WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

[Great Beyond]

In the wake of the last couple of WWYCD's, where a binary yes/no moral choice was forced on the characters (and both choices were pretty distastful), I'd thought I'd put out something that allows some wiggle room.

 

(The following assumes some kind of Hero in the public eye that would work with the Government from time to time. Shadowy, lurk in the background heroes can disregard or modify as necessary)

 

There is a small island nation that's currently seeking a treaty with The Home Nation (in this case, we'll assume the USA). They'd like to open up trade relations, bring in western dollars into the local economy and export the rare mineral McGuffinainum, used in making cars or microchips or whatever. Diplomatic negotiations are underway, and the heroes have been asked to be bodyguards for the diplomats (or go along as a show of "Look at our cool heroes", or perhaps to assist the diplomats if they have any diplomatic and smooth talking skills. Either way, theyre tagging along)

 

Inside the borders of this nation, there happens to be an ages old law that simply states that a minor must obey any request of his/her father. Usually this just means washing the dishes and mowing then lawn, but there are some sick, twisted individuals who bend the law for their benefit, as you'll soon see.

 

As nearly successful negotiations are winding down, one of the characters gets a little bit of free time to themselves. While they are in a bar/market/place of relaxing, enjoying the local color, a side door flings open. This young girl (around 13 years old) comes running out, clutching the front of her ripped dress and crying. She is bleeding out of the side of her mouth and her left eye is freshly blackened, so badly swollen she can't see out of it. Shortly thereafter a large Cro-Magnon like man enters the bar through the same door, shirtless, tightening his belt and laughing.

 

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what just happened. After a colorful discussion it is revealed that the little girl's father pimped her to the Neanderthal, using a loop-hole in the law that the minor has to do whatever his/her legal guardian demanded. Now, this is a third world country that doesn't have laws and governmental organizations set up to help the young/needy/elderly/etc, leaving the kid at the tender mercies of her father.

 

Everything transpiring is perfectly legal but it is ethically all screwed up. What does our hero do? Do they lash out at the sicko father, instantly turning him into a grease stain on the floor? Do they let it go because it is their duty to uphold the law regardless of how messed up it is?

 

Of course if they decide to say "screw the local laws, if the law, the hospitals, the Government, or the parents won't protect the girl, then the I will!" things get interesting. Technically it would be kidnapping in the eyes of the primitive law, but of it would be the right thing to do. CNN, on the other hand would have a field day with this. Imagine the headlines: "Super heroes kidnap young girl!" And of course - congratulations, you just committed a crime of international proportions, and ruined three years of negotiations - thus forcing the local embassy to be abandoned and the loss of vital mining rights. But at least the kid is safe.

 

So - what do you do?

 

Here's how my players dealt with the problem

In my game, the characters first "rented" the girl for the reminder of the night and got her well out of harms way for the short term. They then proceeded to bend the ear of the head diplomat (who one of them was on good terms with), convincing them to push some clauses and legislation into the treaty in exchange for giving away the farm. They were pretty clever about the wording, outlawing that sort of treatment and averting the potential diplomatic disaster before it happened. After everything was signed and locked in, they mentioned how the girl was coming with them and would not be staying behind. It was still a political bomb that they dropped, but it was much smaller than going the other way, and she was safly out of the line of fire by then. I was actually really proud at how they won a pretty ugly "no-win" situation.

 

[Peregrine]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

That's a heroic resolution to the issue... bravo to the players!

[McCoy]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Millennium: Local law is local law. And I'm willing to bet there is no local law against this: Push telepathy. Get every last detail of what happened from the girl's mind. Not only full sensory of the pain, but the shame and betrayal that her own father did that to her. Push telepathy again, every last thought of that, in first person, goes into Mr. Neanderthal's tiny little brain. "Darling, I need to talk to your father, where is he?" Push telepathy again. If meeting with the local head of state, mention to him how that ancient custom needs to be updated to the 21st century, and exceptions put on "any request." If he/she disagrees, upload the girl's memories. No push this time.

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Tao: As its not against the laws of the country and not her jurisdiction, she wouldn't interfere. Actually, she probably wouldn't be a bar in the first place...

 

Eve: Really out of genre for her, very four color setting.

 

Valkyrie: Same as Eve.

 

Ivy: Would be very torn, wanting to help the child but not wanting to stir matters to much and cause an incident that would threatned her own troubled life. She'd resecue the girl, violently if nessecary and take the repercussions, revealing ther circumstances to the press.

 

Velocity: Thirteen year old speedster think things out? She'd blitz out of there with the girl, likely after punching the caveman a few dozens times.. afterward chaos would ensue...

 

Shidoku: Out of genre for her (Street Level)

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Everything transpiring is perfectly legal but it is ethically all screwed up.

 

(And if your character would normally see this as the very height of morality, something has happened during negotiations that reached down into your character's very soul and reversed this.)

 

__________________

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

They'd like to open up trade relations' date=' bring in western dollars into the local economy and export the rare mineral McGuffinainum, used in making cars or microchips or whatever.[/quote']

Well, that settles why Kaja is there

Diplomatic negotiations are underway' date=' and the heroes have been asked to be bodyguards for the diplomats (or go along as a show of "Look at our cool heroes", or perhaps to assist the diplomats if they have any diplomatic and smooth talking skills. Either way, theyre tagging along)[/quote']

Ostensibly, Kaja is there to assist the diplomats, by providing a repository of knowledge on the customs of that island.

 

Inside the borders of this nation' date=' there happens to be an ages old law that simply states that a minor must obey any request of his/her father. Usually this just means washing the dishes and mowing then lawn, but there are some sick, twisted individuals who bend the law for their benefit,[/quote']

Kaja's knowledge of the ancient customs in this land (acquired through spiritual communion with some people who were actually alive back then) indicates that this nation has been moving toward the 21st century; that's why the custom isn't used for anything more than minor chores nowadays. But back when it was introduced, the island was trying to infuse new blood into its dying population by bringing back fertile wives - and children - from neighboring islands. To accelerate reproduction and break down resistance in the captured slaves, they made lack of obedience punishable by law.

Technically it would be kidnapping in the eyes of the primitive law' date=' but of it would be the right thing to do.[/quote']

Kaja would disagree; an act can't be taken out of context:

 

CNN, on the other hand would have a field day with this. Imagine the headlines: "Super heroes kidnap young girl!" And of course - congratulations, you just committed a crime of international proportions, and ruined three years of negotiations - thus forcing the local embassy to be abandoned and the loss of vital mining rights.

Heroes don't enforce justice by targeting every single independent crime - that's called a police state. Laws need to be backed by respect, not fear, and diplomats are in the process of negotiating with a government that will gain respect - and therefore power - by bringing in dollars to the local economy. This law, along with many others, can and will be changed to bring the country fully into the 21st century - but not by sacrificing the instrument of wider change in the name of a single immediate effect!

 

In context, this would amount to nothing more than condemning all the other young children to this fate, in the name of saving one who just happens to be in front of their eyes at this moment. Strike you as suspicious at all?

 

If the practice is common enough for them to observe it in their short time there, the local government has been covering this up, and making a public fuss over it will bring to light the history of that law. Locals in support of it will oppose the trading because they see the foreigners as the instigators of this trouble, and The Home Nation will break off negotiations in response to its local outcry.

 

If the practice is as unusual as the original post indicated, it can't be coincidence that something like this occurred right in front of the heroes' eyes; someone's trying to set them up.

But at least the kid is safe.

 

So - what do you do?

 

Kaja warns the rest of the group, then announces that he's going to the embassy to warn any other heroes there that someone might be trying to sabotage the diplomatic process. He urges the others to exercise caution, and suggests that they track down anyone else with "free time" to give the same warning.

 

Any requests (as he's leaving) that he assist with some action is met with the statement that he won't play into "their" hands like that, and a reminder that the heroes "must not" endanger the long-term hopes for this nation by allowing their impatience to insist on some changes now. They are, after all, so close to giving local officials the power to make a real difference . . .

 

Whether the other heroes take this at face value, or assume that he's trying to leave them alone to do their thing without having to (officially) know about it, is irrelevant to him. As is whether or not they actually decide to (eventually) do anything; if they do, it will cause a diplomatic incident that leads to the collapse of all trading, and if they don't, the information will be "leaked" later on, anyway (at the worst possible time), and the leak blamed on the same mysterious "they" who set up the heroes' encounter with that child in the first place.

 

In the end, diplomatic efforts will be set back for years, and the McGuffin mineral used for making cars or microchips or whatever, will be unavailable to The Home Nation for another few years, holding back the spread of technology . . .

 

What, you thought any of this was Kaja's morality? He's there to sabotage technology, as his true masters desire

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

if this were really the case, then children under the age of majority could literally do anything they wanted with impunity, under the guise of "daddy told me to do it". Rob a bank? Daddy said to, so it must be legal. Blow up a government building? Not illegal; dad said to do it.This is an extremely unlikely situation; if this were the case, then there is no way the USA should be involved in such a country, as it's obviously employing Bizarro-logic on the local, state, and federal government level.

 

What is more likely is that the child is not considered an accomplice to any crime comitted under the supervision/instruction of their parent. Children can still break the law, but if it was done due to parental instruction, then the parent is punished, rather than the child. Can we get some clarification regarding the actual law?

[Stone]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Quantum - Outraged! Would take the girl to embassy to get medical attention. He would push the diplomats to push for change. In the mean time he would find out how much dear old dad was charging and offer twice that on the condition he never pimped her out again. He'd then get in secret id and go find the caveman and have a face to fist chat w/him.

 

Spectre - The father and the other man must pay. The father would suffer a tragic accident, as would the caveman. The girl is an innocent and must be protected. This would mean she would be taken away to someplace, he simply would not care about the results.

 

Stone - Somebody needs to teach dad and Mongo a lesson. After making sure the girl was ok, he would grab a couple bricks and find away to be alone w/dad and the other guy. While grinding a brick to dust in his hand, he would suggest the daughter never be put in that position again. Otherwise he might be tempted do too certain parts of their anatomy what he did to the bricks. Of course he would deny any of this if the dad and other guy contacted the police.

[Whitewings]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

if this were really the case' date=' then children under the age of majority could literally do anything they wanted with impunity, under the guise of "daddy told me to do it". Rob a bank? Daddy said to, so it must be legal. Blow up a government building? Not illegal; dad said to do it.[/quote']

 

If the nation in question has such law, then you've got it exactly backwards: In such a situation, a minor committing a crime at the orders of a parent or guardian wouldn't take the heat; the parent would take it. But if the parent didn't order it, then they'd *both* catch it: The kid for the crime, the parent for neglect.

 

Oh, and on the subject of the occurrence "just happening" to be in front of the heros, I feel obligated to point out that the the normal rules of probability have a long and proud history of staying well away from super-beings.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

If the nation in question has such law, then you've got it exactly backwards: In such a situation, a minor committing a crime at the orders of a parent or guardian wouldn't take the heat; the parent would take it. But if the parent didn't order it, then they'd *both* catch it: The kid for the crime, the parent for neglect.

 

If that's the case, then the father and neaderthal are likely guilty of statutory rape: the fact that the girl was acting under orders of her parent has nothing to do with whether or not a 13-year old child was having sex with an adult. At the least, the father is guilty of the prostitution of a minor, unless for some reason funds or payment of some kind did not exchange hands.

 

The next option is that, in this country, adults having sex with 13 year olds isn't illegal. As a guess, this may be an legal consequence of having pre-arranged marriages and "child bride" laws. Or there could be a loophole in marriage laws, in which the groom can "try out" a "wife", and if he's unsatisfied, divorce her as long as he agrees to let go of some form of reverse dowry. (ie, the john pays a fee, marries the prostitute, has sex with his 'wife', and then divorces her, all in the space of an hour or so.)

 

Or it could be that puberty for girls is considered the age of majority - but if that was the case, then they wouldn't traditionally be considered children anymore. Which, I suppose, if you have layers upon layers of laws going, is a possible circumstance to arrive at - conflicting laws regarding the age of children and responsibilities and rights that come with it.

 

However: legally speaking, this is slavery (someone having total legal control over the actions of another). I believe the US has restrictions on dealing with countries that still have slavery on the books.

 

But to the original question:

 

Jake the Troll - probably wouldn't be on this mission; he's not really a national/team player.

 

Icon - the teenaged version wouldn't go, but the adult version is a federal agent; she'd probably get tapped for security detail. She's got too much political acumen (if only for working for the FBI for a couple of years) to make too big a stink about the whole thing. She'd quietly mention the whole incident to the diplomats in charge, to see if they knew about it. Other than that, she'd keep her peace. If the diplomats didn't do anything, she'd 'leak' the information to BBC or the like.

 

Shinji Miromoto - also not a federal/team player.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Oh' date=' and on the subject of the occurrence "just happening" to be in front of the heros, I feel obligated to point out that the the normal rules of probability have a long and proud history of staying well away from super-beings.[/quote']

 

This occurred to me, but since that woudn't prevent Kaja from making a big deal of it for his own purposes, I didn't bother mentioning

 

I believe the US has restrictions on dealing with countries that still have slavery on the books.

 

That's one of the things I was counting on

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Oh, and on the subject of the occurrence "just happening" to be in front of the heros, I feel obligated to point out that the the normal rules of probability have a long and proud history of staying well away from super-beings.

 

No kidding, even in New York City must people don't see a violent crime every day, but it seems like Peter Parker can't take out the trash with stumbling across one.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Wow. Nasty little bass-ackward country there.

 

Well, neither War Wolf nor Quantum Kitsune would hesitate in laying out the guy who did the dirty deed ... no lethal force, of course (go, 20pt CVK standard!), but the guy would NOT be happy.

 

After that, I think blackmail would be the order of the day. Quantum's a sneak, and WW's team has some stealth capabilities, so if this guy's willing to do this with his daughter, he's bound to have a lot of other dirt to dig up somewhere, somehow that can really screw him over.

 

Actually, not blackmail ... either one of them would just take it public and get the guy discreditted, ousted, and hopefully arrested and imprisoned.

[Metaphysician]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

My characters basically fall into two categories: those who cannot exist in this situation at all, and those who have zero compulsions at going straight to Step "Bloody Vengeance." And even the ones who can't exist in this scenario, if dropped into it anywhere, are rolling versus psych limits ( and *not* Total ones ) to see if they start killing people. Not a one would give a damn about diplomatic necessities. At least one would participate in the violent overthrow and conquest of the nation alongside his fellow party members.

 

That said, biggest problem with this scenario? Why the hell weren't you informed of this beforehand? Did the Mother Country not realize that child slavery was practiced here, or did they just not bother to tell you? Its either a plot hole, incompetency, or some serious extra iron in a scenario thats bad enough already.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

"CNN" would be fine with a Hero opposing child slavery and child prostitution, as would American public opinion, so I don't really agree with one of the core ideas in the scenario.

 

That said, Flesh Gordon is too Bronze Age for this scenario. Style would heal the child, imprison her abusers in hell dimensions, and document the fact that child sex slavery was legal in this country for human rights organizations that might be able to make a difference. Unless the country has Supers able to stop him, Style might take a month or two to force changes in the laws to reduce the incidence of this sort of abuse.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

biggest problem with this scenario? Why the hell weren't you informed of this beforehand? Did the Mother Country not realize that child slavery was practiced here' date=' or did they just not bother to tell you? Its either a plot hole,[/quote']

 

I figured Kaja would fill that hole nicely

 

Him being there to provide information about local customs wouldn't even be necessary if their own spies had done their job, so obviously they didn't know much.

 

Now, for a twist on this scenario, what would happen if Kaja was tagging along on your (PC's) expedition, and after a minute or two into your own exposure to this scenario, he tracked you down and ran up to report that exactly the same thing had just happened to them a few blocks away?

[Metaphysician]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Frankly, if Kaja were around at the time, most of my "start killing people" characters would include him/her/it in the casualty pile. Arguing for non-intervention + blatantly obvious ( to them ) ulterior motive = complicity in the crime.

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

"CNN" would be fine with a Hero opposing child slavery and child prostitution, as would American public opinion, so I don't really agree with one of the core ideas in the scenario.

.

 

Yeah, I had a problem with that part myself. There would be some political trouble, but I don't see a character getting crucified in the press for opposing essentially rituulized child sexual abuse in the US (and pretty much all First World nations). That's why I had Ivy go right to the press and explain the situation.

[TaxiMan]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Torque is a shapechanging mentalist, base gender (indeed species) unknown.

 

First, T would soothe the girl's memories. "He" would then locate a powerful person in the town who has a child. T would then replace said child (hiding the real kid safely in a pleasant trance) and arrange to be alone with the cave man and the victim's father using mild mental illusions. After a time, they would believe they participated in disgusting acts and T, still acting as the child of the VIP, would escape and dramatically inform on the men.

 

After firing up the VIP and the townspeople into a homicidal mob, T (still as the VIP's child) would run away in a hysterical, frenzied state.

 

Later, the VIP would find his child calm and happy, with memories of pleasant fantasies covering the last few hours. T will make sure that all believe it best to leave the child unaware of what "really" happened.

 

Whatever the mob does is fine by T.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

blatantly obvious ( to them ) ulterior motive

 

I'm aware that any of your characters can scan for mental influence, but all of them are fully telepathic too?

 

Anyway, they must be seriously powerful if they can perceive Kaja's true motivations under a Druid's unusual mental defenses

[Metaphysician]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Actually, checking that, there doesn't seem to be a single thing protecting against spotting her motive via psychological analysis, or from mind reading that is quick and/or subtle enough to go unnoticed by the decision box. And given all *that* does is trigger a biological self-destruct. . .

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Actually' date=' checking that, there doesn't seem to be a single thing protecting against spotting her[/quote']

 

His

 

motive via psychological analysis' date='[/quote']

 

Psychological analysis based on existing actions, all of which are openly geared toward protecting the diplomatic effort?

 

Psychological Disadvantage: Paranoia is not interchangeable with motive - in fact, given the consistency with which trouble seeks out heroes (as mentioned above for Peter Parker), it wouldn't even be paranoia so much as pragmatism and a functional grasp of the reality that Kaja so evidently lives in

 

or from mind reading that is quick and/or subtle enough to go unnoticed by the decision box.

 

Mind reading that still needs to realize, after penetrating typical (but enhanced-strength) mental defenses and accumulating enough extra effect to reach the subconscious mind, that the very real mind it is reading is, in turn, controlled by a distributed cellular consciousness that is fully invisible to Mental Awareness and IPE for its powers.

 

None of which, to be fair, you would know, since the exact builds haven't been posted yet. I'm working on a (semi-secret) annual HERO project that the Druid builds will draw upon (until then, the IDB should be built as extra ECV with IPE, its SFX* that the mentalist only thinks the Druid's mind was read), which is the main reason I hadn't gone back there to stat everything out the moment I finished reading 5ER

 

*Whew! Alphabet soup, much?

[John T]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Qurria'al (The Nightflyer), not being the deep-thinking, diplomatic type, would A) leave the politicking side of the affair to his more personable comrades, and become the child's personal, remorseless, terrifying, sleepless, unstoppable bodyguard. Daddy can TELL her to do anything he wants. Nobody... NOBODY... would be able to gain the benefit of said orders, unless they're tough enough to topple skyscrapers.

[Badger]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Well, my characters dont work for the gov't, so might not apply.

 

 

But, I do have to say, Badger would have probably utterly destroyed the pervert and saved the girl regardless of consequences. Ok, he probably would have destroyed the guy, the bar, and half the block before he calmed down. He just cant sit back and let something like that go unpunished regardless of what will result. Just not possible for him not to. Very protective of children and all.

 

 

Note: And if a team member were to try to stop Badger, the team member runs a very extreme risk of being the next target.

[薔薇語]

Re: WWYCD - little girls and diplomatic troubles

 

Being that The Rose is a not only a note worthy political figure, but also a well known super. If he was in this situation he would most defiantly have to worry about his "Public Appeal" and his own "Moral Code." Undoubtedly his team mates would flip and try to rend both adults to no more, and he would have to be the voice of "unwanted reason" and stop them. The idea of purchasing the child's company for the rest of the day(or longer if needed) does sound like a good idea. He would try his best to change the political climate there in order to dis-enfranchise this law in wake of more "Child friendly" legislation. But even he can only do so much, in a nation with long standing political/social beliefs.

 

La Rose

 

*I don't think there is a way in hell that when this event happens, that The Rose could even hope to stop his team. One is a young child himself and the other is a super independent heroine that never listens to him anyway. The Neanderthal is most likely going to die(or wish he was).*