[Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

[Killer Shrike]

Hi; I'm looking for good (accurate) WCA conversions for the HERO System, preferably 5th edition, but I'll take 4th as well.

 

Any one got some or know where I might find them?

[JmOz]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Well not sure how good they are, and I am sure you already knew about the sight but

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/

 

 

Hawkeye

Human Torch

Iron Man

Mocking Bird

Scarlet Witch

Spider Woman II

Tigra

Vision

Wasp

Wonder Man

 

Are all there under Avengers, The Thing can be found under the FF, again you will have to decide how good they are

[MitchellS]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

The site JmOz listed is probably your best bet for finding 4E version of the characters. Unfortunately of the 30 or so builds I have there only Ironman would fit the criteria of need for a WCA.

[Metaphysician]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

There's this page, but the writeups are laughably bad.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

I already checked out the Great Net Book of Heroes; sorry -- should have mentioned.

 

Just my opinion, but I find most of the writeups on GNBoH to be questionable to out right unusable.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

There's this page' date=' but the writeups are laughably bad.[/quote']

 

Hmm...thanks....I looked at a few of them, and other than the oddness of forcing all the characters to 250 points I didn't see anything terrible; in fact I was rather impressed that some of the character were able to be squeezed down that far and still be somewhat recognizable. What stands out as bad for you?

[Metaphysician]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

The very fact that they were compressed into artificially low point levels.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

The very fact that they were compressed into artificially low point levels.

 

Yes, that is very weird. However, on the other hand what I find interesting about if is if a player said something like "I want to play a guy like so-and-so", you could conceivably grab the 250 pt version from this guys site, give the player a hundred points to spread around to bring them up to 5e standards, change the name and call it a day.

[Metaphysician]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Only if the player doesn't want to actually play that character, but some horribly bastardized clone thats not capable of doing a tenth what the actual character can.

 

If the player wants to play a 350 point character loosely based on, oh, Thor, thats fine. . . but no one involved should mistake that this is only a very weak clone.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Only if the player doesn't want to actually play that character, but some horribly bastardized clone thats not capable of doing a tenth what the actual character can.

 

If the player wants to play a 350 point character loosely based on, oh, Thor, thats fine. . . but no one involved should mistake that this is only a very weak clone.

 

Thunderstrike, what?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Hmm...thanks....I looked at a few of them' date=' and other than the oddness of forcing all the characters to 250 points I didn't see anything terrible; in fact I was rather impressed that some of the character were able to be squeezed down that far and still be somewhat recognizable. What stands out as bad for you?[/quote']

 

To be fair, the original 250-point project, which Matt Ignash took over but didn't start, was intended to make versions of familiar comic-book characters that people could play in starting-level Champs games, when 250 was the standard.

 

If you scroll farther down the page you'll find lots of writeups at far higher point totals.

[Metaphysician]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Thunderstrike' date=' what? [/quote']

 

Thunderstrike wasn't that weak ( even if he thought he was ).

[Guest steamteck]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

I thought they were pretty good and stacked fairly well against each other. I actually prefer them to the monstrous write ups giving Thor a 125 strength for instance. Much more usable, playable versions.

[Metaphysician]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

But. . . not an accurate portrayal of Thor.

 

A proper Thor writeup won't look balanced next to, say, the Champions, because Thor *isn't* balanced next to the Champions. He's not really especially balanced next to the *Avengers*.

[Greywind]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Right up there with Superman, pre-Crisis, with his 250 points of STR...

[Enforcer84]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Michael (the 250pt project guy) briefly considered rewriting the project to 5th eds' 350 pt starting limit. I think he went insane shortly afterwards

[Mathew]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

The very fact that they were compressed into artificially low point levels.

 

Who is changing point values artfically?

 

I believe if you check the original characters, often times mine are MORE accurate than one of those 800+ point versions some people write. Look at The Thing. Is there any reason to make a version that can lift 3200 tons like this?

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Thing-sb.txt

 

Then he needs defenses to match his STR, so he ends up with 45 rED and rPD. He's artifically inflated so he can fight Grond and other high end Champions villians, but it's NOT accurate to the character. The Thing NEVER displayed anything like that kind of strength. A mere 59 STR is much more accurate.

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Thing-mi.txt

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Intriguing thread... Smacks a wee bit of munchkin-itis in spots, because the 'classic' Avengers - be they East Coast originals or West Coast 'second string' - were (for me) less about super-mega-abusive-builds than they were about characters. Sorry if that's a dirty word.

 

I remember USAgent's white-hot rage at the fools who 'outed' his secret ID and got his parents shot to bits in a drive-by. Why? 'Cause USAgent spoiled their chance at the big time.

USAgent then went all biblical on their butts... and I couldn't fault him.

 

When he segued into Force Works, he became more intriguing because he was conflicted, he wanted to do the right thing - but he had no firm idea or guideline on what 'right' was. Still, he stood by the (few) people who had earned his trust, and he made a difference. Not bad for a character who could not blow up incoming asteroids by looking mad at them...

[Greywind]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Who is changing point values artfically?

 

I believe if you check the original characters, often times mine are MORE accurate than one of those 800+ point versions some people write. Look at The Thing. Is there any reason to make a version that can lift 3200 tons like this?

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Thing-sb.txt

 

Then he needs defenses to match his STR, so he ends up with 45 rED and rPD. He's artifically inflated so he can fight Grond and other high end Champions villians, but it's NOT accurate to the character. The Thing NEVER displayed anything like that kind of strength. A mere 59 STR is much more accurate.

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Thing-mi.txt

That's certainly one opinion.

[Mathew]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

That's certainly one opinion.

It's more than an opinion that the Thing does NOT lift 3200 tons.

[Chimera 12]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Well, part of the problem is that 'real' comic book superheroes probably don't have anything like Hero-style character sheets lying on the author's desk for reference. Within certain rough guidelines -- and even those can be violated in pursuit of "a better story" --, their power level is always exactly what the plot demands. (Of course, the characters themselves may not know that. From their perspective, their overall performance is probably a bit more consistent on a day-to-day basis, but the everyday parts of their lives tend to get glossed over and so we most often see them when they're charged with adrenaline and quite possibly Pushing their powers beyond their normal limits.)

 

So in a way the Hero System, by modeling characters in rather more detail and with more consistency than we usually see in the comics, is itself at odds with the source material here. Any writeups of 'canon' characters are bound to be just as subjective as any other fan work because it's doubtful that even the characters' original creators put that much thought into every facet of their being. (Quick, what's Spider-Man's BODY? Hank Pym's exact Computer Programming skill? How many dice of damage should getting smacked with Mjolnir inflict, and should that be normal or killing? Whatever your answers may be, be prepared for somebody out there to violently disagree with you. )

[Mathew]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

My point though is that the majority of the 250 point writeups are within the realm of legitimate interpertation. They may not be on a power level people play at these days (thanks to power creap and munchkinism), but that's not their target.

 

As the 250 point project originally described, these are interpertations of the characters based often times on their appearances in early group comics. Wolverine isn't the how-everything, speak every language, been everywhere, done everything, combat god of later Wolverine comics. He's the sawed-off, pissed-off little runt with claws from his first couple years X-Men appearances.

 

You can ever write guys like Thor and Superman up, if if limit them to the powers and skills they had in their early appearances.

[Enforcer84]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

Ah really? Still the same old arguments?

We get it you like smaller caps. Congrats. Your opinion.

[JmOz]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

For every hood that gets the drop on spidey, there is a Firelord out there for him to beat

[Mathew]

Re: [Request] West Coast Avengers Write Ups

 

I do write higher point characters on occasion, but only when they call for it, not just to keep pace with the power creep. Big points works for cosmic campaigns or overpowered supervillians. For instance I wrote a 700 point Graviton and a 645 point Absorbing Man.

 

For my personal use, I see no season to give Captain America or Batman superhuman stats if you are tyring to adapt them. They're suppposed to be a peak NORMAL humans with lots of training and some gadgets. No reason for a 7 SPD, a 33 INT or a 26 DEX, as some people sometimes do:

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Batman-sb.txt

 

However, I've always felt that if 10 people adapt the same character into Champions, you'll probably end up getting 10 very different interpertations, and probably all 10 will be valid. I've always encouraged people who disagree with anything I write to write their own, submit it to the GNBORH, the Usenet or a message board. The more choice the merrier.

 

Personally I'd love it if someone started a 350 or 450 point project. I still write stuff in 4th edition at 250 points because I'm old and set in my ways, and it's what I enjoy. Please let's see the same characters written for 5th or 6th edition Champions at higher point levels!