Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

[Omnigames]

About 1/2 point characteristics and the like...

Page 7 of the 5ER states, "he's not allowed to get something 'for free.'"

 

If a character buys only 1 extra point of END, this costs 1 point (rounded up). But since END costs 1/2 point for each additional point purchased, buying 2 points of END costs the same as buying just 1, correct? By extension, if I buy 4 extra points of END, that costs 2 CPs; if I buy 5 extra points of END, that also costs only 2 CPs, because I would round down in favor of "what's best for the character."

 

So... when buying 1/2-point characteristics (or powers, or whatever) does that mean it always costs the same amount to buy in multiples of 2? If so, isn't the character then really getting something "for free?" And if that's true, why would anyone ever buy only 1 point of a 1/2-point attribute if they can get 2 points for the same price?

 

I know I'm splitting hairs here (halfway -- hee hee!) but I think this is an important consideration.

 

Thanks in advance for not cutting me in half!

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist!)

[Edsel]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

Technically that is true. Buying +1 END costs 1 point and buying 3 END rounds down to 1 point. By the letter of the rule you can get away with that but IMO it's a very munchkin thing to do. I have let characters get away with an extra point of COM like this but that is about it.

[Doug Limmer]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

I don't think the cost buying 3 END rounds down to 1, any more than buying 3 points worth of an Energy Blast rounds up to a full die. There's no division involved in calculating END costs; you have to spend (at least) 1.5 character points to get 3 END, and you have to spend whole-number amounts of character points, so 3 END would cost you 2 character points.

 

At least, that's how I think it works. And, yes, it means that, in terms of cost effectiveness, you "should" buy 4 END for the same 2 character points.

[Edsel]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

From the FAQ:

Q: If a character wants to buy an odd number of COM or END, does he “round down” the extra 1/2 point spent on the last point of the Characteristics, thereby getting a point for free?

 

A: No; he must pay a full 1 point cost for the extra point of COM or END. The rounding rules, as discussed on 5ER 7, apply to calculations involving multiplication or division. There is no such calculating going on when buying things like COM — it’s just a straight purchase. The same rule would apply when buying anything else that could cost a half-point, like some Penalty Skill Levels or Flash dice. However, if he wishes to apply Power Modifiers to the Characteristic, he should do so using the cost ending in a half-point, and then apply the standard rounding rules. For actual calculations, the standard rounding rules always apply.

 

The GM may, in his discretion, allow a character with two Characteristics that end in halves to combine them to get 1 point.

So obviously I was wrong. If you are going to buy 3 END it'll cost 2 points so there isn't much point in buying an odd numbered amount of END or COM unless you are applying an Advantage or Limitation in which case the rounding can work in your favor.

[gojira]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Two points does not buy you +1 DEX. You need to spend the full 3 points, or you don't get the +1. Characteristic costs aren't "rounded."

 

This happens when you build spreadsheets (or computer programs) to do characters. I caught it when I had DEX = 10 + Points/3. It ain't. It's DEX = 10 + FLOOR(Points/3). Fractions don't count.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

I have let characters get away with an extra point of COM like this but that is about it.

 

I've done that just for the specific purpose of having odd numbered stats on the x1/2 pt costers. Just for the funny of it.

 

"So what is your character's comliness"

"17"

"17?!?"

[Mister E]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

Mixing up COM and END adds granularity.

[pinecone]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

And, as the FAQ says, you can have odd End,just take an odd Com as well....17 Com, and 35 End....no harm,no foul...

[Omnigames]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

And, as the FAQ says...

Can you post the URL for this FAQ?

Thanks!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

See the "FAQs" link on the top link bar

 

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrulesfaq.htm

[Robyn]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

See the "FAQs" link on the top link bar

 

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrulesfaq.htm

 

Not to be confused with the "FAQ" (note: no 's') link on the top forum bar:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/faq.php

 

If you look to the left and see "HERO LINKS", then to the right and see "FREE STUFF", you're in the right place.

 

If you look to the left and see "User CP", then to the right and see "Members List", you are about to enter a realm of futility where not even the most obvious and commonplace HERO terms will be found

[Edsel]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrules/CHARACTERISTICS.htm

 

And this link should take you right to the proper page within the FAQ. Following this link it is the third Q&A on the page.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

Or.

 

You can just keep the half point floating in limbo until you find something else interesting to apply it too.

 

*shrug* No one says you HAVE to spend it. But. I would also never let someone get 3 points of END for 1 CP - it's 1.5 CP, and that's the way that goes. You CAN divide CP.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

Yes. There's no reason not to allow the "extra" half point to be spent on COM, so that both your END and COM are odd. Or you can spend it on a PSL.

 

I once had to keep track of cp for characters down to half-points instead of points, because I had some math-munchkins that repetedly and deliberately would choose limitations and advantages so that they would always round in their favor. It isn't that hard to do really. And if you add up all the "free fractional points" you get, you can easily end up with like 20 effective points more than you paid for. For example, they'd have their Multipower reserve at 55 points so that each ultra slot costs 5 (the half-point being dropped). They'd pick an advantage which would cause a calculation like 50 x (1 + 1/4) = 62.5 (rounds down to 62) and then a limitation like 62 /(1 + 1/2) = 41.333 rounds down again to 41. So to stop this abuse (it actually did get to that point), I required rounding to the nearest half-point. So those ultra slots would actually cost 5.5 points. And the power would be 62.5 active, and 41.667 (rounds to 41.5) real. This really doesn't require much work at all. Especially if you use a calculator.

[Omnigames]

Re: Stickler for Details: 1/2 Point Issues

 

So it's kinda like Richard Pryor in Superman 3 gathering all the fractional cents to buy a Ferrari!