A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

[assault]

Just for fun, I've done an analysis of the characters and organisations mentioned in the first edition Champions rules.

 

This post is intended to document what is there. I will attempt to rationalise the material into something vaguely coherent in later posts.

 

I have intentionally focussed on a single source. Other material can be brought in later.

 

So, here is the basic material, drawn from 1st Ed Champions:

---

Organisations.

 

CIA

FBI

OSI

UNTIL

VIPER

Dr Lirby Koo's organisation

Bio Investigations

New York superteam

LA superteam

Chicago superteam

Canadian superteam

 

People.

 

Heroes.

 

(Each known team has 4 or more members, implying the existence of at least 16 superheroes.)

Starburst - Hunted by Pulsar.

Crusader.

Shrinker - eventually goes rogue.

 

Villains.

 

Ogre - Hunted by Mechanon.

Mechanon - Hunted by LA superteam.

Armadillo - Hunted by Chicago & Canadian superteams.

Dragonfly - Hunted by Chicago superteam.

Icicle - Hunted by New York superteam.

Shrinker - Hunted by New York superteam, once she goes rogue.

Pulsar - Hunts Starburst, so probably located where ever he is.

Howler - Hunted by FBI, so probably in the USA.

Green Dragon - Hunted by CIA, so active outside USA, as well as inside. Sister in USA. Connection with remnants of Dr Lirby Koo's organisation.

 

Others.

 

Major Martinez - UNTIL, Paraguayan "ex-freedom fighter".

Dr Lirby Koo.

VIPER "inner circle".

Aliens - source of Howler's powers.

Green Dragon's sister.

Starburst's Lab Assistant.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Some things I'm thinking about:

 

1. What relationship, if any, is there between VIPER and Lirby Koo's organisation? I think I might leave this unspecified. I have absolutely no objection to the players suspecting that LK is the head of VIPER, but I feel no great obligation to confirm or deny it at this time. Green Dragon, of course, will quite happily work for VIPER or nearly anyone else...

 

2. Major Martinez is an "ex-freedom fighter". Who was he fighting against, and when?

 

3. How does UNTIL work? While I am not using any other canon other than the brief description in "the book", there is still the problem of it being a UN agency. Of course it might not be quite as "international" as it might appear.

 

4. When is this setting? Is this all a description of the situation in the early 80s, or in 2007? There is a certain appeal in making it the early 80's...

[MitchellS]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

2. Major Martinez is an "ex-freedom fighter". Who was he fighting against' date=' and when?[/quote']

I'm guessing he was fighting against President Alfredo Stroessner Matiauda who was the dictator of Paraguay from 1954 to 1989.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

I'm guessing he was fighting against President Alfredo Stroessner Matiauda who was the dictator of Paraguay from 1954 to 1989.

 

In Cold War terms that makes him a Eeevil Commie, and thus ineligible for being head of UNTIL.

 

I'll discuss my alternative in my next post.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Thoughts on the things I was thinking about:

 

1. I definitely will leave any relationship between VIPER and Lirby Koo's organisation unspecified. They may be the same - or completely unrelated.

 

2. I think I will say that Major Martinez rose to prominence opposing a supervillain's attempt to take over Paraguay. That's appropriately in genre, while avoiding Cold War issues.

 

3. I will address this in more depth in a subsequent posting. However, the villains listed as Hunted by UNTIL are:

Mechanon - global threat

Green Dragon - operates internationally, and linked to Lirby Koo

Dragonfly - former UNTIL scientist

Pulsar - strong connection to VIPER

 

This could be interpreted as UNTIL focussing on the big time international threats, not the bank robber villains.

 

4. I am definitely going for an early 80's setting. (Circa 1981.) I'm vaguely assuming that superbeings first appeared in the 70s, at least in any numbers. UNTIL has probably been in the super agent business for less than a decade, and quite possibly for no more than five years.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

In Cold War terms that makes him a Eeevil Commie, and thus ineligible for being head of UNTIL.

 

What's stopping Communists from being part of UNTIL? There were Communists in the UN at the time.

[gojira]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Members yes, but would the US and western Europe ever agree to put someone like Che Guevara in charge of a UN police organization? Even established long time members like the USSR would be unlikely to be allowed to lead a major organization like that.

 

Just switch the former dictator of Paraguay to some Eeeevil supervillain, a la Dr. Doom or Magneto. Thus he'd be opposed by everyone, plus Martinez was a socialist, not a communist, and his appointment to UNTIL was strongly supported by the United Kingdom.

 

It's all in the P. R. spin.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Members yes, but would the US and western Europe ever agree to put someone like Che Guevara in charge of a UN police organization? Even established long time members like the USSR would be unlikely to be allowed to lead a major organization like that.

 

I would expect that he'd have to serve with UNTIL for quite a while before being placed in charge of it. Probably on the order of 15-20 years. I wouldn't have a problem with putting Che Guevara in charge of an international police organization if he'd honorably served 20 years in that body. A common thug or terrorist would hardly show up the thousands of other UNTIL operatives enough to even be considered for the position.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

What's stopping Communists from being part of UNTIL? There were Communists in the UN at the time.

 

Because in a four colour setting, Commies are Eeevil, and this is a four colour setting. Bronze Age, but still four colour.

 

Martinez is a Nick Fury analogue - a "good guy" - and is also a major character in the setting. Therefore, he can't be a Commie.

 

If you want "realism", think of him being chosen on the grounds of relative neutrality - someone acceptable to both the US and the Soviet Union. If he was too closely identified with one, the other would have vetoed him.

 

I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I'm thinking that UNTIL was a result of the 1968 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. While it was initially merely a monitoring agency, it ended up as something of a figleaf for joint operations between the US, UK and USSR(!) against mutual threats. France and China aren't part of it.

 

All of this has taken place between 1968 and 1981, remember.

 

For the record, when I write "Commie", it should be read in the Dr Strangelove sense, rather than as a reference to leftists from the Real Worldtm.

[Yansuf]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

In Cold War terms that makes him a Eeevil Commie, and thus ineligible for being head of UNTIL.

 

I'll discuss my alternative in my next post.

 

Why does anyone who fights against a fascist dictator have to be a commie?

[Peregrine]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Why does anyone who fights against a fascist dictator have to be a commie?

 

Because, in Third World nations, they usually are...

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Because' date=' in Third World nations, they usually are...[/quote']

 

I really really don't think we should go there.

 

Generally speaking, though, in the context of the Cold War rebels against pro-Western governments, however unsavoury, tended to be viewed as 'on the other side". It doesn't matter what Martinez actually stood for, he would have been viewed with suspicion by "the West".

 

Making him an opponent of a supervillain (or villainous organisation) ducks the issue nicely, and reduces the risk of the kind of flamewar that we are perilously close to.

[MitchellS]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Generally speaking' date=' though, in the context of the Cold War rebels against pro-Western governments, however unsavoury, tended to be viewed as 'on the other side". It doesn't matter what Martinez actually stood for, he would have been viewed with suspicion by "the West".[/quote']

Depending on what you're wanting to do long term having Martinez chosen as the leader of UNTIL [a person opposing a pro-Western government and thus viewed as a "Commie"] could be the reason for the foundation of SAT and PRIMUS and the eventual expulsion of UNTIL from US soil.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Depending on what you're wanting to do long term having Martinez chosen as the leader of UNTIL [a person opposing a pro-Western government and thus viewed as a "Commie"] could be the reason for the foundation of SAT and PRIMUS and the eventual expulsion of UNTIL from US soil.

 

I don't have that much of a plan, and frankly it's too Iron Age for what I want.

 

Obviously if anyone else wants to use a similar universe, they can do whatever they want.

 

Of course I am going to eventually have to decide who tried to take over Paraguay, but I'm definitely going to go with the fact of the attempt.

[MitchellS]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

I don't have that much of a plan' date=' and frankly it's too Iron Age for what I want.[/quote']

Actually that'd be bronze age, not iron [and it follows the established pre 5E CU timeline].

 

Obviously if anyone else wants to use a similar universe, they can do whatever they want.

Sorry. I thought the purpose of this tread was to throw out ideas that you might not have though of. I'll leave you to your private musings then.

[Scott Baker]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Just remembering back a quarter century here, but when my friends and I were playing first edition Champions we felt that the setting was meant to be contemporary. So I like the fact that this is being set in the early 80s.

 

We also treated Viper and Dr Lirby Koo's organization as separate entities. Based on the main champions book we never saw any sort of connection between the two--unles they were in competition to retrieve some object for their next great scheme.

 

Scott Baker

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Actually that'd be bronze age' date=' not iron [and it follows the established pre 5E CU timeline'].

 

The only "canon" I am dealing with is what's in the 1st Edition Champions book.

 

I've considered adding Escape from Stronghold and the Genocide entry from Enemies, but they add extra complexity to the network. (Let's face it, I'm currently mapping a network and trying to rationalise it.)

 

While I do intend to extend from where I have started, I don't think that PRIMUS is likely to appear. SAT might.

 

Sorry. I thought the purpose of this tread was to throw out ideas that you might not have though of. I'll leave you to your private musings then.

 

Sorry to be abrupt, but the thread was threatening to go NGD. And, after all, the reason why I am soliciting ideas is that so I can use them.

 

I still need to spend the time necessary to rationalise UNTIL. This is the trickiest part of the whole exercise. After that, it's just a matter of filling in the gaps, and writing the timeline.

 

I welcome input. I am not interested in thread hijackers.

[Vestnik]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Because in a four colour setting, Commies are Eeevil, and this is a four colour setting. Bronze Age, but still four colour.

 

Yeah, but was Communism even mentioned in the first edition CU? Or geopolitics at all? Why does CU history have to follow real-world history/pseudo-history?

 

EDIT: whoops, sorry, just saw Assault's thread-hijacking comment.

[Mark Rand]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Were Marksman, Rose, and Flare First Edition? If so, DEMON should be on the list, too, because Rose exposed a number of their scams.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Why does CU history have to follow real-world history/pseudo-history?

 

Good question.

 

I suppose the main reason is conservation of effort, aka laziness.

 

Changing as little as possible maximises the players' familiarity with the setting, and is less work for the GM. "It's easier that way". At one level, it's a copout, but who cares?

 

In this situation I am going for a timeline that really only diverges from the Real World after about 1968, that is, around 13 years before my "NOW" point of 1981. Not a lot of change at all.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Were Marksman' date=' Rose, and Flare First Edition? If so, DEMON should be on the list, too, because Rose exposed a number of their scams.[/quote']

 

No details of Marksman etc were given in the first edition book, so I haven't included them.

 

DEMON doesn't appear before the PRIMUS and DEMON book, which is way outside my current canon. I doubt I would use either group. SAT is more likely, since it appeared earlier.

 

But that's still a little down the track, since I'm still just using the original book as canon.

[Mark Rand]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

No details of Marksman etc were given in the first edition book, so I haven't included them.

 

DEMON doesn't appear before the PRIMUS and DEMON book, which is way outside my current canon. I doubt I would use either group. SAT is more likely, since it appeared earlier.

 

But that's still a little down the track, since I'm still just using the original book as canon.

 

Okay. I must've been thinking of the second edition.

[assault]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

A slight extension to my canon: I am now going to use The Island of Doctor Destroyer, Escape from Stronghold and a few bits and pieces from Enemies.

 

This means that I am using the background text from EfS, and probably the Project Salvation stuff from the Genocide writeup in Enemies. That would add Genocide to the world.

 

I would also be adding the various villains from the two adventures. A couple of them are hunted by PSI, which means I have to add that organisation. That sits nicely with Genocide, and overcomes my reluctance to use the latter. (I'm more impressed by the fluff text than by the anti-mutant theme.)

 

Most importantly, of course, I now know that it was Dr D who tried to take over Paraguay.

 

I'm treating Enemies in a piecemeal fashion, using some characters and ignoring others. Thunder and Lightning are definitely in - as heroes!

 

That gives me a total of five NPC heroes, three of which are likely to go rogue. That should hold me, although obviously there are zillions of others I could add.

 

I don't have a copy of Deathstroke. It doesn't seem like there is much there I would need to add anyway, although SAT is tempting. (I might sneak it in sooner or later.)

 

I'm treating UNTIL as mainly being a research and investigation outfit. While it will sometimes launch major operations like the attack on Dr Destroyer's island, I suspect it mainly does so using assets "borrowed" from other organisations.

 

It doesn't usually traipse around the US chasing bank robbers. If Ogre is robbing a bank, call the FBI. Don't call UNTIL unless Mechanon turns up to recapture him. The main exceptions are cases like Dragonfly, who UNTIL is to some degree responsible for, or various inmates of Stronghold, who UNTIL is studying or has studied.

 

In short, UNTIL isn't a huge UN controlled international high-tech army/police force. Rather, it is a relatively small research/intelligence agency, most of whose field agents are more like spies than canon fodder in orange kevlar. That means, incidentally, that the agent that appears in the 1st Ed Champions book is the weakest UNTIL agent you are likely to meet, apart from noncombatant scientists and the like.

 

I doubt that the fact that I am not using the official versions of UNTIL and VIPER is going to cause me much drama, and I like my versions better.

 

I'll probably just rip characters from various sources individually from here. My framework is pretty much in place now. I suppose I should whip up a bit of a timeline, but that should pretty much be it.

[Vestnik]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

Good question.

 

I suppose the main reason is conservation of effort, aka laziness.

 

Changing as little as possible maximises the players' familiarity with the setting, and is less work for the GM. "It's easier that way". At one level, it's a copout, but who cares?

 

In this situation I am going for a timeline that really only diverges from the Real World after about 1968, that is, around 13 years before my "NOW" point of 1981. Not a lot of change at all.

 

 

Personally, if I were going to rewrite the world's history of the past few decades with something like UNTIL in it, I would introuduce the "having had the very existence of human civilization threatened on several occasions by alien invasion, extradimensional horrors, and megalomaniacal psychpaths with the powers of gods, the nations of Earth began to act rationally for a change and decided to form UNTIL, an organization that would safeguard the planet against such threats while remaining above mere Earthly politics."

 

Or something of that sort.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: A skeletal CU from 1st Ed Champions

 

...the nations of Earth began to act rationally for a change...

 

I think he's going for realism here.