Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

[gripe]

 

There are a whole slew of spells that connect a Killing Attack to an effect, and the effect lasts for... however long. Or the KA is on a trigger. I can't have a KA on a trigger that isn't within the duration of the rules. I would use Continuing Charge for this, however, without Lingering there's no KA within the range of the effect.

 

The spell in question is Mage's Faithful Hound which I'm assuming at one time was Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, IIRC. It's a 6 hour long alarm with the ability to bite anyone who gets to close to it. Simple. It sits in place (like a faithful hound) and bites the bejeebers out of you. FINE.

 

But it isn't. I can build the images with detect on board and "handwave" it -- rules legal, up to "whatever the GM allows." So I gave it invisible and ethereal. Fine. But the KA is what makes it happen, which is going to put the cost through the gard-farging CEILING because it needs to be lingering for 6 hours (+1 3/4) and Armor Piercing.

 

I said I would make them as close as possible to d20 irregardless of cost, but I do try and get them close to where they need to be. This one's going to be nuts. Post follows.

 

[/gripe]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

While I'm at it, how the HECK does the power actually "Attack" anyone AFTER it's been placed?! Yeargh...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

[gripe]

 

There are a whole slew of spells that connect a Killing Attack to an effect, and the effect lasts for... however long. Or the KA is on a trigger. I can't have a KA on a trigger that isn't within the duration of the rules. I would use Continuing Charge for this, however, without Lingering there's no KA within the range of the effect.

 

The spell in question is Mage's Faithful Hound which I'm assuming at one time was Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, IIRC. It's a 6 hour long alarm with the ability to bite anyone who gets to close to it. Simple. It sits in place (like a faithful hound) and bites the bejeebers out of you. FINE.

 

But it isn't. I can build the images with detect on board and "handwave" it -- rules legal, up to "whatever the GM allows." So I gave it invisible and ethereal. Fine. But the KA is what makes it happen, which is going to put the cost through the gard-farging CEILING because it needs to be lingering for 6 hours (+1 3/4) and Armor Piercing.

 

I said I would make them as close as possible to d20 irregardless of cost, but I do try and get them close to where they need to be. This one's going to be nuts. Post follows.

 

[/gripe]

 

After reading the spell description it seems like the perfect situation to use the Summon power. The different situational durations are easily handled as Disadvantages. The invisibility can be bought with a Naked Personal Immunity UOO (the caster). How tough to make the 'Hound' itself is the real trick. There might be a good template to start from in the HSBestiary or Monsters, Minions & Marauders.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

While I'm at it' date=' how the HECK does the power actually "Attack" anyone AFTER it's been placed?! Yeargh...[/quote']

 

Well, that would require carefully reading the Trigger rules which, after adjustment rules, is one of my least favorite parts of the system. Or maybe I'm just too lazy to play around with them yet.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Oh yeah. You're a help.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Oh yeah. You're a help.

 

Be careful what you ask for.

 

The way I look at it your're doing all the 'framing' legwork. I'm just doing some finishing carpentry here and there. Kind of like the old 3-M comercials: "We don't make 'X', we make 'X' better."

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

[gripe]

 

There are a whole slew of spells that connect a Killing Attack to an effect, and the effect lasts for... however long. Or the KA is on a trigger. I can't have a KA on a trigger that isn't within the duration of the rules. I would use Continuing Charge for this, however, without Lingering there's no KA within the range of the effect.

 

The spell in question is Mage's Faithful Hound which I'm assuming at one time was Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, IIRC. It's a 6 hour long alarm with the ability to bite anyone who gets to close to it. Simple. It sits in place (like a faithful hound) and bites the bejeebers out of you. FINE.

 

But it isn't. I can build the images with detect on board and "handwave" it -- rules legal, up to "whatever the GM allows." So I gave it invisible and ethereal. Fine. But the KA is what makes it happen, which is going to put the cost through the gard-farging CEILING because it needs to be lingering for 6 hours (+1 3/4) and Armor Piercing.

 

I said I would make them as close as possible to d20 irregardless of cost, but I do try and get them close to where they need to be. This one's going to be nuts. Post follows.

 

[/gripe]

 

I'm still not sure about the attack bit either but how's this?

 

34 Guard Hound: (Total: 179 Active Cost, 34 Real Cost) Detect Intruder(s) and Bark (Transmit) A Class Of Things 17- (Mystic Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, Sense, Targeting, Transmit, 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Day (+0), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); Begins barking when an intruder is detected; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Limited Power Only to represent senses of 'Triggered' Guard Hound (-2), OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1 1/4), Linked (When Guard Hounds Attack!; -1/2), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 9) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; When Guard Hound Attacks!; +3/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), Continuous (+1) (127 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1), OAF (-1), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 25) - END=[1 cc]

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Mordenkainens Faithful Hound

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Mordenkainens Faithful Hound

 

Do you have a writeup for the actual hound as well?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Mordenkainens Faithful Hound

 

Actually, I compeltely disagree with this construction; it doesn't really represent the purpose of the spell to me, as there is no hound -- the hound is just an SFX of the spell; the spell is really an alarm zone with an attack function attached to it.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Actually' date=' I compeltely disagree with this construction; it doesn't really represent the purpose of the spell to me, as there is no [i']hound[/i] -- the hound is just an SFX of the spell; the spell is really an alarm zone with an attack function attached to it.

 

But it is simpler to use in some important ways. And definitely cheaper to impliment. I bet it could even be built with EDM senses and attacks to reflect that it couldn't be attacked.

 

It also handles the major disconnect between D&D rounds (everyone gets the same #) and HERO phases. I'm still a little fuzzy on the attack function of the spell as written in the 3.5 PH. Is the +10 attack bonus to that of the spell's caster?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Do you have a writeup for the actual hound as well?

 

I didn't, but its a matter of about 10 minutes to make one....

 

Faithful Hound

 

However, it could be whatever you want within 225 points if that particular build doesn't appeal.

[Rifter]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I didn't, but its a matter of about 10 minutes to make one....

 

Faithful Hound

 

However, it could be whatever you want within 225 points if that particular build doesn't appeal.

 

cool dog :-)

 

could you post the hdc-file too ?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Sure...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

14 Phantasmal Killer [illusions (Phantasm) [Fear' date= Mind-Affecting]]: Ego Attack 4d6 (Human class of minds), Does BODY (+1) (80 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Requires An Illusion Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Illusion vs. Ego contests; If the Ego Roll Succeeds Over the Illusion Roll, the Spell Fails; -3/4), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium Range); -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Side Effects (If an Ego Roll succeeds, and if the target is wearing a 'Helm of Telepathy,' then the Caster is attacked by the Phantasmal Killer; -1/4)

 

Phantasmal Killer. Always curious about powers like this; it's my first true "mental attack." The 'monster' is just an SFX of an instant attack which I modeled as Ego Attack Does BODY.

 

This needs Lingering or Continuous or something. IIRC, a Phantasmal Killer

could hang around a while. Also IIRC, it would affect anything with at least animal intelligence, not just humans. It probably should have Animal and Alien classes of minds with a Limitation that it doesn't affect targets with the non-intelligent Disad.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

FYI: Because of the open ended nature of the magic system' date=' i.e., people aren't restricted to which spells they put in which slots, only to how many points they have available, the spell [i']Mnemonic Enhancer [/i]will not be included; it exists purely as part of the d20 meta-concept (spell levels & slots) and thus doesn't 'function' in HERO. If anyone has anything different to say about it, or can think of a nifty effect that this spell could replicate in HERO terms, by all means, let me know.

 

I'm not sure how you've got this system set up overall. If I was building a d20 inspired (agh, strange concept) magic system, each spell level would be its own multipower, with a number of charges available to each multipower that jibes with wizard levels from the PH.

 

The Mnemonic Enhancer then becomes a naked advantage, or, as is probably the case, "naked lesser limitation". You'd have to figure how many points it would cost to add 2 more charges to each multipower, and take the cost of the most expensive one. It's also kind of a weird build, and I'm not sure Hero Designer would accept it. If Hero Designer does, it's not certain the GM would, although, IIRC, you're your GM anyway.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

This needs Lingering or Continuous or something. IIRC, a Phantasmal Killer

could hang around a while. Also IIRC, it would affect anything with at least animal intelligence, not just humans. It probably should have Animal and Alien classes of minds with a Limitation that it doesn't affect targets with the non-intelligent Disad.

 

re: Lingering or Continuous

 

The original spell has has a duration defined as Instantaneous.

 

from:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantasmalKiller.htm

(which is pretty close if not identical to the D&D 3.5 version as far as I can tell)

 

And here was my alternative build:

 

Ego Attack is probably the simpler verision to use but here is a Mental Illusion based version:

 

18 Phantasmal Killer [illusions (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]]: Mental Illusions 25d6 (standard effect: 75 points) (Human class of minds) (125 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Mandatory Effect EGO +30 or Greater (Must Always Achieve [Particular Effect]; +20 (+50 Total) Target takes BODY and Stun from Illusory attacks; -1), Requires An Illusion Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; RSR Skill is subject to Illusion vs. Ego contests; If the Ego Roll Succeeds Over the Illusion Roll, the Spell Fails; -3/4), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4), Side Effects (Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; If an Ego Roll succeeds, and if the target is wearing a 'Helm of Telepathy,' then the Caster is attacked by the Phantasmal Killer; -1/4), Visible (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) - END=[1]

 

FYI, an additional class of minds would increase the active cost to 135 and the real cost to 19.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

re: Lingering or Continuous

 

The original spell has has a duration defined as Instantaneous.

 

from:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantasmalKiller.htm

(which is pretty close if not identical to the D&D 3.5 version as far as I can tell)

 

Huh. I've never actually played any form of D&D since 1st ed, but I swore that spell would hang around a while, like Phantasmal Force. Maybe it did way back when, I dunno.

 

I stand corrected.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hey, there are responses here I need to get too, although it seems my closer (Hyper-Man) has already answered some of this. I did consider another Class of Minds, but it went outside the boundaries of the spell point cap I was trying to preserve, so I left it as is.

 

Here's my current conundrum, for y'all to chew on. I have no clue how to begin modeling this, and I'm sure I could noodle through it, but i'm having an off day so I'm going to stick to the easy ones for now.

 

Contact Other Plane. And no, there is no magical island. I'm not even going to list all the possible effects here; I already put together a chart for Teleportation and I don't feel like building this one. So I'm open to suggestions on how to build this.

 

If you can keep it inside of 90 AP, awesome. If you can't, hey, post your build anyway.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hey, there are responses here I need to get too, although it seems my closer (Hyper-Man) has already answered some of this. I did consider another Class of Minds, but it went outside the boundaries of the spell point cap I was trying to preserve, so I left it as is.

 

Here's my current conundrum, for y'all to chew on. I have no clue how to begin modeling this, and I'm sure I could noodle through it, but i'm having an off day so I'm going to stick to the easy ones for now.

 

Contact Other Plane. And no, there is no magical island. I'm not even going to list all the possible effects here; I already put together a chart for Teleportation and I don't feel like building this one. So I'm open to suggestions on how to build this.

 

If you can keep it inside of 90 AP, awesome. If you can't, hey, post your build anyway.

 

How's this?

 

13 Contact Other Plane: Precognitive, Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Mental Group And Detect), Perceive into any dimension, Transmit (82 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -1 1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1), Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Side Effects (-1/2), Vague and Unclear (see table at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contactOtherPlane.htm; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4) - END=[1 cc]

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here is how I did Rarys Mnemonic Enhancer and here is how I did Contact Other Plane.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here is how I did Rarys Mnemonic Enhancer and here is how I did Contact Other Plane.

 

Your Enhancer is perfect for your custom VPP solution. I don't know what Thia' has planned in that regard.

 

I wasn't sure about combining Concentration with Blackout since it seemed like double dipping (like having both Restrainable and Guestures). I came pretty close to matching you exactly considering I didn't 'cheat' by looking at yours first.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Your Enhancer is perfect for your custom VPP solution. I don't know what Thia' has planned in that regard.

 

I wasn't sure about combining Concentration with Blackout since it seemed like double dipping (like having both Restrainable and Guestures). I came pretty close to matching you exactly considering I didn't 'cheat' by looking at yours first.

 

Its been many years since I did the write up, but if I recall correctly, the concentration isn't "THROUGHOUT" and thus applies to the EXTRA TIME it takes to cast. The Blackout Lim is in effect while the Power is in use.

 

The net effect of using them together is the character is zoned out both while turning the power on and while using it.

 

But...my memory could be faulty on that.

 

 

And if the true measure of another persons intelligence is the degree to which they agree with you, then you sir are a genius in my book!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here is a link to view part of what Thia has put together so far for those without HDesigner:

 

1st Level Wizard Spells

 

I will post the rest when I have time.

 

Thia, I'm a little disapointed that you didn't include several of my alternative writeups.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Several? You have my apologies, then, as I tried to be diligent about it, but it is a huge project. If you'd like me to go back and include them, I'd be happy to do so. It wasn't an intentional oversight -- simply the act of "going through" and I probably intended to go back and add them and simply didn't. I'll be happy to put them into the prefab files. No offense meant.