Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

[JmOz]

I was reading & posting in a nother thread that got me thinking.

 

How many of you have or normaly play a character who is the jack of all trades master of none type. You know, the team brick has Str 100, you only have str 75, but you have some secondary investigative skills, but not as good as skill guy does, and while your not as fast as the speedster you are still the second guy to get there, etc...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Well... a gadgetter or other VPP user can be... but I assume you mean someone without using mechanisms such as those...?

[GAZZA]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Most games I run/play in have 3-4 players, so there's a lot of archetypes to choose from before having to take 2nd place at everything.

 

There's a lot of flexibility in HERO; short of being built on a lot less points than your fellow players, you're probably going to be the best at something.

[bwdemon]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I have played this sort of character on occasion, usually because I like powered armor characters.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I have a big one in that catagory - Ballistic my supermage supersuit.

 

He was the "lesser brick" with a 50 when the main brick had a 75. His ranged attacks were about 10 or 15 active points less than the "pure" Energy projector. He had martial arts, but his CV was not up to the team martial artist. His speed was middle of the pack. He had a nice wide range of skills, including investigation, but wasn't the teams superdetective.

 

He may not have been the best at anything, but there was never a situation where he couldn't contribute.

 

 

My wife plays the "heinz 57" kind of characters all the time. Not usually the best at anything (although not infrequently the team brick), but has a smattering of powers and skills that can be used in any situation - in our current New Champs game, she is the team brick - but is also a detective, has energy projection powers, and some telepathy.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I am currently playing a Ben 10 homage using monster forms (Monster Man) that would fit this mold. Instead of packing it onto one character, he uses multiform. Because I can function as several different archetypes, I was careful to make sure I was second fiddle in each.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I have played this sort of character on occasion' date=' usually because I like powered armor characters.[/quote']Yeah, my powered armor character, Interceptor, is basically in this mold too. On offense, he has a wide array of attack types (including high STR), but all of them at lower levels than someone who specializes in a single type. Likewise movement, he has several movement modes, all effective, but none outstanding. He does have excellent defenses... he has the highest DEF and rDEF in his team. But since he's not a "real" brick, and lacks the STUN and REC to back those high DEFs up, he doesn't "play" like he's the toughest of the heroes on the team.

[bwdemon]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Yeah' date=' my powered armor character, Interceptor, is basically in this mold too. On offense, he has a wide array of attack types (including high STR), but all of them at lower levels than someone who specializes in a single type. Likewise movement, he has several movement modes, all effective, but none outstanding. He [b']does[/b] have excellent defenses... he has the highest DEF and rDEF in his team. But since he's not a "real" brick, and lacks the STUN and REC to back those high DEFs up, he doesn't "play" like he's the toughest of the heroes on the team.

 

Defense is probably the major power for my power armor characters, too, though intelligence and associated skills are usually pretty close. Outside of that, I tend toward a breadth of offensive options that run a bit shy of the game's active point limits (e.g. @50ap attacks in a 60ap game, @60ap attacks in a 75ap game, etc.).

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Yeah' date=' my powered armor character, Interceptor, is basically in this mold too. On offense, he has a wide array of attack types (including high STR), but all of them at lower levels than someone who specializes in a single type. Likewise movement, he has several movement modes, all effective, but none outstanding. He [b']does[/b] have excellent defenses... he has the highest DEF and rDEF in his team. But since he's not a "real" brick, and lacks the STUN and REC to back those high DEFs up, he doesn't "play" like he's the toughest of the heroes on the team.

 

Given my example is also powered armor - I'm sensing a trend here.

[bwdemon]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Given my example is also powered armor - I'm sensing a trend here.

 

There are a few possible reasons for that. First, the favorite power armored characters are JOATMON types, so this becomes the default in games. Second, you see it more often on powered armor types, because they have the power limitation to help bear the brunt of the additional costs. Take the -1/4 OIHID or -1/2 OIF limitation off of those extra characteristics and powers and the character's cost jumps significantly. Third, people who like powered armor characters might be the same people who like JOATMON characters.

 

I would also put gadgeteers in this boat, because they typically have normal stats, foci for powers, and a wide range of abilities instead of a concise set. You won't see the same sort of strength levels on most gadgeteers, but you will see a greater range of powers.

[Cancer]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I tend to build and end up with "Jack of all" characters, but my experience is that such characters end up being unrewarding to play. Yes, you get to attempt lots of different things. But it's not like you succeed at any of them. When all's said an done, the JoaT character is best suited to be the receptionist at the team HQ, and that's about all they're good for. It's a psychlim in my real-life personality that I end up trying to cover too many situations with my character, and it works out that such characters just aren't worth a whole lot in the campaigns I'm in.

 

(Next time I do character generation, I'm going to head out into a corner. A low-INT, fie-on-Skills corner.)

 

Having lots of defenses but piddly attacks means (in City of Heroes terms) you can't hold aggro, so the bad guys ignore you and beat up the high-attack low-defense characters. Now you're stuck in a purely reactive mode, and that stinks.

[pinecone]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

It's a type I enjoy.....Mages and Power suits are the most common....My probability manipulator fits here as well.....

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I tend to do JoaT characters fairly often simply because I tend to value flexibility more than power. I'd much rather spend (grabbing random numbers out of midair) 100 points on a 60 pt Multipower with 40 points of slots than a simple 100 pt. Energy Blast. Few GMs will let me have a combat-changeable VPP, not because I slow the game down or get extremely abusive with it, but just because I tend to be that devious and cunning.

 

For example, I once bought a Fully Indirect Ego Attack for a mentalist. Everybody asked me why, since they go through barriers/are line of sight/can't be dodged/etc etc. I just smiled. About four games later, we ran into a colossally stupid brick (not Grond, but about as smart). I used my Fully Indirect Ego Attack to make it look like their mentalist had blasted him, not me ... and he reacted appropriately.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

There are a few possible reasons for that. First' date=' the favorite power armored characters are JOATMON types, so this becomes the default in games. [/quote']

 

 

Good points all. Thinking of the original archtype - Iron Man - Not as strong as Thor, not as good a fighter as Cap, not as good an energy projector as Whichever one they have on the team that week...

[GAZZA]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

For example' date=' I once bought a Fully Indirect Ego Attack for a mentalist. Everybody asked me why, since they go through barriers/are line of sight/can't be dodged/etc etc. I just smiled. About four games later, we ran into a colossally stupid brick (not Grond, but about as smart). I used my Fully Indirect Ego Attack to make it look like their mentalist had blasted him, not me ... and he reacted appropriately. [/quote']

 

Just an aside: that doesn't actually work for two reasons:

• It's invisible anyway - do you normally rule that you feel what side of your brain just got bashed when you're Ego Attacked? If not, what does Indirect even change? You still get blasted by something that you didn't see, and you still know who did it, since...
  
• Indirect specifically can't hide who it comes from.

I suppose you could rule that it worked because the guy was stupid, but I'm not at all certain Indirect helps (if you can't normally tell who used the attack - which by normal rules you can! - then he would be as likely to assume the only guy who he knew could do that [their mentalist] had attacked him whether or not it was indirect).

 

You want something like Images vs Mental Senses or something.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Just an aside: that doesn't actually work for two reasons:

• It's invisible anyway - do you normally rule that you feel what side of your brain just got bashed when you're Ego Attacked? If not, what does Indirect even change? You still get blasted by something that you didn't see, and you still know who did it, since...
  
• Indirect specifically can't hide who it comes from.

I suppose you could rule that it worked because the guy was stupid, but I'm not at all certain Indirect helps (if you can't normally tell who used the attack - which by normal rules you can! - then he would be as likely to assume the only guy who he knew could do that [their mentalist] had attacked him whether or not it was indirect).

 

You want something like Images vs Mental Senses or something.

 

Interesting. I believe the target of a mental power always knows the source of the attack (5ER 119) unless it is bought Invisible to the mental sense group, even if the target does not have mental awareness. I think the Shape Shift power (mental sense group) with the Imitation adder (5ER 217) would do the trick though.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Just an aside: that doesn't actually work for two reasons:

• It's invisible anyway - do you normally rule that you feel what side of your brain just got bashed when you're Ego Attacked? If not, what does Indirect even change? You still get blasted by something that you didn't see, and you still know who did it, since...
  
• Indirect specifically can't hide who it comes from.

I suppose you could rule that it worked because the guy was stupid, but I'm not at all certain Indirect helps (if you can't normally tell who used the attack - which by normal rules you can! - then he would be as likely to assume the only guy who he knew could do that [their mentalist] had attacked him whether or not it was indirect).

 

You want something like Images vs Mental Senses or something.

 

The rules for Mental Powers specify that the target senses the direction that the attack came from, and since Indirect changes the directions attacks come from, there we go.

[Markdoc]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Second' date=' you see it more often on powered armor types, because they have the power limitation to help bear the brunt of the additional costs. Take the -1/4 OIHID or -1/2 OIF limitation off of those extra characteristics and powers and the character's cost jumps significantly. [/quote']

 

I think this is a big part of it. My last JoAT character (Kenji, from Mike Surbrook's Kazei5 game) was also a powersuit

 

But in addition to the points break, the concept also lends itself to that. It's easy to justify a technology-related character having a lot of useful powers (because you can always add another widget), and technology-user can easily justify a fair range of skillsets. And while with a bit of thought you can cram such powers into most concepts, many archetypes don't necessarily suggest that - If you want to add a wide range of powers/skills, it takes some thought.

 

That's perhaps why the other archetype which often ends up as a JoAT is the morph/shapeshifter type: it lends itself to the "whole lotta powers" concept.

 

cheers, Mark

[GAZZA]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

The rules for Mental Powers specify that the target senses the direction that the attack came from' date=' and since Indirect changes the directions attacks come from, there we go. [/quote']

Hmm, according to 5ER pp119, the target can sense the source of the attack (it doesn't mention direction).

 

Not that I'm suggesting what you did wasn't a cool effect - it most certainly was - it's just that I don't think Indirect is the right way to buy it (I suggested Images, but I think DocSamson's ShapeShift suggestion is a better idea).

[Outsider]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

Having lots of defenses but piddly attacks means (in City of Heroes terms) you can't hold aggro, so the bad guys ignore you and beat up the high-attack low-defense characters. Now you're stuck in a purely reactive mode, and that stinks.

 

Which is how it would work, realistically. Kill the naked guy in the open with the machinegun first, then worry about the joker behind a wall wearing a full kevlar suit & carrying a .38 snubby.

[Vondy]

Re: Who plays: Jack of all trades, master of none

 

I frequently play characters who aren't the master of any of the normative archetypes for a given genre, but never one who doesn't have some unique shtick of their own. More often than not the thing the character excels at is social (presence, contacts, status, etc) or background skill based (I'm a background skill hound). On the other hand, sometimes I just feel like playing a pro-from-dover in a given category, albeit a PFD with a personality and back-story.