PRE Drains

[Tonio]

The general consensus regarding a power that makes people easier to impress is PRE Drain, right? But wouldn't that actually make it harder for them to impress others, while potentially not affecting their ability to resist being impressed? You use PRE to impress, but you can use either PRE or EGO to resist. So you'd really have to drain both EGO and PRE, which is not only more expensive, but also has undesired side effects.

 

Thoughts?

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

What do you mean by "easier to impress"? It makes them naive? It makes them afraid? It makes them stupid?

 

I build fear attacks, guilt attacks, etc. as Drain PRE and EGO simultaneously.

[Tonio]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Well, "easier to impress" can be "afraid", "naive", "meek", whatever gets specified when the power's built.

 

Also, I forgot to explicitly mention... draining PRE also lowers their ability to impress others, which might not only be undesired, but unwarranted. Let's say I want to build a power that makes you naive and gullible. That shouldn't make you easier to hit with mental powers, or shouldn't make you worse at attacking mentally (so there shouldn't be an EGO/ECV hit), and it shouldn't hamper your ability to scare, intimidate, or convince others... PRE+EGO Drain would do both of these, which we don't want. PRE Drain would only do the latter, but wouldn't really make you more suceptible to PRE attacks if your EGO is higher than your PRE.

 

Has anybody played around with a "PRE Defense" score, or something similar? Alternatively, has anybody played around with a sort of limited Drain (like Drain PRE, Only To Resist PRE Attacks)?

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Well, "easier to impress" can be "afraid", "naive", "meek", whatever gets specified when the power's built.

 

Also, I forgot to explicitly mention... draining PRE also lowers their ability to impress others, which might not only be undesired, but unwarranted. Let's say I want to build a power that makes you naive and gullible. That shouldn't make you easier to hit with mental powers, or shouldn't make you worse at attacking mentally (so there shouldn't be an EGO/ECV hit), and it shouldn't hamper your ability to scare, intimidate, or convince others... PRE+EGO Drain would do both of these, which we don't want. PRE Drain would only do the latter, but wouldn't really make you more suceptible to PRE attacks if your EGO is higher than your PRE.

 

Has anybody played around with a "PRE Defense" score, or something similar? Alternatively, has anybody played around with a sort of limited Drain (like Drain PRE, Only To Resist PRE Attacks)?

 

Some sort of Mind Control?

 

Aha. Change Environment?

 

Transform?

[Diamond Spear]

Re: PRE Drains

 

I usually won't allow PRE drains becasue people in my games have to come up with a reasonable explanation/SFX, which they generally can't. Does that make me a bad GM?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Some sort of Mind Control?

 

Aha. Change Environment?

 

Transform?

 

No, moron. It's obviously a cut & dried case of Extra Dimensional Movement, where we move from a world where you're not impressed to one where you ARE. Duh. Do I have to explain everything around here?!

 

And in answer to the question: My line of thinking generally puts the onus of the attack on the aggressor (logically). So if you want to "impress people" more easily, you would use an Aid PRE on yourself to make the attack more potent (thus turning the problem upside down, and still requiring the roll on the part of the instigator).

 

My Fear based spells are built as Mind Control, Set Effect: Only to Cause Fear. So it also depends on the actual end result you want. In the ancient Wild Cards books, the... Puppet Master, IIRC? Could manipulate emotions, so he would in fact "Suppress PRE" as an AOE on anyone in the room whom he'd touched, but the effect ended when he 'released the strings' attached to their emotional matrices. So it's a valid way of doing it, just not how I've done it.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Problem with suppressing their PRE is that eventually their EGO is the top dog, and you have to suppress that, too. I'm with the Lord Captain on this one -- boosting your own PRE is the way to go.

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

No' date=' moron. It's obviously a cut & dried case of [i']Extra Dimensional Movement[/i], where we move from a world where you're not impressed to one where you ARE. Duh. Do I have to explain everything around here?!

 

And in answer to the question: My line of thinking generally puts the onus of the attack on the aggressor (logically). So if you want to "impress people" more easily, you would use an Aid PRE on yourself to make the attack more potent (thus turning the problem upside down, and still requiring the roll on the part of the instigator).

 

My Fear based spells are built as Mind Control, Set Effect: Only to Cause Fear. So it also depends on the actual end result you want. In the ancient Wild Cards books, the... Puppet Master, IIRC? Could manipulate emotions, so he would in fact "Suppress PRE" as an AOE on anyone in the room whom he'd touched, but the effect ended when he 'released the strings' attached to their emotional matrices. So it's a valid way of doing it, just not how I've done it.

 

Ok, loser of losers. I use the PRE/EGO Drain combo as a means to represent turning somebody's psyche into silly-putty through some kind of overload, whether it be through fear, overwhelmingly guilt, Cthulhoid SAN-blasting, or what have you. The result of the double whammy Drain is that the poor fellow, once drained to negatives in both stats, is sitting in the corner screaming "oh god! oh god! the humanity!" He can't make any aggressive action, and he will obey anything you tell him.

 

In fact the character I'm finishing up building has just this power, defined as overwhelming the target with guilty memories of bad things he's done.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Ok, loser of losers. I use the PRE/EGO Drain combo as a means to represent turning somebody's psyche into silly-putty through some kind of overload, whether it be through fear, overwhelmingly guilt, Cthulhoid SAN-blasting, or what have you. The result of the double whammy Drain is that the poor fellow, once drained to negatives in both stats, is sitting in the corner screaming "oh god! oh god! the humanity!" He can't make any aggressive action, and he will obey anything you tell him.

 

In fact the character I'm finishing up building has just this power, defined as overwhelming the target with guilty memories of bad things he's done.

 

I'm telling you. XDM. It's the only way you'll get to a dimension where I'm wrong and you're right. (j/k, of course)

 

You have a good point though; a big enough Drain would certainly get the job done. I hadn't considered that before (being, as I said, offensive-based in most of my thinking, this was an alternate tack that hadn't occurred to me). Repp'd if I can for enlightenment.

 

Curses! I must spread some reputation around before giving it to Vestnik again. But your day of reckoning will come!

[Comic]

Re: PRE Drains

 

PRE Drain 4d6, Delay Return Rate 1 minute, One Charge, IAF (liquid of opportunity), Gestures and Incantations, Special effect: sleight of hand to dump a glass of water in target's lap, then point, laugh and shout, "Look, Dr. Destroyer just peed himself!"

 

I'd say the good Dr., in addition to being taken less seriously would also be flustered and temporarily more easily swayed himself.

 

And then he'd kill everyone.

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

I'm telling you. XDM. It's the only way you'll get to a dimension where I'm wrong and you're right. (j/k, of course)

 

You have a good point though; a big enough Drain would certainly get the job done. I hadn't considered that before (being, as I said, offensive-based in most of my thinking, this was an alternate tack that hadn't occurred to me). Repp'd if I can for enlightenment.

 

Curses! I must spread some reputation around before giving it to Vestnik again. But your day of reckoning will come!

 

And if you buy the recovery rate date enough, the target will stay a gibbering, psyche-blasted mass for a LONG time.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: PRE Drains

 

And if you buy the recovery rate date enough' date=' the target will stay a gibbering, psyche-blasted mass for a LONG time.[/quote']

 

That certainly would be one very evil PRE/EGO attack; at four dice with little or no PowD, though, the PRE will drop like a stone (12 points) but the EGO will hold a bit better (6 points). It's, what +1/4 to affect two stats simultaneously?

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

That certainly would be one very evil PRE/EGO attack; at four dice with little or no PowD' date=' though, the PRE will drop like a stone (12 points) but the EGO will hold a bit better (6 points). It's, what +1/4 to affect two stats simultaneously?[/quote']

 

+1/2 I think. Do it repeatedly to the same guy with your 4d6 PRE/EGO Drain. He's down 24 PRE and 12 EGO. For a 20-PRE 10-EGO super, that's gibbering madness.

 

Add in an INT Drain on top of that and he's a blithering idiot too.

 

This is by the way how I would do Call of Cthulhu Sanity loss, I think (not the INT Drain though).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: PRE Drains

 

+1/2 I think. Do it repeatedly to the same guy with your 4d6 PRE/EGO Drain. He's down 24 PRE and 12 EGO. For a 20-PRE 10-EGO super, that's gibbering madness.

 

Add in an INT Drain on top of that and he's a blithering idiot too.

 

This is by the way how I would do Call of Cthulhu Sanity loss, I think (not the INT Drain though).

 

*snaps gauntleted fingers*

 

That's right. Drain doesn't cap, does it? Ew. So you can just keep on Draining and Draining right until they fall over. I may have to go back and review Chris' build for his Dimensional Expulsion power (which has RSR, and the target gets an EGO roll to resist; but Chris also has an EGO Drain on it). Crap.

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

*snaps gauntleted fingers*

 

That's right. Drain doesn't cap, does it? Ew. So you can just keep on Draining and Draining right until they fall over. I may have to go back and review Chris' build for his Dimensional Expulsion power (which has RSR, and the target gets an EGO roll to resist; but Chris also has an EGO Drain on it). Crap.

 

I believe it does cap at the maximum rollable on the dice. So a 4d6 PRE Drain will drain a maximum of 24 points. You can buy the maximum up though.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: PRE Drains

 

I believe it does cap at the maximum rollable on the dice. So a 4d6 PRE Drain will drain a maximum of 24 points. You can buy the maximum up though.

 

I never remember which ones cap and which ones don't.

[Tonio]

Re: PRE Drains

 

I never remember which ones cap and which ones don't.

 

Suppress and its counterpart Succor don't cap. Drain and its counterpart Aid, do. The "capping" concept makes no sense for Dispel.

 

Suppress and Succor stack (as in you can keep on stacking them without limit). (Ok, so it's a crappy mnemonic... but hey, it's all I could come up with on short notice!)

 

Edit: Please ignore this, as it's wrong!

[Dr.Device]

Re: PRE Drains

 

per 5er p 151:

There’s no limit to the amount of Character Points a character can Drain from his victim.

[ghost-angel]

Re: PRE Drains

 

No Limit:

Drain, Suppress, Succor

 

Limit:

Dispel (and only because you get to roll once to try), Aid, Transfer, Absorb.

 

Generally - if it adds, you have a limit. If it removes you do not.

 

It is also common courtesy that if you use a PRE Drain on someone they are forced to use PRE to resist a PRE Attack, not EGO. Assuming you allow PRE Drain in the first place.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: PRE Drains

 

I believe it does cap at the maximum rollable on the dice. So a 4d6 PRE Drain will drain a maximum of 24 points. You can buy the maximum up though.

 

No, a Drain is like most other atacks It drains its 4d6 each hit, with no maximum

 

EDIT: Should have readpage 2 first...

[Vestnik]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Sweetness. Is this a rules change? I could have sworn it was capped in Fred.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Ok' date=' loser of losers. I use the PRE/EGO Drain combo as a means to represent turning somebody's psyche into silly-putty through some kind of overload, whether it be through fear, overwhelmingly guilt, Cthulhoid SAN-blasting, or what have you. The result of the double whammy Drain is that the poor fellow, once drained to negatives in both stats, is sitting in the corner screaming "oh god! oh god! the humanity!" He can't make any aggressive action, and he will obey anything you tell him.[/quote']

 

Curse you, Vestnik! I'm outta rep! I'll get you later if I remember to.

[ghost-angel]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Sweetness. Is this a rules change? I could have sworn it was capped in Fred.

 

No, Drain has never had a cap.

[Dr Divago]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Sorry to bother you, i'm pretty noob in hero power's costruction but...

why a "drain pre" for fear attack?

 

i mean:

i always thought, a "fear-me spell" is something who Increase (ie: aid, or plain char boost, or like) my PRE with a "only to make fearful presence attack (-½ or -1)" limitation

 

why building it as a "drain pre, only to resist fearful presence attack"?

 

just plain question, don't whanna start a flame about power construction, ofc

[Killer Shrike]

Re: PRE Drains

 

Im not sure where you got the impression that the way to "impress others" is to use a Drain vs PRE. The most direct and side effect free way to accomplish the effect you are talking about is to simply buy more PRE as a Power with appropriate Lims applied to it for the specifics of the shtick you are going for. You can also Aid or Succor PRE if you like, you can also buy one or more interaction skills with extremely high skill rolls, but raw PRE is generally easiest.

 

Alternately, if this isnt an actual power, but just situations in which a character is taken more seriously than others, you should consider the Reputation perk.