shafti76 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I solved the problem with increasing the density of an object, but now I need to figure out how to decrease it. For example: the hero with a 10 Str could touch a car and make it weigh less to the point he could pick it up. Any suggestions??? I'm stumped for a "good" way to do it. Thanks a lot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Through mechanics or effects? Telekinesis, Touch Only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shafti76 Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Yea I thought of that, but it doesn't really changed the weight it just gives the hero a different way to lift it. Thanks though, I appreciate any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question I'd also agree with tK. If someone else lifts it, the tK is helping them. If it's taking KB, the tK has added to KB" by making it in effect flying (+1d6 KB"). Other constructs (UAO powers, transform, etc.,) get messier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableWyvern Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question TK: Only to counteract natural weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Hate to say it but Gliding ubo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maccabe Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Why not TRANSFORMATION ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Why not TRANSFORMATION ? That can generally solve many problems, if you have the points to spend. I wonder, would changing the weight only of the target be a Minor or a Major transform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Depends on the size and how much exercise/dieting is required... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabluey Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question I just started up a Champions mini-campaign where one of the characters has such a power. The player and I went back and forth on a lot of possibilities. What we finally settled on was a Transform. Basically it just makes things lighter, with the additional effect that it would increase knockback for things that are hit, and for other objects it would effectively reduce their weight to 0 for purposes of lifting, calculating throwing distance, and the like. We made it a Major Transform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Another option : Shrinking - 2 levels - ____(+1) Useable as Attack ____(+1 1/2) Increased Mass (6400 kg) ____(+1/2) Persistent ____(-2) Shrinks Mass ONLY, Provides no CV, Perception Modifiers, or any enhanced ability to fit in small spaces. Tack on Reduced END cost if you like, and maybe more limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question Another option : Shrinking - 2 levels - ____(+1) Useable as Attack ____(+1 1/2) Increased Mass (6400 kg) ____(+1/2) Persistent ____(-2) Shrinks Mass ONLY, Provides no CV, Perception Modifiers, or any enhanced ability to fit in small spaces. Tack on Reduced END cost if you like, and maybe more limitations. Aww. Beat me to it. This seems to be the only weight-affecting power in the toolbox. I'd agree with this way too. The -2 for the 'Shrink Mass Only' seems a little steep though, I'd go with -1 personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question What purpose does it serve? Is it mostly so that he could throw it? +50 STR: No Figureds, Only for being able to pick stuff up, Extra STR does not count towards Throwing Distance/Damage If you want to actually change the mass/weight of an object you are looking at some Density Decrease UBO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Re: New Density Question What purpose does it serve? Is it mostly so that he could throw it? +50 STR: No Figureds, Only for being able to pick stuff up, Extra STR does not count towards Throwing Distance/Damage If you want to actually change the mass/weight of an object you are looking at some Density Decrease UBO. Thought you'd beaten me to it. My thought went immediately to strength. Instead of +STR however I was thinking of a STR aid damage shield UBO - not for personal use. So anyone who touched the object the damage shield was surrounding would gain a STR Aid and thus be able to pick it up more easily. I did like the suggestion of shrinking - my first thought was invisible effects shrinking... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: New Density Question I Thought of STR AID also, but it had a few problems. Problem 1 : A standard car is 1600kg on the STR chart, meaning one has to have 30 STR to lift it. This means that our STR Aid would have to add 20 STR to a STR 10 person. 20 STR = 20 points of effect = 6D6 (avg rolled) or 7D6 (Std Effect) = 60 or 70 points of Aid. Now add Continuous (+1), Damage Shield (+1/2), and we're up to a whopping 150 to 175 active points. And this assumes that we're going to handwave the fact that centering a power on an inanimate object (like a car) requires UaA (+1), UbO (+1/4) only being allowed to give willing targets the use of a power. Problem 2 : The person who touches the car can lift it, but they can also drop it on the guy next to them. He then takes damage from being crushed under a 1600kg object, not a 100 kg one. Or he can lift it, but can't walk acrossed a delicate rope bridge that will only support 200kg, as he and the car together mass 1700kg. The STR Aid method doesnt actually reduce the car's mass unless we apply a vigorous handwave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: New Density Question Why would it need Damage Shield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: New Density Question Why would it need Damage Shield? Two reasons. 1) So it can effect any number of people that touch it, rather than a limited number of people. UbO normally can be used by only one target at a time, unless a +1/4 surcharge is paid to double the number, and repaid to redouble, etc. 2) Because if it didnt have DS, then one would be granting the target the ability to Aid people's STR if they chose to. Unfortunately, a car has no free will (KIT aside) and can't actually choose to use the power. Damage Shield overcomes this by shifting the decision to be Aided from the posessor of the power (the car) to the target (the person who touches it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: New Density Question I Thought of STR AID also' date=' but it had a few problems.[/quote'] Good points. I think I'm back at shrinking, invisible power effects or simply transform. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shafti76 Posted June 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: New Density Question I think I'm going to go with transform where each body affected would lower the weight as a % I.E. if it has 10 body each body represents 10% of the weight. Now the question I have to answer is major or minor transform? Thanks for all the help, feel free to post more ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Re: New Density Question I'd call it minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: New Density Question I think I've circled back in my brain to TK, uncontrolled, continuous only to negate/reduce weight of object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: New Density Question I know that we bummed up a Density Decrease power back in the BBB days. I believe, and I'm not positive but almost fairly kind of certain that there is a DH article about Density Adjustment. This article went into how to alter the DI power to allow Increases or Decreases. Density Decrease is actually the power that you are looking for. If it's not in a DH someplace, I'll see if I can find my old notes (haven't used DD in a while). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Re: New Density Question Make it a Change Environment with long lasting effects. I'd rule it 3 pts to give an object or person +1" knockback resistance penalty (matching other 3 pt abilities in usefulness). And you could define each +1" KB resistance as having the special effect of halving the target's mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: New Density Question I think I'm going to go with transform where each body affected would lower the weight as a % I.E. if it has 10 body each body represents 10% of the weight. Now the question I have to answer is major or minor transform? Thanks for all the help' date=' feel free to post more ideas.[/quote'] I'd say if you're reducing the density by up to half, it's Cosmetic - after all, you're only reducing the needed STR by 5. If you're reducing the desity down to some significan level*, it's Minor. If it reduces the density down to "negligible", then it's Major. *I'm not sure what this level should be. Off-hand, I'd say it should be somewhere between 1/16 (1600 kg car becomes 100 kg) and 1/125 (1600 kg car becomes 13 kg), in other words, a reduction of STR required between -20 and -35. Hmmm... maybe it should be even more than that. And this includes the assumption that the BODY and DEF of the object do not change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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