Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Not quite -- because the HERO power of Shape Shift only creates cosmetic changes. To add any "power" you need Multiform. that's the weird hitchy part.

 

I understand you are building the spell casting system as a type of VPP but this particular spell appears to demand some type of secondary nested Power Framework in addition to what Shapeshift already covers. I would recommend a very basic Multipower Pool with 3 to 4 slots to cover different combos. The fact that the slot allocation is locked once a form is chosen should make it cheap enough to fit inside the meta-VPP

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Shapechange

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Oh, that's the giant uber version. Hyper-Man, I'm working the Level 2 version, which as I said, doesn't quite cover what I wanted, but unless you go huge, it's the most reasonable way to do it.

 

Killer Shrike's, that is.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I've completed 2nd Level Magic. Here it is, for your consumption (and reposted with 1st level, so you can get them all in one place). I won't create a "new" thread because I'm trying to keep it all together, and not SPAM the board with every update. SO.

 

Each one of these has taken me about 3 days, and that's with the computer in my lap nearly non-stop, so it'll definitely slow down after I get a job and finish recovering from surgery. Until then, I'm cranking (while I have the time to do so).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Oh, that's the giant uber version. Hyper-Man, I'm working the Level 2 version, which as I said, doesn't quite cover what I wanted, but unless you go huge, it's the most reasonable way to do it.

 

Killer Shrike's, that is.

 

Just make a version with the Active Points available.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

The newest group of spells have been finished and posted to the first post; in addition I've posted them here as well (the most recent post/the day they went up). As always, feedback is appreciated. Some of these I'm happy with, some not, but the goal right now is to go forward, get it done, tweak it later.

 

At some point I'll start doing the various Clerical spells, but that'll be a whole separate problem. Right now, you can piece together your own Clerical List just by going through the Hypertext document and figuring out which are which and then putting together the spheres. I will do an official version, I just don't know when.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Thought y'all might find this interesting; I think this fixes the problem with the spell. I found it after being involved in a discussion with Liaden & Dust Raven over... a mobile turret, I believe. Something I would never define as being indirect, but that certainly could be based on position, SFX and so on.

 

While reading the description of Indirect in the text, Steve specified that a "wizard's mobile ball of mage flame" would be defined as Indirect. Hence, I present this revised version -- now it does the damage I want AND has the effect it needs.

 

I think.

 

13 Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2), Indirect (Fully Mobile Ball of Fire) (Any origin, any direction; +3/4) (67 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Mobility (Next Attack Must be Within 6" of Last Attack; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

I'm working on HERO:CE right now (and writing my next digital HERO article, and applying for work, and learning Sharepoint) so I haven't done level 4 magic. However, there also hasn't been a big demand for it yet. Look for it in a month or so. Eventually I'll need to take a break from vehicle design, and I'll flip over to some d20 conversions.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Rather than Indirect, there is always Summon.

 

The advantage of summon for things like this is that they are independent of the caster, and move on their own phases. They can move around like a normal character, and interact in a fashion that Indirect and Continuous just don't quite capture.

 

 

Seeking Mage Missiles

 

Summon 4 137-point Seeking Mage Missiles, Slavishly Devoted (+1) (74 Active Points) Extra Time Full Phase, Incantations, Gestures (-1): Real Cost : 37

Seeking Mage Missile

[Enforcer84]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Bumpity Bump...Rest time is over!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Well, I got a lot of HERO: Combat Evolved done, but I'll throw together a spell level today. I need more rep for this.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

18 Black Tentacles [Conjuration (Creation)]: Telekinesis (20 STR), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Tentacles Grab Immediately Upon Target Entering Zone; +3/4), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1) (82 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Tentacles Only Grapple; -1), OIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; A piece of tentacle from a giant octopus or a giant squid.; -3/4), Requires A Conjuration (Creation) Roll (-1/2), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Limited Range (25" Maximum (Medium Range); -1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4)

 

Taking thoughts on this one; I might throw up Globe of Invulernability as well, but I think I got that one down.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's an alternative:

 

22 Black Tentacles [Conjuration (Creation)]: Change Environment 2" radius, +20 Points of Telekinetic STR, -3" of any one mode of Movement, Multiple Combat Effects (121 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1), Limited Power Tentacles Only Grapple (-1), OIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; A piece of tentacle from a giant octopus or a giant squid; -3/4), Requires A Conjuration (Creation) Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Limited Range (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) [1 cc]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

And while I'm on the subject, it wasn't long before I got stumped on this little gem: Secure Shelter. I'm just going to build it as "Summon Base" and be done, but if you have any other thoughts, I'm curious what they are.

 

7 Secure Shelter [Conjuration (Creation)]: Summon Shelter 250-point base, Ranged (10" (Close); +1/2) (75 Active Points); Casting Time (10 Minutes, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 1/4), 1 Charge (-2), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (Requires both hands; -1), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; Complex; -1), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Summon a Single Structure; -1), OAF ( A square chip of stone, crushed lime, a few grains of sand, a sprinkling of water, and several splinters of wood.; -1), Requires Multiple Foci or functions at reduced effectiveness (The focus of the alarm spell) (+1/4), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's another one -- Geas. in this case, Lesser Geas. This is one of those "Huh" moments for me; I wound up linking the Enchantment (which isn't quite powerful enough) to the Drain (which is also not quite powerful enough). To simulate the difficulty in removing a Geas I simply put on "Difficult to Dispel." Again, I'd like these at higher values; I don't know how useful this version of the spell is, but y'all can weigh in on that.

 

Geas, Lesser [Enchantment (Compulsion)]: (Total: 86 Active Cost, 13 Real Cost) Mind Control 8d6 (Human class of minds), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (50 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Set Effect (See Text; -1/2), Spell (Enchantment (Compulsion); -1/2), Requires An Enchantment Roll (-1/2), Mandatory Effect EGO +10 (Must Always Achieve [Particular Effect]; See Text; -1/2), Language Dependent (Target Must be Able to Understand Caster; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 9) plus Drain STR, DEX, INT, EGO simultaneously 1d6+1, Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Cumulative (+1/2), Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Ego simultaneously (+1) (36 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Geas Compulsion Activates every 24 Hours (See Text); -4), 1 Charge (-2), Linked (Geas, Lesser [Enchantment (Complusion)]; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Spell (Enchantment; -1/2), Requires An Enchantment Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

For those following along at home, this puts me squarely in the middle of 4th level Enchantments.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

FYI,

Mind Control already requires the target to understand the command. Otherwise there would be no need for the following Advantage:

 

Telepathic

(Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 132; Revised, page 204)

This Advantage represents Mind Control which doesn't require verbal communication.

 

Since the orignal spell lists a nebulous amount of "hit dice" as the absolute defense against this spell why not use Transform instead? You can then legally take the verbal comprehension required Limitation plus you can also define the drain-like effects of the spell as part of the Transform without the need of a compound power.

 

example:

 

19 Geas, Lesser [Enchantment (Compulsion)]: Major Transform 5d6 (standard effect: 15 points), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2) (112 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Requires An Enchantment Roll (-1/2), Spell (Enchantment (Compulsion); -1/2), Limited Target Language Dependent (Target Must be Able to Understand Caster) (-1/2), Limited Power Spell has no effect if target makes EGO roll at -10* when first targeted (Count Ego Defense as extra EGO for purposes of this roll.; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4) - END=[1]

 

 

(Fill out the 'descriptive' details as you wish, it is after all a MAJOR Transform.)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

First, I should've had a V8. This is a MUCH cleaner version of this, HM. THANK YOU. Second, and I ask you this as a personal courtesy, would you still throw in the Drain? I could be a real jerk and chuck it in as Side Effect (mua ha ha) but it's utterly and totally illegal. So I still need the linked Drain. I'm thinking since Transform is already Cumulative, this might be better off (for point balance purposes) as a shorter set of dice that gets cast over a longer period/multiple castings, although I'm unsure. 15 SER is still going to take two tosses to Transform most targets.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

First' date=' I should've had a V8. This is a MUCH cleaner version of this, HM. THANK YOU. Second, and I ask you this as a personal courtesy, would you still throw in the Drain? I could be a real jerk and chuck it in as Side Effect (mua ha ha) but it's utterly and totally illegal. So I still need the linked Drain. I'm thinking since Transform is already Cumulative, this might be better off (for point balance purposes) as a shorter set of dice that gets cast over a longer period/multiple castings, although I'm unsure. 15 SER is still going to take two tosses to Transform most targets. [/quote']

 

Keep in mind that Transform dice are already vs. BODY since the original power was based off of the Killing Attack mechanic (if you can kill something you should be able to turn it into something). The number of dice can be adjusted however you like to match your vision of what '7 hit dice' actually converts into in HERO terms.

 

Since Transform is already legally used to design crippling diseases I see no rules reason* it can't have a gradual 'drain effect' defined as part of the overall Transform. No need to take a second power. I works just like the 'duration' of the Geas, which is easily handled as a 'heal' condition of the Transform.

 

*(I haven't reviewed the book since posting this build)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

14 Phantasmal Killer [illusions (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]]: Ego Attack 4d6 (Human class of minds), Does BODY (+1) (80 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Requires An Illusion Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Illusion vs. Ego contests; If the Ego Roll Succeeds Over the Illusion Roll, the Spell Fails; -3/4), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium Range); -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Side Effects (If an Ego Roll succeeds, and if the target is wearing a 'Helm of Telepathy,' then the Caster is attacked by the Phantasmal Killer; -1/4)

 

Phantasmal Killer. Always curious about powers like this; it's my first true "mental attack." The 'monster' is just an SFX of an instant attack which I modeled as Ego Attack Does BODY.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I appear to have encountered some functionality loss. In the spell Rainbow Pattern, the core idea is that you take some mooks, Fascinate them, and then merrily either keep them out of the fight or lead them to their doom.

 

I can use Mind Control to manipulate and move them -- that's easy enough. And they'll get a second "save" (Breakout Roll) if they're about to do the lemming thing (and no comments about how lemmings don't do that, roll with me here people). So here's the big question.

 

Would you take this spell and "roll up" the entire effect + SFX into a limited Mind Control? Or would you also model the Fascination, which limits your PER rolls? I'm thinking that in HERO terms, Mind Control works wonders already, and being oblivious may be a SFX.

 

Thoughts?

 

17 Rainbow Pattern: (Total: 93 Active Cost, 17 Real Cost) Mind Control 6d6, Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1) (60 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (A crystal prism.; -1), Requires An Illusion Roll (-1/2), Set Effect (Fascination; -1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium); -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; Spell ends one phase after Concentration stops; -1/4) (Real Cost: 9) plus Change Environment 4" radius, -3 to Normal Hearing PER Rolls, -3 to Sight Group PER Rolls, Multiple Combat Effects (33 Active Points); OAF (A crystal prism.; -1), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (-3/4), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; Spell ends one phase after Concentration stops; -1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium Range); -1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

 

Or this one:

 

13 Rainbow Pattern II: Mind Control 5d6+1 (Human and Additional Class of Minds (monstrous humanoid) classes of minds), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1) (74 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Set Effect (Fascination; Can Force Fascinated Creatures to 'Follow the Lights'; -1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Requires An Illusion Roll (-1/2), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; Spell ends one phase after Concentration stops; -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Visible (Bright, Rainbow Patterned Lights; -1/4)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

First' date=' I should've had a V8. This is a MUCH cleaner version of this, HM. THANK YOU. Second, and I ask you this as a personal courtesy, would you still throw in the Drain? I could be a real jerk and chuck it in as Side Effect (mua ha ha) but it's utterly and totally illegal. So I still need the linked Drain. I'm thinking since Transform is already Cumulative, this might be better off (for point balance purposes) as a shorter set of dice that gets cast over a longer period/multiple castings, although I'm unsure. 15 SER is still going to take two tosses to Transform most targets. [/quote']

 

I just read Steve Long's response to your Transform question and have to disagree with his answer.

 

Transform can legally be used to wipe memories and turn a superhuman into a normal human. In the case of Geas I would just figure out the D&D3.5 minimum level of the spellcaster to actually cast the spell and say that's the maximum # of days the spell can last. It's also the maximum penalty for all of the 'drain effects'. The Transform is really causing the maximum with a delayed effect. Completion of the quest or spell duration are the only ways to avoid this effect.

 

Building it as a Triggered Drain runs into a problem in that any Power Defense would get applied to each individual Drain which makes no sense based on the spell description. Also, the effect on different characteristics via Drain will be different based on their cost.

 

The Transform version it only gets applied once, when the spell is 1st cast and would allow the effect on each characteristic to be equal. It doesn't have to be actually reducing the characteristics. It could just be imposing a semi-permanent CHA roll modifier to each. Plus, all these 'drain effects' are NND-like in that the target's mind is the real source of the effects.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I just read Steve Long's response to your Transform question and have to disagree with his answer.

 

Transform can legally be used to wipe memories and turn a superhuman into a normal human. In the case of Geas I would just figure out the D&D3.5 minimum level of the spellcaster to actually cast the spell and say that's the maximum # of days the spell can last. It's also the maximum penalty for all of the 'drain effects'. The Transform is really causing the maximum with a delayed effect. Completion of the quest or spell duration are the only ways to avoid this effect.

 

Building it as a Triggered Drain runs into a problem in that any Power Defense would get applied to each individual Drain which makes no sense based on the spell description. Also, the effect on different characteristics via Drain will be different based on their cost.

 

The Transform version it only gets applied once, when the spell is 1st cast and would allow the effect on each characteristic to be equal. It doesn't have to be actually reducing the characteristics. It could just be imposing a semi-permanent CHA roll modifier to each. Plus, all these 'drain effects' are NND-like in that the target's mind is the real source of the effects.

 

I see an easy solution to the "punishment" aspect of a Geas, done as a Transform. The Transform adds a Disad to the target (perfectly legitimate, and the only way TO add a disad legally in the system).

to whit: Susceptibility (to disobeying the imperative of the Geas). Then tailor the suspectiblity to taste and voila! No drain, same effect.

 

Heck, the complusion to perform the geas can be modeled the same way, as an added Psyche Limit rather than a mind control.

 

Edit: the penalty could also be done as a Dependence on persuing the quest

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

14 Phantasmal Killer [illusions (Phantasm) [Fear' date= Mind-Affecting]]: Ego Attack 4d6 (Human class of minds), Does BODY (+1) (80 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Requires An Illusion Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Illusion vs. Ego contests; If the Ego Roll Succeeds Over the Illusion Roll, the Spell Fails; -3/4), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium Range); -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Side Effects (If an Ego Roll succeeds, and if the target is wearing a 'Helm of Telepathy,' then the Caster is attacked by the Phantasmal Killer; -1/4)

 

Phantasmal Killer. Always curious about powers like this; it's my first true "mental attack." The 'monster' is just an SFX of an instant attack which I modeled as Ego Attack Does BODY.

 

 

Ego Attack is probably the simpler verision to use but here is a Mental Illusion based version:

 

18 Phantasmal Killer [illusions (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]]: Mental Illusions 25d6 (standard effect: 75 points) (Human class of minds) (125 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Mandatory Effect EGO +30 or Greater (Must Always Achieve [Particular Effect]; +20 (+50 Total) Target takes BODY and Stun from Illusory attacks; -1), Requires An Illusion Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; RSR Skill is subject to Illusion vs. Ego contests; If the Ego Roll Succeeds Over the Illusion Roll, the Spell Fails; -3/4), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4), Side Effects (Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; If an Ego Roll succeeds, and if the target is wearing a 'Helm of Telepathy,' then the Caster is attacked by the Phantasmal Killer; -1/4), Visible (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) - END=[1]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

HM: Sorry, I think this one is over my head. Would you mind breaking down for me the bit where the damage is dealt? Is this like a ... Summon? I'm lost.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I appear to have encountered some functionality loss. In the spell Rainbow Pattern' date=' the core idea is that you take some mooks, Fascinate them, and then merrily either keep them out of the fight or lead them to their doom.

 

I can use Mind Control to manipulate and move them -- that's easy enough. And they'll get a second "save" (Breakout Roll) if they're about to do the lemming thing (and no comments about how lemmings don't do that, roll with me here people). So here's the big question.

 

Would you take this spell and "roll up" the entire effect + SFX into a limited Mind Control? Or would you also model the Fascination, which limits your PER rolls? I'm thinking that in HERO terms, Mind Control works wonders already, and being oblivious may be a SFX.

 

Thoughts?

 

17 Rainbow Pattern: (Total: 93 Active Cost, 17 Real Cost) Mind Control 6d6, Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1) (60 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (A crystal prism.; -1), Requires An Illusion Roll (-1/2), Set Effect (Fascination; -1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium); -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; Spell ends one phase after Concentration stops; -1/4) (Real Cost: 9) plus Change Environment 4" radius, -3 to Normal Hearing PER Rolls, -3 to Sight Group PER Rolls, Multiple Combat Effects (33 Active Points); OAF (A crystal prism.; -1), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (-3/4), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; Spell ends one phase after Concentration stops; -1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium Range); -1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

 

Or this one:

 

13 Rainbow Pattern II: Mind Control 5d6+1 (Human and Additional Class of Minds (monstrous humanoid) classes of minds), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1) (74 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Set Effect (Fascination; Can Force Fascinated Creatures to 'Follow the Lights'; -1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Requires An Illusion Roll (-1/2), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; Spell ends one phase after Concentration stops; -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Visible (Bright, Rainbow Patterned Lights; -1/4)

 

I would definitely go with the 2nd option. Maybe increase the # of dice. The Limitation: Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2) is redundant when taking the Concentration Limitation. Concentration already gets interrupted if the character takes any STUN or BODY.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Y'all try this one on for size; thanks to t3h mastah of disastah, Steve Long for inspiring me to make this version:

 

Geas III [Enchantment (Compulsion)]: Drain All Base Stats Simultaneously 1d6, Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires 24 hours to reset, Character can set Trigger multiple times; +1/4), Cumulative (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Year (+1 1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Week; +1 3/4), All primary characterists simultaneously (+2) (75 Active Points); Casting Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Geas Compulsion Activates every 24 Hours (See Text); -1 1/4), Spell (Enchantment; -1/2), Requires An Enchantment Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4)