Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

[Jkeown]

... is no small undertaking. A player has recently asked to play a card player who uses a Trump-like deck to cast spells and do Amberish things. Amber being one of my many influences, maybe it's time to incorporate this concept into Caleon.

 

Roger had these cards, based upon the Tarot, called Greater Trump. With them, you could communicate, travel, and even bring distant folks to your location with a single card. Whole decks could be cast like tarot to foretell the future (though bit vague, the cards were always right), telling you were the folks in the deck related to the current problem.

 

Okay. 1 item, many functions: Multipower, right? I think each card is a separate item. They look a little like this:

Cost Power

5 Higher Arcana: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots Independent (-2), OAF (-1), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

0u 1) Communicate: Mind Link , Human class of minds, Person Pictured (5 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

1u 2) Call Ally: Summon 300-point Specific Person Pictured On Card (60 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

0u 3) Arcana Travel: Teleportation 1", MegaScale (1" = 100,000 km; +1 1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (5 Active Points); Independent (-2), Only To Specific Place Pictured (-1), OAF (-1), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

Total Powers Cost: 6

 

6 points for all that. Is each card 6 points, or are they just 1 point slots in the deck? And those 0's are bugging me too. Should Hero Designer be outputting 0 cost slots?

[ThothAmon]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

Minimum costs for a slot is wrong. I think it is 2 points, or 1 point? Slots need to be ultra to cover the fact that you can only do one thing at a time?

 

I'd suggest that OAF doesn't apply unless you need the whole deck - lose one card and the deck stops working.

 

Concentration may also need looking at, especialy with communication / movement powers.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

Couldn't use a cooler source.

[Jkeown]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

It occurs to me I'm reading too much into Roger's writing. The "Summoning" is actually, Teleport Usable by Other, isn't it?

[csyphrett]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

Yes the summoning is teleport other, but also you couldn't teleport someone if you weren't talking to them. Some aspects of the deck reached across shadow. That implies extradimensional movement.

CES

[Jkeown]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

I was thinking along those lines as well. That would be an seperate slot. wouldn't it? Mind Link, Teleport, Extradimensional Teleport, I believe that brings the cost per person in any given deck to 3. I'm very sleepy... so I'll do the real math later.

 

Now, would you allow a character to draw any person for 3 pts and add them to the deck, or just use those 3 slots to call and teleport anyone who they'd made a PS: Artist roll "against?" Sure you'd have to keep a list, but it didn't seem like a huge investment to make a trump, from, say, a sharpened spoon and a dirty wall. I think balance demands a point cost for each card.

[Markdoc]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

Math problems: the reserve (with the limitations listed) costs 14 points and each slot costs a minimum of 1.

 

Thus, the cost as listed should be 17 points.

 

I agree that the summon should be Teleport UbO, but otherwise, it's good to go.

 

Another possibility is to increase the concentration effect (and limitation and add in some extra time, but drop the independant. Independant suits the tarots as described in the Amber books, but that's because the tarots in circulation were made by Dworkin - through most of the books, the fact that there were a limited number of Tarots and people couldn't make their own was a major plot device. Your player, however might like to be able to make them him/herself - in which case, independant, while possible, can be a bit of a risk.

 

cheers, Mark

[Leohat]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

*Delurk*

 

I love Amber. I'm thinking about doing a FH game with Amber influences.

 

A couple of points regarding trumps. Some of these are pretty obvious but...

 

A) Trumps could be resisted by the receiving party and in some cases by external influences.

i) In the NPiA, Corwin could not be reached via Trump due to Amnesia. Oberon was able to block attempts to contact him. Brand was placed in a cell far enough away to not be reachable. Not sure how this would be represented in Hero system.

ii) I am not convinced that use of Trumps require concentration or at least extra concentration. NPiA mentions that the Trumps started to work just by touching them. Also how much concentration could have Blyes had when falling off Covir(sic).

iii) In the Merlyn Chronicles, the Trumps of Doom were definitely NOT drawn by Dworkin. The NPiA mentions that Dworkin taught Brand and Fiona (I think) how to draw Trumps.

iv) The Trumps were used several times to bring more than one person across. In one case a small army was brought across.

v) Other people with Trumps could 'listen in', such as the case with the Gerard vs. Corwin fistfight.

[mallet]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

I wouldn't use both teleport and teleport others, rather I'd have each card open a gateway to the person/place shown. Allowing more then one person to pass through at a time (since this happens in the books).

 

Also, with the gateway open you could possibly evesdrop on people on the otherside (maybe with an invisable power effect advantage added on?)

[Publius]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

But not all characters could do that eavesdropping thing, Caine and maybe a few others (Caine is the only one mentioned). I'd make that a separate power that he tacked onto the whole thing.

 

No one has mentioned the ability to do a psyche attack through the Trump contact yet either. As Corwin's brother was able to do to him via Trump during the naval battle in the first book.

 

I decided to surrender the fleet and then transport myself to Amber and challenge Eric to a final duel. He'd be foolish to accept. But what the hell-I had nothing else left to do.

 

I turned to make my wishes known to my officers, and the power fell upon me, and I was stricken speechless.

 

I felt the contact and I finally managed to mutter "Who?" through clenched teeth. There was no reply, but a twisting thing bored slowly within my mind and I wrestled with it there.

 

After a time when he saw that I could not be broken without a long struggle, I heard Eric's voice upon the wind:

 

"How goes the world with thee, brother?" he inquired.

 

"Poorly," I said or thought, and he chuckled, though his voice seemed strained by the efforts of our striving.

 

"Too bad," be told me. "Had you come back and supported me, I would have done well by you. Now, of course, it is too late. Now, I will only rejoice when I have broken both you and Bleys."

 

I did not reply at once, but fought him with all the power I possessed. He withdrew slightly before it, but he succeeded in holding me where I stood.

 

If either of us dared divert his attention for an Instant, we could come into physical contact or one of us get the upper hand on the mental plane. I could see him now, clearly, in his chambers in the palace. Whichever of us made such a move, though, he would fall beneath the other's control.

 

So we glared at each other and struggled internally. Well, he had solved one of my problems, by attacking me first. He held my Trump in his left hand and his brows were furrowed. I sought for an edge, but couldn't find one. People were talking to me but I couldn't hear their words as I stood there backed against the rail.

 

What time was it?

 

All sense of time had departed since the beginning of the struggle. Could two hours have passed? Was that it? I couldn't be sure.

 

"I feel your troubled thought," said Eric. "Yes, I am coordinated with Caine. He contacted me after your parley. I can hold you thus while your fleet is demolished around you and sent down to Rebma to rot. The fishes will eat your men."

 

"Wait," I said. "They are guiltless. Bleys and I have misled them, and they think we are in the right. Their deaths would serve no purpose. I was preparing to surrender the fleet."

 

"Then you should not have taken so long," he replied, "for now it is too late. I cannot call Caine to countermand my orders, without releasing you, and the moment I release you I will fall beneath your mental domination or suffer physical assault. Our minds are too proximate."

 

"Supposing I give you my word that I won't do this thing?"

Then later in the same section...

 

"Until then," I said, "try this!" And I hit him with everything I had, boring into his mind, hurting him with my hatred. I felt his pain and it drove me harder. For all the years of exile I'd spent, I lashed at him, seeking at least this payment. For his putting me through the plague, I beat at the barriers of his sanity, seeking this vengeance. For the auto accident, for which I knew he had been responsible, I struck at him, seeking some measure of anguish in return for my hurt.

 

His control began to slip and my frenzy increased. I bore down upon him and his hold upon me began to slacken.

 

Finally, "You devil!" he cried, and moved his band to cover the card that he held.

 

The contact was broken, and I stood there shaking.

 

I had done it. I had bested him in a contest of wills. No longer would I fear my tyrant brother in any form of single combat. I was stronger than he.

How would you handle their invulnerability? Trumps (as opposed to Trump Sketches) were nigh invulnerable...

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

*Delurk*

Welcome to posting on the Hero Boards! Have some rep!

 

i) In the NPiA' date=' Corwin could not be reached via Trump due to Amnesia. Oberon was able to block attempts to contact him. Brand was placed in a cell far enough away to not be reachable. Not sure how this would be represented in Hero system.[/quote']Limitation: Can Be Interfered With (-1/4 or possibly -0).

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

How would you handle their invulnerability? Trumps (as opposed to Trump Sketches) were nigh invulnerable...

Unbreakable Focus (broken by being smeared with Amber blood, perhaps?).

[Curufea]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

The Multiverse-

Base, duplication, variable special effects (for Shadows)

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

[quote=SCUBA Hero;

Limitation: Can Be Interfered With (-1/4 or possibly -0).

 

this Sounds like a Job For RESTRAINABLE(-1/4)!!!!

a known series of actions that can be taken to reduce the effectiveness (amnesia, Farcells, mental Defense, etc...)

 

then ppl can come up with interesting ways to block the trumps but not worry about doing the Right thing.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ripping off the Late Roger Zelazny...

 

Here is a list of Trump abilities built without any framework:

 

List: Zelazny's Trumps, all slots OAF (-1), Requires An EGO Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; current value based on EGO 15; -1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Requires Light To Use (-1/4) - END=

19 1) Trump View of Person or Place: Clairsentience (Sight, Mystic And Hearing Groups), Analyze, Discriminatory, Perceive into a single other dimension, Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (96 Active Points); Fixed Perception Point (The specific person or place drawn; -1), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense [any other Sense] (-1/4) - END=7

10 2) Trump Contact: Polite: Mind Link , One Specific Mind, Any dimension, No LOS Needed, Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

25 3) Trump Contact: Forced: Mind Scan 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points) (Human class of minds), +5 ECV, Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1) (120 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only vs. targets drawn on trump; -1) - END=12

27 4) Trump Attack: Ego Attack 4d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), Continuous (+1) (130 Active Points); Eye Contact Required (Constant Power requires eye contact throughout use; via Trump Contact (Polite or Forced); -1) - END=6

13 5) Trump Travel: Teleportation 1", No Relative Velocity, Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), Continuous (Gate; +1), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (63 Active Points); Can Only Teleport To (or willing target from) Floating or Fixed Locations (-1/2), Linked (Trump View of Person or Place; -1/2) - END=6

16 6) Trumps of various people: Teleportation: Floating Fixed Location (12 Locations) (60 Active Points) - END=0

13 7) Trumps of various places: Teleportation: Fixed Location (50 Locations) (50 Active Points) - END=0

1 8) Trump Sketch: Teleportation: Floating Fixed Location (1 Locations) (5 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, -2), Independent (The sketch is not permanent and not necessarily on a card; -2) - END=0

 

Almost forgot:

 

45 9) Trump Telepathy: (Total: 190 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Invisible to Mental Group, Hide effects of Power (+1/2) for up to 120 Active Points of Trump Contact: Forced (90 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4) (Real Cost: 51) plus Telepathy 10d6 (Human class of minds), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +1) (100 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Linked (Trump Contact: Forced; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4) (Real Cost: 23) - END=19