Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

[CrosshairCollie]

I've been flipping through the Turakian Age setting book, and haven't come across an answer one way or the other ... are there firearms in TA, or no?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

none at all.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

none at all.

 

I assumed not, but you know what they say about assuming.

[Steve Long]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

Just to confirm: hell, no.

 

It's certainly possible to design a Fantasy setting with gunpowder; in fact I wouldn't mind trying that someday. But for a "typical" sort of Fantasy setting, IMO introducing gunpowder sort of spoils things.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

It's certainly possible to design a Fantasy setting with gunpowder; in fact I wouldn't mind trying that someday. But for a "typical" sort of Fantasy setting' date=' IMO introducing gunpowder sort of spoils things.[/quote']IIRC the old Tunnels and Trolls setting allowed for some rudimentary firearms -- muskets, breech-loaders, and such. They were supposed to be rare, and I rarely had or observed a character with one.

 

OTOH any published Fantasy Hero setting with firearms should probably limit them to stuff with the Inaccurate Limitation and a requirement of taking a full Turn to reload.

 

(Of course, all this is coming from a guy who's currently working on a setting where wizards stand side-by-side with guys toting laser weapons.)

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

The Fantasy Trip also hadgunpowder in it, though not as a major feature. One ingredient in gunpowder was dragon dung, which the dragons were unwilling to sell (knowing what it could be used for).

[Spence]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

IIRC the old Tunnels and Trolls setting allowed for some rudimentary firearms -- muskets, breech-loaders, and such. They were supposed to be rare, and I rarely had or observed a character with one.

 

 

It did. But T&T was a combat blender so they were only worth something to lower level PC's. After that the average Wizard or Warrior dished out a LOT more damage and they were meh....

 

At least when I used to play it in the '80's......

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

Of course just because the canon TA doesn't have gunpowder doesn't mean an individual GM can't add it into their own alternate version of the world.

 

I do believe that the Fantasy Hero rulebook has some rules for black powder weapons however. Although people such as Spence and Captain Obvious have posted rather more advanced versions.

 

Shamelessly self promoting though it may be I feel constrained to mention that I am running a Fantasy Hero Campaign involving gunpowder which is based on an alternate and somewhat magical Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries. So if you wanted to see black powder fantasy in action you could go here - http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59941 and look at the campaign write ups.

 

My players do fight differently due to their equipment, they don't tend to like getting stuck in and will pepper big nasty monsters with pistol balls before resorting to steel. On the other hand it means that even mooks can be threatening in reasonable groups, there's nothing like the term 'massed musket fire' to make Heroic PC's dive for cover.

[Spence]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

One point to bring up about it. When you design your BP rules, don't try to design reality. Rather decide how you want BP to affect the game and design them to fill that niche.

 

I never completed my BP rules, but I did not want firearms that would be as effective as modern arms. I wanted them to be extremely unreliable and slow. But to have a high enough potential that they would be seen as viable weapons. Much like the musket era. For armies with large formations a misfire rate of 5-15% and inaccuracy could be made up by massed volleys, and the slow reload time by multiple ranks or formations in support. Or basically history.

 

But for the party of adventurers they would be reduced to the opening volley and then to steel, unless they were in a position that could afford a limited approach to offset the reload time.

 

All in all, BP in a fantasy world is IMO a very cool idea. But it needs to fill a specific need in the game..

[Spence]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

 

I do believe that the Fantasy Hero rulebook has some rules for black powder weapons however. Although people such as Spence and Captain Obvious have posted rather more advanced versions.

 

 

Thanks for the kind words....

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

Of course in a fantastic setting the 'problems' of inaccuracy and long loading times can be solved by throwing points at it. Either by allowing PC's to take large amounts of penalty skill levels/loading skill levels or through enchanted weapons or spells.

 

One of my PC's has an enchanted rifle with 3 PSL's against range mods. More worryingly he is Speed 4 and now has enough loading skill to perform his loading in one phase i.e. 3 seconds. Almost Wuxia level of skill really but if I wanted a realistic game then I wouldn't have included the high magic, alchemy, revenants etc. It does make for an interesting challenge when designing monsters; I need something that will survive the sniper's attentions long enough to make it into combat but won't proceed to tear the party limb from limb without breaking a sweat.

 

This of course assumes that you regard these things as problems rather than features. Nothing wrong with weapons that are mostly useful for the initial volley or in large groups.

 

Oh and before you advise your players to take musketeers on with a bow you should remember that black powder weapons should count as armour piercing against old fashioned armour and that they should be more stunning than an arrow would be.

[Spence]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

Of course in a fantastic setting the 'problems' of inaccuracy and long loading times can be solved by throwing points at it. Either by allowing PC's to take large amounts of penalty skill levels/loading skill levels or through enchanted weapons or spells.

 

One of my PC's has an enchanted rifle with 3 PSL's against range mods. More worryingly he is Speed 4 and now has enough loading skill to perform his loading in one phase i.e. 3 seconds. Almost Wuxia level of skill really but if I wanted a realistic game then I wouldn't have included the high magic, alchemy, revenants etc. It does make for an interesting challenge when designing monsters; I need something that will survive the sniper's attentions long enough to make it into combat but won't proceed to tear the party limb from limb without breaking a sweat.

 

This of course assumes that you regard these things as problems rather than features. Nothing wrong with weapons that are mostly useful for the initial volley or in large groups.

 

Oh and before you advise your players to take musketeers on with a bow you should remember that black powder weapons should count as armour piercing against old fashioned armour and that they should be more stunning than an arrow would be.

 

My personal take was to make loading and aim/fire/hit separate skills. For loading I established a basic load time with the load skill reducing the amount of time. Then the "did I hit" skill.

 

I had done some research that turned me away from a blanket AP vs armor. Arrows and crossbow bolts were pretty nasty and armor piercing themselves. But as I worked on it I realized I was making damage WAY too complicated.

 

I liked my loading and hitting build. But the damage part is still too messy.

 

Then the project went on the wayside. I should take a look and see if I can finish it out.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

My lovingly hand-crafted, over 7 years in design Halliruch Campaign (where Thia Halmades first came to life, in fact) is a mid-level fantasy setting that uses firearms and very low-tech (but very powerful) giant robots. Not Escaflowne sized, but certainly enough to give one pause for thought. But that game is written as a 'transition' from one to the other and part of the conflict is with the wizard's guilds and the this and the that and a whole bunch of other plot based stuff.

 

But generally, in high fantasy they don't exist; it's too busy being all magic and swords and RAWR and so on. I say put guns in TA just to tick Steve off, but you know. That's me.

[Tonio]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

I once played a fantasy game (it might've been some edition of D&D, but I'm not sure) where you could use an arquebus (old black powder rifle) which had an open-ended damage score. You'd roll a 10 sided die, and if the result was 10, you rolled another one and added. If this second one was 10, you'd roll a third and added, etc. On the other hand, if you rolled a 1, you rolled again and added, rolling again and adding if you rolled 10s again, but applied this damage to yourself instead of your target. I think it was that way. Basically, the damage was generally high, could be much higher on rare occasions, and on rare occasions YOU got hurt (backfire) instead of your target. A very dangerous and unpredictable weapon. I think it captured the flavor properly. =)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

I once played a fantasy game (it might've been some edition of D&D' date=' but I'm not sure) where you could use an arquebus (old black powder rifle) which had an open-ended damage score. You'd roll a 10 sided die, and if the result was 10, you rolled another one and added. If this second one was 10, you'd roll a third and added, etc. On the other hand, if you rolled a 1, you rolled again and added, rolling again and adding if you rolled 10s again, but applied this damage to yourself instead of your target. I think it was that way. Basically, the damage was generally high, could be much higher on rare occasions, and on rare occasions YOU got hurt (backfire) instead of your target. A very dangerous and unpredictable weapon. I think it captured the flavor properly. =)[/quote']

 

AD&D 2nd Edition Arquebus. Open-ended d10 damage. I don't think anyone in my party fielded one.

[Tonio]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

AD&D 2nd Edition sounds right... I remember how Gnomes were portrayed there (I loved them!), and the Arquebus sounds like the perfect weapon for them. In fact, I may have played a Gnome with an Arquebus once!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

I'm a renaissance black powder geek, so I often include black powder in my games (especially if the game is gonna involve ships... Catapults & ballista just don't have the right "feel" for me). I have enough experience with the subject to have come up with some fairly good rules for them. If I can find my notes I might post some of them. I recall, in general, as doing them as a KA based on the caliber and type of gun, with +1 stun (because they basically bludgeon their way into a body, as opposed to an arrow which cuts), and extra DC's with boostable charges w/reduced by range to represent loading heavy and "point and blank" fire impact. All of them got Semi Armor Peircing, only vs "Real Armor", and proofed armor was built with hardened, only vs "Real Weapons".

 

IIRC, I handled loading with a variable Limit:Extra time or Requires a Dex Roll and Major Side Effects. Combined with the usual "real weapon" mishap tables and the fact that they're incredibly easy to foul this seems to best simulate my experiences... I've only seen one gun explosion from misuse (averted another, tho), but several bad accidents while trying to 'combat reload', usually from a stray ember lodged in the priming pan

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

I always like to give "gun powder" to Dwarves and call it something like

 

"Breath of Mordin"

 

Stating that it has secret elements that defy all attemts to duplicate it

outside of the secret Dwarven temples that make it. Besides it is only

the Dwarves that have the skill to make the metal barrels strong enough

to be able to be used with it anyway as well too.

 

Penn

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

But for a "typical" sort of Fantasy setting' date=' IMO introducing gunpowder sort of spoils things.[/quote']

I disagree. Although I generally prefer my fantasy without, I don't think it would really spoil all that much. It changes the nature of combat a little, and the nature of large-scale warfare a lot. But so does a "wand of magic missiles".

 

Things that IMO would spoil fantasy would be telecommunications, rapid transit, computers.

[Tonio]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

I don't think you can categorically say anything "ruins" fantasy. I've read fantasy that involves computers, and it was awesome. Certainly a very different flavor from traditional High Fantasy... but great nonetheless. A strictly medieval fantasy setting wouldn't include gunpowder, but a Renaissance setting would certainly include it.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

Guns, guns, guns. My life would be so boring without them. -- An old quote from a now long forgotten Shadowrun supplement.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

One fantasy series which had gunpowder in it that springs to my mind is Michael A. Stackpole's 'DragonCrown War'. In which the Great Enemy/Dark Lady uses gunpowder weapons to assault a seemingly impregnable fortress.

 

It was an excellent series and I thoroughly enjoyed it. And the inclusion of gunpowder only made it more interesting.

 

The stand alone novel 'Court of the Air' is set in a Victorianesque/Steampunk world and that deals rather interestingly with the ideas of magical guns and guns versus magic. ALso a great read.

 

I would say what holds true for fantasy fiction holds true for RPGing as well. Although I am obviously rather biased.

 

Particularly because although I can enjoy an adventure in a 'typical fantasy setting' I would be bored to tears if I had to write one or run a game in one. That's just me I guess.

 

BTW. Thia Halmades, these primitive robots of yours, are they steam powered, magic or what?

[Spence]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

I have located my Gun guideline for use in a fantasy game. Since I haven't been able to playtest it I am hesitant to post it for general consumption. I woudl be glad to email the doc to anyone interested in trying them out.

 

A note on them. They are not to recreate real world accurate firearms. They are specifically for introducing limited basic firearms into a fantasy game.

[Basil]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

One fantasy series which had gunpowder in it that springs to my mind is Michael A. Stackpole's 'DragonCrown War'.

 

Of course, the granddaddy of them all is the "fire of Orthanc" as Aragorn called it, that was used to blow down the wall at Helm's Deep.

[Tonio]

Re: Turakian Age Q: Gunpowder?

 

Of course' date=' the granddaddy of them all is the "fire of Orthanc" as Aragorn called it, that was used to blow down the wall at Helm's Deep. [/quote']

 

What?! You're making that up... that wasn't in the movie!

 

 

I kid, I kid...