Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

[Psylint]

Just throwing it out there for your thoughts.

 

I've found Bricks, particularly since the move to 350, are much, much harder to deal with, without going entirely munchkin (Auto Fire 1 pip RKA's with multiple Armor Piercing and Penetrating advantages come to mind). So I thought I'd toss this out for more "legitimate" means of dealing with them.

 

Many thanks

[Hermit]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

One tip: Range is your friend. Sure, those #$#$ing leaps can cause them to close the gap fast, but there's no shame in taking even a half move of 3" back and then attacking if you think it will buy time. Yes, he can lob large objects at you (Which sucks for fliers) BUT he still gets penalties for it normally (Most cars aren't meant to be thrown, etc) and most bricks put their combat skill levels into HTH maneuvers.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Legsweep him, then go for a Pushed max-damage strike while he's at 1/2 DCV and OCV. Better yet, get the rest of the team to go for a coordinated attack to put him down for good.

[CorPse]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Legsweep him' date=' then go for a Pushed max-damage strike while he's at 1/2 DCV and OCV. Better yet, get the rest of the team to go for a coordinated attack to put him down for good.[/quote']

 

Not a bad setup, but it's good to try to wait him out if you can... hold and let him go first unless you're going to lose a phase. That way he can't block, etc.

 

And, is prone 1/2 DCV & OCV? I just thought it was 1/2 DCV?

[CorPse]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Two words:

Mental Paralysis.

 

Your average brick will chew on that for a long time...

 

...a long time where, with any luck, you're pulling haymakers from a safe distance.

[JmOz]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Two words:

Mental Paralysis.

 

Your average brick will chew on that for a long time...

 

...a long time where, with any luck, you're pulling haymakers from a safe distance.

 

I'm a big fan of my character's white noise arrow, basicaly a nice little AVLD vs Flash Defense Hearing

[CorPse]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I'm a big fan of my character's white noise arrow' date=' basicaly a nice little AVLD vs Flash Defense Hearing[/quote']

 

Good one... haymaker that bad boy...

 

I think in 4th Ed Primus agents used to have Batons that did a 4d6 Stun Drain with a huge return delay. Enough of those guys and you could really hurt a Brick. (Just make sure they have health insurance!)

[Flames]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Darkness ought to make it tough for a brick to find his target.

 

Is there such a thing as EGO-based TK?

[Psylint]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I'm a big fan of my character's white noise arrow' date=' basicaly a nice little AVLD vs Flash Defense Hearing[/quote']

 

Ooo! Nasty, need to add that to the sonic/vibrational post.

 

I like, but have never been able to use, Summon Holographic Copies, essentially summoned copies of the character with 1 pd, 1 ed, 1 body, so any attacks causes them to blip out of existence. Summon a couple dozen of those and watch the Brick waste energy smashing things that aren't there. .

 

Telekinesis with Martial Throw is kinda evil against bricks too.

 

And yes, you can by TK based on ego combat value, but it gets awfully expensive, and a fair number of bricks are prohibitively massive specifically to counter this threat.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Not a bad setup, but it's good to try to wait him out if you can... hold and let him go first unless you're going to lose a phase. That way he can't block, etc.

 

And, is prone 1/2 DCV & OCV? I just thought it was 1/2 DCV?

You're right; it's only half DCV. Why that is I can't imagine, but them's the rules.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

My favorite anti-brick trick: Jackhammers.

 

*ducks same*

 

Okay, seriously. Any brick worth his salt has shored up *most* of his weaknesses. Except for one.

 

Mentalists.

 

Yeah, if they nail you, you're toast. But "don't hit me, hit him!" is a good start (Ego +10 or so Mind Control at most), followed up by the easier "stand still," "hold this baseball" (using Mental Illusions to make the grenade look like said baseball), and the gold standard "don't hit me, hit your friend who's telling you to hit me! He's mean!"

 

Heck, with *some* bricks, you don't even need Mind Control. Ask AdamLeisemann about how Reinard (more or less) single-handedly took down both Ogre and Bulldozer some time.

[Hermit]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Yeah, don't bother with the ego attacks right out of the gate. Even if the brick doesn't have mental defense, his con is usually so high you have little chance of con-stunning him with it. Siccing him on his team mates (If he's with a team) or giving him something else to do is indeed a better way to start.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Out Brick them.

[Stone]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Mind control and mental illusions are probably the best for quickly removing the brick from the fight, however darkness can make them fustrated for a cheap cost too. Images is good alternative to mental illusion (making a child appear to be in danger, etc..). The mental paralysis is also very effective. I've found END drains to be effective since its a 2:1 payoff unless the brick has power defense. Granted you may have to hit them about three times, but it does not take too long to have them huffing and puffing. Strength drains can be good too. Reducing their primary ability tends to make them a bit nervous....again if they don't have power defense.

[JmOz]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Mind control and mental illusions are probably the best for quickly removing the brick from the fight' date=' however darkness can make them fustrated for a cheap cost too. Images is good alternative to mental illusion (making a child appear to be in danger, etc..). The mental paralysis is also very effective. I've found END drains to be effective since its a 2:1 payoff unless the brick has power defense. Granted you may have to hit them about three times, but it does not take too long to have them huffing and puffing. Strength drains can be good too. Reducing their primary ability tends to make them a bit nervous....again if they don't have power defense.[/quote']

 

One fun villain I made had Transfer (All Str/Toughness powers & Characteristics simultaniously +2) on a damage shield, everytime the brick hit he lost Str, Con, Body, PD, ED, Armor & Stun

 

Otherwise he was a demi brick, Str 30 ish, 20 ish defenses, some leaping I think

 

2 bricks on the team at the time, it was fun

[Kirby]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I've found Bricks' date=' particularly since the move to 350, are much, much harder to deal with, without going entirely munchkin (Auto Fire 1 pip RKA's with multiple Armor Piercing and Penetrating advantages come to mind). So I thought I'd toss this out for more "legitimate" means of dealing with them.[/quote']

Conventional:

Range attacks

Mind Control

EGO Blast

Coordinated attacks

STR Drains

CON Drains

Sight Flash Attacks

Takedowns (including legsweep & throws)

 

Unconventional:

Range attacks from directly above (doing a half-move up and firing, you'll be out of his superleap range quickly )

EGO Drain (prior to Mind Control)

Coordinated grabs (yes, grab the brick - one person per arm, others for neck or legs, if available - other team mates attack)

SPD Drain - think about it

Hearing Flash Attacks

Entangles - Force Wall surroundings (yes, most bricks will be able to break out of entangles easily, most will take out your Force Wall in one punch. Both waste the Brick's action and eventually for the Entangle, there will be that phase where the Brick's rolls (or casual roll) don't destroy the entangle and his DCV is even lower for called shots)

AoE attacks (less damage, but great for those who are using ranged attacks - also, may make the brick want to AoE attack you, meaning he'll make a half-move to a large object and half move to grab or half-move to throw; either way, he's not moving toward you and range penalties will be atrocious)

Damage Shield (particularly STR Drain)

Absorption of PD - "The more you hit me, the more powerful my EBs/Force Fields become"

Absorption Brick (such as Black Diamond from GRAB)

Haymaker, constantly (either he dodges or he gets hit by an additional +4d6 on those attacks; if he haymakers, dodge/move/throw/etc.)

Invisibility (defense, more a power than a trick)

Transform (arms into rubbery tentacles or hoses, brick into statue, etc.)

 

Well, that's all I can think of off-hand.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

You're right; it's only half DCV. Why that is I can't imagine' date=' but them's the rules.[/quote']

 

Because snipers go prone to make themselves more accurate, not less.

[OzMike]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Plenty of good stuff above - Kirby's list is pretty comprehensive.

 

One thing unmentioned: The Held Action.

 

Bricks are traditionally slower DEX and SPD-wise and a higher DEX/SPD character can really annoy them by holding and then acting whenever the brick tries to do anything.

 

Brick half moves and tries to grab, you half move back so Brick has to make a full move and can only move-by/through. Brick winds up a haymaker? You step out of the way or perform a grab-by to pull your teammate out of the way. Brick tries to hit you with an area effect? You dive for cover.

 

Having played many bricks I think that tactics like these from higher SPD and DEX characters suck, because Bricks are all about doing something and these tactics pretty much mean you can't. However, they are highly effective.

 

I should point out that a group of four 3 SPD agents functions more like a 12 SPD character if these types of tactics are deployed.

 

So there you have it - the held action.

 

And that's without going into coordinating and rapid attacks.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Bricks are easy to deal with.

 

Let them think they're winning. That'll keep them busy all day long.

 

Buy a character with a dex 20. That's a 7 DCV. Any 350 point brick will be able to hit a 7 dcv all day long.

 

Then buy 6 levels of DCV with invisible power effect. Let your brick go off on him. He'll think he's hitting, but he's not. Let him roll damage and even knockback. If you're feeling particularly misanthropic, buy the guy with a good acting roll to fool the brick into hitting him again and again.

 

Now that you have the brick's attention focussed on a target that can dance with him all day long, hose him with your choice of ranged damage.

 

Alternately, against most bricks you can create a mental image of a worthy brickish foe that they can tee off against until their teammates notice that he's haymakering the air. If you're especially cruel, you can have somebody put a light illusion of a dangerous foe in front of the brick.

 

In any case, the key to victory is to tie up the brick for as long as you can while you focus your offense on everyone else.

[casualplayer]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I like to manuever the fight to where there are repercussions if the brick starts tearing up the joint or swings and misses me. I try to get the bull to follow me into the china shop or I make sure that there is a schoolbus full of nuns or an electrical transformer behind me. If I have a nimble character and the opportunity is there I cozy up to one of the brick's teammates so if he swipes at me with a dumpster he may just paste his buddy also or instead of me.

[Hermit]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Plenty of good stuff above - Kirby's list is pretty comprehensive.

 

One thing unmentioned: The Held Action.

 

Bricks are traditionally slower DEX and SPD-wise and a higher DEX/SPD character can really annoy them by holding and then acting whenever the brick tries to do anything.

 

Brick half moves and tries to grab, you half move back so Brick has to make a full move and can only move-by/through. Brick winds up a haymaker? You step out of the way or perform a grab-by to pull your teammate out of the way. Brick tries to hit you with an area effect? You dive for cover.

 

Having played many bricks I think that tactics like these from higher SPD and DEX characters suck, because Bricks are all about doing something and these tactics pretty much mean you can't. However, they are highly effective.

 

I should point out that a group of four 3 SPD agents functions more like a 12 SPD character if these types of tactics are deployed.

 

So there you have it - the held action.

 

And that's without going into coordinating and rapid attacks.

 

Good point. This actually reminds me of some of the frustration I've had MY bricks face from those who use it. It is very effective

[Psylint]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

I appreciate the responses, but I was thinking more like how to defeat a brick, rather than just frustrate or stalemate it.

 

Sure my off the shelf martial artist is going the hold action and martial toss said brick to Manchester, but he's pretty much always coming back. Then again, so can the bricks with the ever popular shockwave attack... (EB AoE, no range, only on ground, double knockback, personal immunity), or toss a bus.

 

I get the frustration a brick might feel, but on the speedy side; what happens if I miss with martial throw? When that DC-cap attack lands; I"m at least stunned, maybe KO'ed or even dead. One mistake and squish. Or, imagine a brick with a Mind Control "C'mere!" compelling my martial artist to come into range and attack him (I couldn't argue that that would require a high effect roll). Then the brick can block, and achieve priority in the next shared phase. Well timed... squish. Don't forget the tar baby clinging damage shields, extra Casual Str, etc.

 

By contrast, if the brick misses the block... my monster strike (sweep offensive strike x 3) plinks off the armor, infinite stun, and superhuman constitution. That's bricks. Don't have a problem with that, but what I would like is a way to put the fear into bricks without having to resort to unabashed munchkinism (5d6 Body Drain comes to mind). I get that I have to be inventive, but alas nothing is coming to me.

 

I suppose, if a GM allowed it you could leverage martial arts, two-weapon fighting, sweep, multipower attacks and 2 HKAs to put out 6HKA's (assuming you hit with so much -OCV; at a net 4d6 each (2d6 HKA + STR + Maneuvers) you'd still have to win the Stun Lottery, but it's doable). But would you allow that much concentrated offense?

 

Maybe I'll just resort to my Head butt (EB AVLD Mental Defense, no range) and plink away.

 

Or start throwing acid (Active Cap drain PD, effect over time, delayed return 1 month)

 

Or hit 'em with the nerf bat (+20d6 HtoH attack, only against targets with 25 Def or greater).

 

Just don't know

[BNakagawa]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Oh, you actually want to take down the brick?

 

Stun lottery. (assuming you use the random stun multiplier)

 

You have a HtH mental attack (equivalent)? Sure, why not. Most bricks have zip mental defense. It'll take a while, but you'll probably be able to put levels in DCV.

 

You have a long lasting PD drain? That's kryptonite for most bricks. That's about as effective as throwing rust monsters at low level fighters, dude. As a matter of fact, that's exactly what you're doing. Negating (or reducing) their primary defense.

 

It's functionally the same as find weakness. Except that in this case, your friends (assuming they have physical attacks) can join in the fun.

 

Granted, I don't know the specs of the brick(s) you're having trouble with or your character's specs, but in general it sounds like you have all the tools you need.

[Mike W]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Favorite Anti-brick tricks include:

 

Martial Arts moves with a Fall element like Legsweep and Takedown.

 

Flash Attacks(can't hit what you can't see)

 

Environmental vicotries: Drop a building on him. Push him off a cliff, etc. I once "beat" Juggernaut in a friend's Marvel campaign(run on HERO) by grabbing him with TK, flying out over Lake Michigan and dropping him in. Sure, it didn't hurt him, but by the time Juggy walked back, the fight was over. (My guy had LOTS of move).

 

AVLD/NND attacks.

 

Make him mad, then dodge behind his friends. A guy I played with in college did this to Grond once. He taunted him then started ducking behind other bad guys(mostly agents). Grond ended up doing a LOT of our work for us before we got took him down(with a sneak attack haymaker from the power armored guy). You can also get extra damage on the brick by staying just out of range and making him try to move through you to hit. Of course, given the relative CVs the brick has a much better chance of hitting the big nasty wall behind you and damaging himself.

 

But really, trying to take out a brick one one one with a Martial Artist is almost impossible unless you have an NND attack like Nerve Strike and a LOT of time.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

 

Because snipers go prone to make themselves more accurate' date=' not less.[/quote']No, snipers go prone to hide and (in Hero terms) Brace and Set.

 

Your reasoning also doesn't explain why a character's OCV doesn't suffer in HtH when he's Prone. Can you move as fast on your back or stomach as on your feet?