Its practically blasphemy 350 point Fantasy

[Ndreare]

Hello I have been getting ready to run a 350 point fantasy game were the players all play the roles of the top thousand or so people on the planet, demi-gods, Arch Wizards and Dukes,

 

The game uses all the standard “Super Heroic†combat and the “Heroic†rules for advancement and spoils. So far the players are excited and I am excited.

 

 

Has any one else here started a 350 game as Fantasy? If so what did you do in your game, my theme is that the players are all members of the same court and they have roles to play out as the try to defend their people and advance the state. (We have a Knight Martial, a Life Wizard, and a Middle Nobility.)

[Killer Shrike]

Real quick -- I have to get ready for todays game --

 

Ive run Fantasy up and down the point scale. Ive started Fantasy games at 500 points before for a campaign of world-class characters on an epic adventure, and of course at much lower points, and everything in between.

 

As Ive pointed out before on many other threads, its not the points of the characters that really matters, its the points of everyone else.

 

SO if your characters at 350 are at the very outer edge of points for the campaign, they are going to be very powerful. If at 350 they are average for the campaign they are going to seem average, and if at 350 they are below average for the campaign they are going to seem below average.

 

Determine what the point levels of the opposition are going to look like and determine how common adventurers are and where they point out on average, and that will give a very clear indication of how "powerful" 350 points really is in comparison to the rest of the world.

 

Look at Champions for an example. Most opponents are at least 350 points, and range up to 1500, with a few in the 2000+ point range. Most other heros are in the 350 range. Most normals are far below that, but the heros still come off as 'average supers'. They are very powerful compared to the unwashed masses of humanity, but when compared to the NPCs that are thier opposition and peers they arent anything special.

 

On the other hand if thier opposition ranged between 150 and 350, with the average being around 200, then they would seem really powerful, with only the 'big baddys' being on par with them.

 

Its all a matter of scale and relative point values. I could let my players start off as 1000 point characters, but if all of thier opponents were at least 5000 points, they would seem as weak as 150 point characters vs 500 point characters.

[Guest zarglif69]

but... 350 points is at the superheroic level... a thief wouldn't have to rely on subtlety and stealth, 'cause he knows he has nothing to fear... a warrior would have no need for armor or a sword, because he's practically invincible... I mean, what are your characters doing? fighting Gods?

[lemming]

Originally posted by zarglif69

but... 350 points is at the superheroic level... a thief wouldn't have to rely on subtlety and stealth, 'cause he knows he has nothing to fear... a warrior would have no need for armor or a sword, because he's practically invincible... I mean, what are your characters doing? fighting Gods?

Possibly. He did say the PCs were in the top ranks.

 

I doubt they'll be set on by wharf rats.

 

I played in a FH game that started at 75+50 and that campaign ran for many years. My character was 370+ near the end. The group was balanced for what we faced. We were vikings and we did wind up getting slaughtered due to a few bad rolls. The GM just transferred the game to Valhalla.

 

Though I do remember we had one game when we were still alive where we raided a town. The GM did want to show that we were top line fighters. I think the players had groused we had been fighting some pretty tough opponents (demonic beasties or something) and so when we hit this town, we went through like a hot knife through butter.

[Enforcer84]

its all about the campaign. Also it depends on what levels you allow for active points. if they are in the 30-40 pt range your thief will have every skill in the book. if they are 60-75 point range your theif will have loads of "invisible" defenses (combat luck, skill levels, DR representing fantastic dodging) a high attack or two to represent his "sneak attacks" or weapon skills.

 

Any amount of points can be made to work for whatever genre you are looking at, some just make it easier to represent said genre. If you wanted a 500 pt street level campaign you could do it but to keep the feel your basic thung had better be 200-250 points....

[The Vaultdweler]

We are excited Ndreare.

 

At this point of waiting, I am at the point of exploding to reek havoc upon the world.Just hurry up and GM already.

[Ndreare]

Originally posted by zarglif69

but... 350 points is at the superheroic level... a thief wouldn't have to rely on subtlety and stealth, 'cause he knows he has nothing to fear... a warrior would have no need for armor or a sword, because he's practically invincible... I mean, what are your characters doing? fighting Gods?

 

Actualy YES they will be fighting demigods and things like that.

 

The players are all given 50 points in perks at the begginnning of the game also so they are now 400 total at play.

 

The game seems likeit will be so much fun the first game will be tomarro and I hope to get the players very excited and thinking hard.

 

The game will actualy be very political believe it or not. Ther mane goal will be to protect there Subject from invaders and maintane hold of their lands

[Le Schtroumpf]

Lord of the Rings. Do you really think Legolas is built on less than 250?

[Ndreare]

If he is then that is one skilled rules runner.

[Vondy]

Its all a matter of style.

 

I've run fairly gritty fantasy games with characters who came in at ~400 points and didn't need godlings or demons to give them a run for their money.

 

It depends on the types of challenges they're going to face. You'd be suprised at how a few skills bought up to 17- and martial maneuvers eat points.

 

Let alone those "all combat" skill levels and any special shtick the character's may have.

[Lupus]

Breadth vs depth

 

Naturally, two characters of quite different points values can be matches for each other in a fight. It's all about breadth vs depth. In a super-hero game, you get people with massive defences, massive attacks and very effective non-combat abilities. In a fantasy hero game, you're more likely to see a wide breadth of abilities. Ones that probably wouldn't make them stack up against superheroes, but allow them to handle a wide variety of threats and situations. Say, just about every skill in the book, and the stats to back them up. By careful GM control (setting campaign ceilings, for instance, or adapting a fairly harsh Rule of X), you can keep your PCs under control.

 

Of course, you have to do stuff like that in any game. Let no-one say that HERO is a game that's impossible to rort.

[Le Schtroumpf]

Had a player build a rather effective Dragon on 75 and 75 once. Had to ask the guy to make a different character after a few weeks of play and spent a while tightening up my character creation house rules. Not much fun when scenarios intended to challenge one PC will massacre the rest of the band.

[lensman]

Re: Its practically blasphemy 350 point Fantasy

 

Originally posted by Ndreare

Hello I have been getting ready to run a 350 point fantasy game were the players all play the roles of the top thousand or so people on the planet, demi-gods, Arch Wizards and Dukes,

 

The game uses all the standard “Super Heroic†combat and the “Heroic†rules for advancement and spoils. So far the players are excited and I am excited.

 

 

Has any one else here started a 350 game as Fantasy? If so what did you do in your game, my theme is that the players are all members of the same court and they have roles to play out as the try to defend their people and advance the state. (We have a Knight Martial, a Life Wizard, and a Middle NoIbility.)

 

I am on the cusp of running a campaign set in the Broken Kinngdomssetting.

Lots of NPCs to make and sanbagging a little so I can start after Fantasy HERO is published

 

Here is a NPC who has a little color but is not a member of the Aristocracy .

 

Jhondar Hillclift

 

Player:

 

Val	Char	Cost
13	STR	3
15	DEX	15
13	CON	6
15	BODY	10
14	INT	4
18	EGO	16
25	PRE	0
16	COM	3
6	PD	3
4	ED	1
4	SPD	15
10	REC	8
40	END	7
45	STUN	16

7" RUN22" SWIM03" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 109

 

Cost	Power	END
5	Broad Weapon Training: +10 STR, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (15 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Calculating STR min (-1), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4)
5	Increased Arc Of Perception (240-Degree) (Sight Group)
11	Perceptive: Enhanced Perception (+3 to PER Rolls for All Sense Groups; Increased Arc of Perception: 240-Degree)
8	Forest Awareness: Enhanced Perception (+3 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group; Analyze, Discriminatory) (16 Active Points); Limited Power Only vrs. Forest Concealment Modifiers (-1)
8	Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group And Normal Hearing), Discriminatory, Transmit, x2 Range (57 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Fixed Perception Point (-1), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Limited Power Only in Forests (-1), Requires A Analyze Roll (-1/2), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)	6
7	Guarded Self Relience: +15 PRE (15 Active Points); Limited Power Only for PRE defense (-1)

Powers Cost: 44

 

Cost	Martial Arts Maneuver
5	Takeaway: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab Weapon, +20 STR to take weapon away
4	Shove: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +25 STR to Shove
5	Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +2d6 +v/5; FMove
4	Martial Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +25 STR vs. Grabs
4	Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
4	Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike
4	Counterstrike: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike, Must Follow Block
8	+2 HTH Damage Class(es)

Martial Arts Cost: 38

 

Cost	Skill
0	Acting 8-
0	Bribery 8-
0	Climbing 8-
0	Conversation 8-
0	Deduction 8-
0	Shadowing 8-
0	PS: Messanger 8-
0	CuK: Calabrain (Custom Adder) 14-
0	AK: Calabria 8-
0	Language: Calabrian (idiomatic; Custom Adder, literate)
5	Trading 15-
4	AK: City: Benitzia 13-
7	+3 with a group of similar Skills (15 Active Points); Limited Power Only in Forest Terrain (-1)
5	Concealment 13-
5	Stealth 13-
5	Survival (Marine Surface, Mountain, Temperate/Subtropical Coasts, Temperate/Subtropical Forests, Temperate/Subtropical Plains) 12-
4	KS: Calabrian Forests 13-
4	Animal Handler (Birds) 15-
3	Combat Piloting 12-
1	TF: Large Wind-Powered Boats
0	TF: Custom Adder, Large Rowed Boats, Small Rowed Boats, Small Wind-Powered Boats
5	Riding 13-
0	TF: Equines
3	Analyze: Tactical Skills 12-
4	PS: Military Officer 13-
9	Teamwork 15-
7	Tactics 14-
3	KS: Ambush tactics 12-
3	+2 vs. specific OCV modifier on a single attack
9	+3 with any three maneuvers or a tight group of attacks
10	+2 with HTH Combat
2	WF: Common Melee Weapons
1	WF: Thrown Knives, Axes, and Darts, Thrown Rocks
1	WF: Wheellocks

Skills Cost: 100

 

Cost	Perk
5	Money: Well Off
15	Vehicles & Bases (75 Base, 0 Disad)
1	Reputation (A large group; 8-) +1/+1d6
5	Contact: the Citizenry of Benitzia 14-
3	Access: Los Vegos, Prison Island of Benitzia
15	Follower (75 Base, 75 Disad)
1	Favor
21	Contact (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has: extremely useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact), Organization Contact (+2) (21 Active Points) 8-

Perks Cost: 66

 

Cost	Talent
3	Resistance vrs, Concea;ment

Talents Cost: 3

 

 

Total Character Cost: 360

 

Val	Disadvantages
0	Normal Characteristic Maxima
15	Psychological Limitation: Blind to the Gu8ile of Women: (Very Common; Moderate)
15	Psychological Limitation: Consumed by Love of Baroness Du Changlion: (Common; Strong)
15	Social Limitation: Calabrain Sense of Drama (Frequently; Major)
15	Social Limitation: Calabrain Sense of Independence (Frequently; Major)
15	DNPC: Vicare de Avesque, Understudy to Master Thespian DuCarte: 11- (Normal)
20	Hunted: the Society of Quilled Mace: 11- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; Limited Geographical Area)
20	Hunted: Baroness Du Changlion: 14- (Less Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence)
10	Distinctive Features: Always Leads, Takes charge, Organizes: (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

Disadvantage Points: 125

 

Base Points: 150

Experience Required: 85

Total Experience Available: 85

Experience Unspent: 0

 

Blast this incpmlete ...

 

The Follower is a large Hooded Forest Owl

the Vehicle is 3 shares in a trade vessel called the Storm Breaker.

 

Below find the HDC

[Killer Shrike]

Interesting character; quick ?: Is there really a place called Los Vegos in the Broken Kingdoms setting?

[lensman]

Once FH is out, I plan to start a Character posting thread like the one found in Champions

[lensman]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Interesting character; quick ?: Is there really a place called Los Vegos in the Broken Kingdoms setting?

 

I confess that is something I added.

Lifted it from 7 Seas.

 

Quick? Grrrr I big he!! NO

But it is the only stuff out there.

 

Thanks really wanted to do more but time and I reached 350 easy enoough

 

Some of the omissions make it look less polished, but thaty is what the hdc is for

[Killer Shrike]

Hehe. I hear theyve got great buffets in Los Vegos. And lots of dinner shows.

[johnflang]

I was in a fantasy game that started with 30+50 and we are now 350+ characters each. Due to campaign limits, we are still not challeneged by wharf rats, but we are no where able to fight gods. Our challenges are protecting a kingdom from enemies who use powful magic and monsters. In that the fights are challenging and can be fatal. But part of the time we are also investigating, maniuplating events to protect the kingdom.

 

Yes you can play 350 point characters in FH. The challenges will be different than starting characters. Of course that is true for any genre and game system.

[Lupus]

What can challenge high-point-value fantasy characters? In the bestiary, you have the basilisk, chimera, deadly ooze, demons (Shadow, succubus, lesser demon), dragons (lesser dragon, wyvern), elementals (air, earth, fire, water), golems (clay, metal, stone), gorgon, hydra, giant insects (scorpion, spider), kraken, lycanthropes (werebear, boar, rat, shark, tiger, wolf), rakshasa, roc, sea serpent, giant venomous snake, sphinx, treeman, undead (ghost, mummy, vampire, greater vampire), worm, giant (470 points)

 

These are all the creatures in the 'fantastic beasts' section of the Bestiary that are around the 350 point total, or more. There are plenty there - and they can be joined by others if you slap on the templates from chapter one. Even normal animals sometimes rank up into a couple hundred points. Put elemental templates on them, and you have serious threats. Since some of them are far more expensive than their actual effectiveness, the trick is to look at the combat values, attacks and defences of the creatures and make sure that either your PCs don't overwhelm them, regardless of point value, or that you beef them up so that the PCs are challenged appropriately.

 

You'll also have to decide what genre rules you'll be using: regardless of point value, this could still potentially be a heroic level game. So are you using knockback? Charging characters for equipment? allowing pushing to 10 points?

 

But yes, high point values are valid in a fantasy setting. It's not only D&D that can handle high power.

[AnotherSkip]

Also a great deal of challenge can be made by having smart NPC's ho play to their strengths....

 

nearly got trashed by 18, 50 point npc's with a 30 point mage.... an I was a 200 point character by then with 4+,160 point PC's.

 

pretty disgusting when they chomp us......

[Arthur]

Re: We are excited Ndreare.

 

Originally posted by The Vaultdweler

At this point of waiting, I am at the point of exploding to reek havoc upon the world.Just hurry up and GM already.

 

I try not to be a Spelling Nazi, but this one is just too amusing. "Reek Havoc". Sounds like The Spleen on a rampage.

[Shaddakim]

Another consideration is the difference between a character who started at 350 points and one who has earned XP to bring them up to 350 points (say, after starting at 200 points).

 

It has been my experience that, no matter how good a rules runner you are, a character that has been played up to 350 points will be a much more effective character.

[Lupus]

Re: Re: We are excited Ndreare.

 

Originally posted by Arthur

I try not to be a Spelling Nazi, but this one is just too amusing. "Reek Havoc". Sounds like The Spleen on a rampage.

At least he spelled 'havoc' right. I was on Marvel online games a while back, and everyone there insisted on using a 'k.'

[Ndreare]

Re: Re: We are excited Ndreare.

 

Originally posted by Arthur

I try not to be a Spelling Nazi, but this one is just too amusing. "Reek Havoc". Sounds like The Spleen on a rampage.

 

Of all the mistakes people make while spelling (including my self) you chose this one. (A correct spelling to notice.)

 

After all how else would you spell reek

[cutsleeve]

with a w

 

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww