Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I agree with Nexus.

 

Adding the NND Advantage to TK will not negate a targets ability to break a grab.

 

As I stated before, building Flight with UAA (and an appropriate defense other than STR) as well as Range and/or AOE will accomplish the exact effect you are describing without adding houserules that violate RAW.

 

But its your game.

The only rule that matters is having fun.

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

The best anti-brick trick is a well-played martial artist.

 

Matial throw, dodge, and block on a well-made and well-played martial artist will beat many bricks every time. And when the 'big' brick ("He doesn't actually have growth, he's just 6'10" tall...) picks up a car to smash you with, dive for cover between his legs! And give him a kick where it'll do the most good next phase!

[Doc Samson]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I play Bricks almost exclusively. As much as I try, it's hard (or impossible) in most point limited games to cover all the bases. Here are some things my GMs have used aginst me with good effect. I'll post some more if I think of them.

 

- STR Suppress: Even with max APs in Power Defense (30 pts. for Defense Powers in our 350 pt. games), a 12d6 Suppress (60 APs for attack Powers in our 350 pt. games) will usually zero out a Brick's STR more quickly than a 12d6 attack will knock him or her out (due to Recoveries, other Defense Powers like Damage Reduction, Missile Deflection, ect.), not to mention that each successful attack shaves dice off the Brick's damage.

 

- Sense Affecting Powers: I always try to take a second targeting sense, but a multi-sense Flash, Darkness, or Invisibility can really slow a Brick down. 1/2 OCV means the Bricks is not going to wield that massive STR nearly as accurately and 1/2 DCV suddenly makes high damage Move Throughs and Places Shots (if allowed) worthwhile.

 

- Change Environment: Though some players love "Quick Bricks" with their higher than average (for a Brick) DEX and SPD, I think this type of Brick is on the rare side as DEX and SPD draw points away from defenses. As such, many Bricks are susceptible to falling down when DEX Rolls are required. A Change Evironment (like the sheet of ice example in the book) can be very frustrating for the average Brick.

[Sidume]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Let me get this right.

 

I appreciate the responses, but I was thinking more like how to defeat a brick, rather than just frustrate or stalemate it.

 

So, you want to figure out how to poke a hole in the character's schtick? What's the point in having them make a character with a schtick if you're not going to let them play it out. The whole point of bricks is "tough to take down."

 

And it makes a huge difference in the kind of brick you want to take down. Speedster bricks do not like martial throws. Big dumb bricks tend to be molding clay for a skilled mentalist. Heroic bricks can be neutralized for whole storylines when someone slaps an illusion of somebody tough and dangerous on an innocent bystander (who gets pulverized by the 75 STR brick doing a flying move through). "Death traps" might not mean much to the brick, but it might be a huge deal for his comrades, DNPC's, or next-door-neighbor. The disregard for others is part of what makes plain vanilla villian bricks such a pain to fight.

 

The brick schtick is "physically, you can't hurt me." While this isn't impossible to do, it's often not worth the trouble. The real villians don't try to out muscle the brick.

 

Look at Black Manta. Can he beat Aquaman in a fight? Rarely. But he's top of the list of Aquaman's most hated villians. Why? He killed his kid. Why buy a 90 point attack to maybe tickle the brick when 1 1d6 RKA pistol can scar him/her for life if you just aim it the right place?

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

One of the nastiest tricks pulled on my old brick Hardcase was Mental Illusions - bad guy made me think the person we were rescuing was him, I didn't know until I had already started pummelling

 

25 Point Normals do not take 22d6 Move Throughs very well...

[Comic]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Part of the problem with the brick archetype is that their outer invulnerability often reflects their inner isolation.

 

The villainous ones usually have very little they care about, and their reaction to threats towards what they hold precious is to attack all the more savagely.

 

If you're going to try to hurt a villainous brick type 'where they live', then you have to be ready to hurt them for real, and quickly, and lastingly, soon thereafter.

 

Bricks aren't immune, in a well-balance game. Hit hard enough, long enough, they will go down.

 

Frustrating their abilities while you're hitting them is a necessary part of the formula. Keep them from effectively fleeing, effectively avoiding damage, effectively attacking. Mental Illusions to confuse their escape routes; Change Environment, tripping, or otherwise reducing their DCV and wasting their defensive actions and Recovery opportunities; whatever it takes to not be hurt by their big attacks.

 

The best anti-brick trick is to have the range of powers to be able to employ advantageous tactics and strategies regardless of the brick you face.

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Which I just found out my current character doesn't have...

[Sidume]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

The best anti-brick trick is to have the range of powers to be able to employ advantageous tactics and strategies regardless of the brick you face.

 

Which I just found out my current character doesn't have...

 

Sounds like a place to spend some experience points . . .

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I was planning on spending XP on some character development stuff - Wealth (went from Chicago Paranomal Crime Division to 'Chief of Secuirty' for the Stark Enterprises clone in our game), noncombat skills, etc.

 

Got pinned down by a brick while trying to defend injured PRIMUS agents. The SOB had a higher DEX (by 1! - and I have a 20 in a pretty low-powered PC game) and the GM doesn't allow Hipshot and Hurry anymore. So I spent two turns "Pushing the Red Line" on my FF to fend him off just a little longer...

 

My role in the fight ended when 13d6 came up 7x6, 2x5, 3x4, 1x2. WAY out and knocked back into a lake. If no one get to him soon, Red Line is going to have a permanent place in Davey Jone's Locker...

 

So if he survives, I think raw DEX and/or Lightning Reflexes is the way to go. When you get outDEXed by a brick...

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

When you get outDEXed by a brick...

Bricks being relatively clumsy isn't really even a genre convention unless you're comparing them to Spider-Man or Captain America, but in Champions a martial artist who isn't faster and/or more agile than an opposing brick is in serious trouble. Under those conditions, the brick's higher damage potential and tougher defenses almost guarantee him victory. It's really a balance issue more than anything else.

 

In our Champions campaign, our "clumsy" brick has a 23 DEX and we have a novice EB with an 18 DEX.

 

Hopefully you'll survive. Raw DEX is always nice, but have you considered an emergency purchase of Life Support: Self Contained Breathing?

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

18 DEX isn't all that clumsy, it's 'professional dancer/athelte' level. 21 DEX is olympic athlete. I was trying to keep my guy in the 'normal, if just barely' range of characteristics. So much for that idea.

 

And life support is totally out of concept. Even more so with his FF down... Might be an idea for a replacement character, though. Some type of intelligent undead.

 

With Afterlife Support.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

18 DEX isn't all that clumsy' date=' it's 'professional dancer/athlete' level. 21 DEX is Olympic athlete. I was trying to keep my guy in the 'normal, if just barely' range of characteristics. So much for that idea. [/quote']Unfortunately, that approach to Characteristics only works in Champions if everyone else in the game shares it (including the GM). If Joe Brick Badguy starts beating your DEX, it's time to rethink how good an idea it is to be "normal, if just barely."

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Unfortunately' date=' that approach to Characteristics only works in Champions if everyone else in the game shares it (including the GM). If Joe Brick Badguy starts beating your DEX, it's time to rethink how good an idea it is to be "normal, if just barely."[/quote']

 

Oh, I've rethought it, all right. Now the fun part is getting the GM to allow it.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Oh' date=' I've rethought it, all right. Now the fun part is getting the GM to allow it. [/quote']Well, if your character drowns then I suppose that gives you the opportunity to build v2.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

20 isn't the absolute max for non-superhuman, especially in a superhero game. You think batman had 4 speed? No, he went a little beyond the 'normal' bar to factor in extreme training and fighting other supers. Unless you're playing heroic games don't be afraid to move a bit over 20. Even in heroic games, 20 isn't an absolute limit.

 

As for anti-brick tricks, anything that prevent melee engagements or bypasses normal defenses is a good idea. Even if the brick invested a bit in exotic defenses, chances are he didn't invest as much as his main defenses. If an attack doesn't work, change until something does work. Try to find a vulnerability. If you can keep your distance and keep changing attacks, something should work. If you're fighting a leaping brick, try to fight him indoors, where his movement is limited (and, if all else fails, you can drop a building on his head).

 

Edit: Any specific stats/character details would help with personalized strategies.

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

As for anti-brick tricks, anything that prevent melee engagements or bypasses normal defenses is a good idea. Even if the brick invested a bit in exotic defenses, chances are he didn't invest as much as his main defenses. If an attack doesn't work, change until something does work. Try to find a vulnerability. If you can keep your distance and keep changing attacks, something should work. If you're fighting a leaping brick, try to fight him indoors, where his movement is limited (and, if all else fails, you can drop a building on his head).

 

Edit: Any specific stats/character details would help with personalized strategies.

 

What screwed me was getting pinned down defending injured PRIMUS agents. I couldn't maneuver away without giving him a clean shot at them - and since he was swinging a BIG sword, I couldn't hope he would just rough them up; I had to assume he would kill them given a chance.

 

No, I take that back. What really screwed me was a generic '4 SPD' cap on starting characters (unless you had practically no defenses). So pretty much everyone has 4 SPD, and being outDEXed is a HUGE disadvantage. If the GM didn't come up with such neat stories, I'd be seriously considering finding a new one. I'm getting tired of playing punching bags...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Didn't bother to read the whole thing, but ... passing throw. I mean what, 5 points, and you're somewhere else and the target is on the ground??

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

No' date=' I take that back. What [i']really [/i]screwed me was a generic '4 SPD' cap on starting characters (unless you had practically no defenses). So pretty much everyone has 4 SPD, and being outDEXed is a HUGE disadvantage. If the GM didn't come up with such neat stories, I'd be seriously considering finding a new one. I'm getting tired of playing punching bags...

Another example of why I detest campaign caps on Characteristics. "Oh look, I've maxed out my STR and SPD. Might as well buy some more DEX."

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

What screwed me was getting pinned down defending injured PRIMUS agents. I couldn't maneuver away without giving him a clean shot at them - and since he was swinging a BIG sword, I couldn't hope he would just rough them up; I had to assume he would kill them given a chance.

 

No, I take that back. What really screwed me was a generic '4 SPD' cap on starting characters (unless you had practically no defenses). So pretty much everyone has 4 SPD, and being outDEXed is a HUGE disadvantage. If the GM didn't come up with such neat stories, I'd be seriously considering finding a new one. I'm getting tired of playing punching bags...

 

You could see if he responded to taunts.

Big sword->Make a crack about over-compensation. Odds are good that he'll try to cut you in two, depending on his personality.

See if any of your team mates have better anti-brick abilities if you can't stop one.

[Vulcan]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

You could see if he responded to taunts.

Big sword->Make a crack about over-compensation. Odds are good that he'll try to cut you in two, depending on his personality.

See if any of your team mates have better anti-brick abilities if you can't stop one.

 

Well, we were a wee bit outnumbered (9 to 6, plus they had some summoned creatures...). And one of them was Gravitar...

 

But I made good use of taunts ("You hit like a GIRL!") to keep the brick focused on me once he finally did some KB, to keep him from slaughtering the PRIMUS agents one more phase.

 

Then came the roll that put me into comaville (and a lake). We'll see next game if anyone can come save me... and if the PRIMUS agents survive too.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

8 other characters + Gravitar vs. 6 characters with a 4 SPD maximum sounds like a no-win situation to me regardless, unless AP caps and Defenses are way out of proportion to the SPD cap.