interacting with other symbols (DNA) through the medium of space and time, leading towards some ultimate goal (ambiplasmic sentience existing beyond the heat-death of the universe?).

 

Or not.

 

SFX aside:

 

Adding Transmit to the sense of Smell enables you to produce smells. Smells don't normally contain enough sophistication to allow for a decent language to develop (unless otherwise ruled by the GM). Adding Discriminating would allow for an hours long conversation (depending on the airflow) that would normally take us minutes. Analyze pretty much unlocks the universe eventually.

 

Any idea what kind of writing system these aliens would use?

 

 

~ Mister E

 

They would have Advanced air fresheners to hold the scents of conversation!

[dstarfire]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

Discriminatory and/or analyze are NOT neccesary for advanced communication. Analyze for sight would tell you just what type of ink was used to form the letters written on a sheet of paper, and what that paper was made from. I'm not too sure what full discriminatory would do for you, but it'd be something fairly similar.

 

Back to the original concept here, you might want to add in some extra abilities to reflect their ability to manipulate their scent for deceptive purposes (much as humans make realistic-looking decoys). Also, the nature of scent means that each statement must be erased/cancelled out before another message can be placed in the same medium (even if that medium is the air). The 'Runelords' series by David Farland talks about this in it's later parts.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

Also' date=' the nature of scent means that each statement must be erased/cancelled out before another message can be placed in the same medium (even if that medium is the air).[/quote']

 

 

After reading the above line, I envisaged two alien creatures sitting at a cafe table. Periodically, they pull out cans of air freshener and spray liberally so they can continue their "conversation".

 

[John T]

Re: Peramonal communication

 

Might also consider Language: Pheremonal.

 

The sense side of it is all well and good, but it's not really a language until you make it one.

 

Being able to "speak" and "hear" it is covered by the stuff above.