Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I have a player who wants to play Piper from Charmed. Chief ability, to temporarily freeze time around her. AIR from the show this basically gives her a short set of actions while everyone else frozen. I'm thinking maybe its SPD bought as a power, but all usable in the same segment? Does that sound right? Does anyone have a better idea? What sort of advantage is that to lump all the actions in one segment? +1? +2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Spear Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... It's funny you should as since Thia Halmades just wrote up this power for me. Here it is: The Ridiculously Overpowered Time Stop: (Total: 397 Active Cost, 85 Real Cost) Suppress Suppress SPD 18d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (11" Radius; Exactly Fills a Room; +1), Conforming (+1/2) (247 Active Points); Activation Roll 8-, Burnout (Rolled after first full Turn, and every Turn thereafter (see note: Charges); -1 1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Spell (Witchcraft; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (1 Minute Duration Maximum; Spell may end prematurely (Caster Cannot Determine Duration); -1/4) (Real Cost: 55) plus Suppress Suppress INT 10d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (12" Radius; +1 1/4), Conforming (+1/2) (150 Active Points); Activation Roll 8-, Burnout (Burnout Effect tied to "Fly in Amber."; -1 1/2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (Flies in Amber; -1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Spell (Withcraft; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (See Text "Flies in Amber"; -1/4) (Real Cost: 30) The Activation roll is for the Burnout which only occurs after the first turn, this reflects the fact that she does not know how long it will last. Her sisters (and other witches) being immune to it should be written up as part of the "Witch Package" and not tacked onto the power. THe charges are there to reflect the fact that she never really used the power that often, and never back to back, in the same day. It also helps prevent this from being an automatic win power. CAUTION: This can very easily turn into a game ruining power if not handled correctly. See also this thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62943 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... There are a lot of ways to build it; I've never seen the show, but my build is based on Oddhat's concept of Suppressing both SPD and INT; SPD to keep them from moving, INT to keep them from perceiving, special effect: Time Stop. There are a LOT of ways to do it, that was just the one that worked for me (and I did it with Louis' help). So feel free to rep us both, as we're equally responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Thanks. Its an interesting approach, my two issues are (a) this only stops people and I believe she could freeze objects in the air (not positive, but I think I remember that) and ( wow is it complex. At the moment I like the two approaches of extra-dimensional travel and area effect time travel on everything in the area a short time into the future. Im leaning towards the second. Its even almost scientifically defensible (time is relative The thread was VERY helpful, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Spear Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Thanks. Its an interesting approach, my two issues are (a) this only stops people and I believe she could freeze objects in the air (not positive, but I think I remember that) and ( wow is it complex. At the moment I like the two approaches of extra-dimensional travel and area effect time travel on everything in the area a short time into the future. Im leaning towards the second. Its even almost scientifically defensible (time is relative The thread was VERY helpful, thanks. You are right about the objects. Of course you can always handwave that one. But that's one of the great things about HERO, you can do the same thing in a bunch of different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Take a look at the discussion on the Speed Zone in The Ultimate Speedster. It's designed to do precisely this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawsplay Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... You could add TK, No Range, Uncontrolled (-1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Yes, indeed, EDM certainly has the advantage of being simple... One approach, depending on what you can do when everyone else is frozen (I haven't seen it either) is to build certain triggered actions. Arguably, triggered actions take no time* at all, so it is as if you have acted while everyone else stood still. The problem with this kind of ability is that I doubt the characters from 'Charmed' ever use their 'frozen time' to jam a live grenade in an opponent's mouth and tape it there. You know what i'm saying. *Although they might well take quite some time to set up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Okay, so here is what I came up with.... any system issues anyone can see? Cost 56 END 17 Time Stop: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Physical Location Same As Starting Location), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (40" Radius; +1 1/2) (169 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; Control over on, but not duration.; -1), Others Only (-1/2), Requires A Skill Roll (Magic; -1/2) Notes: SFX: Time Stop. Up to 6 seconds. (only into the future.) Exact time is random (Uncontrollable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... I'm going to kill Sean... again, as was mentioned, look to the Speed Zone in Speedster. Diamond Spear & I were going rounds about this, because without handwaves, HERO just doesn't handle Time well at all. It's not a fault of the system, per se; there's just no good way to do it (including Time Travel, Time Reversal, Time Slow, Time Stop, and so on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Spear Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Not sure about system but there are some cannon issues with it. It shouldn’t have an activation roll since the power always works, you need to add gestures wince she has to use her hands to activate the power. That’s just off the top of my head. System-wise I’m not sure what the “Usable as an Attack” is supposed to represent. There is nothing in the power that (mechanically speaking) prevents the affected to act on their normal phases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Not sure about system but there are some cannon issues with it. It shouldn’t have an activation roll since the power always works' date=' you need to add gestures wince she has to use her hands to activate the power. That’s just off the top of my head. System-wise I’m not sure what the “Usable as an Attack” is supposed to represent. There is nothing in the power that (mechanically speaking) prevents the affected to act on their normal phases.[/quote'] Usable As Attack is required because EDM is a personal movement power, not an attack power, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Okay, so here is what I came up with.... any system issues anyone can see? Cost 37 END 17 Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Physical Location Same As Starting Location), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (40" Radius; +1 1/2) (169 Active Points); Activation Roll 8- (-2), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; Control over on, but not duration.; -1), Others Only (-1/2) Notes: SFX: Time Stop. Up to 6 seconds. (only into the future.) Exact time is random (Uncontrollable) EDM triggers my 'Berserk' Disadvantage? Basically, as I understand this power, you are moving others into the future. Not a problem with that at all, actually, even though it is EDM: that is a perfectly reasonable use of it. The difficulty is, to my mind, what are you planning to be able to do while they are travelling? If you can affect them before they re-appear up to 6 seconds in the future, well, that seems to me something of a problem - they shouldn't really be there to be affected. EDM is a movement power. Now you could (something like how I understand the speed zone concept to work) move yourself to a congruent reality where time passes MUCH more quickly, buy extradimensional senses to be able to see back into this one, and extradimensional powers (including, if you like, your strength so you can pick stuff up and move it around), and you are good to go. That is the rage stimulus for me though because it seems to be a blatant metagame use of an alternate reality to give you an advantage in this one. What sort of things to you envisage being able to accomplish whilst time is stopped around you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Not sure about system but there are some cannon issues with it. It shouldn’t have an activation roll since the power always works' date=' you need to add gestures wince she has to use her hands to activate the power. [/quote'] Okay, I wasn't entirely sure about that. One issue if I remove the magic roll is the question of aborting to it as a defense. She can obviously do it, but it shouldn't be automatically successful. I'm considering the idea of making her make a "dive for cover" roll in order to successfully use it as a defense. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... EDM triggers my 'Berserk' Disadvantage? Basically, as I understand this power, you are moving others into the future. Not a problem with that at all, actually, even though it is EDM: that is a perfectly reasonable use of it. The difficulty is, to my mind, what are you planning to be able to do while they are travelling? If you can affect them before they re-appear up to 6 seconds in the future, well, that seems to me something of a problem - they shouldn't really be there to be affected. EDM is a movement power. Thats okay I was planning on making them time-frozen and unaffectable. Otherwise its just too powerful. (eg stop time, slit throat) I'm still trying to decide if Im going to llow inanimate objects to be moved. Theoretically they shouldnt be movable or changeable, but Im not sure that isnt too much of a limitation (and Im not sure about show canon on that.) What sort of things to you envisage being able to accomplish whilst time is stopped around you? What Piper did in the show, within reason. Honestly Im a bit fuzzy, been awhile since I watched it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... I'm going to kill Sean... again' date=' as was mentioned, look to the Speed Zone in Speedster. Diamond Spear & I were going rounds about this, because without handwaves, HERO just doesn't handle Time well at all. It's not a fault of the system, per se; there's just no good way to do it (including Time Travel, Time Reversal, Time Slow, Time Stop, and so on).[/quote'] Normal Service Resumed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... If using EDM, and you plan on being able to do things to them while they're "in transit" (i.e. frozen), you would need to buy whatever you're using to affect them as Transdimensional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... If you can't affect people or objects at all, you can build a time stop as teleport (since, really, all you can do by stopping time is move yourself somehwere else 'instantly' from the PoV of those 'stoppped.'). If you can move, but not harm, people or objects, you could buy it as UAO teleport. This is if you litterally stop time, not just stop time locally for a small area like the 9th L D&D spell - that works better with EDM. And, yes, the 'Speed Zone' does seem to work pretty well for this sort of thing. It's a lot of hand-waving, IMHO, but it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Thats okay I was planning on making them time-frozen and unaffectable. Otherwise its just too powerful. (eg stop time, slit throat) I'm still trying to decide if Im going to llow inanimate objects to be moved. Theoretically they shouldnt be movable or changeable, but Im not sure that isnt too much of a limitation (and Im not sure about show canon on that.) What Piper did in the show, within reason. Honestly Im a bit fuzzy, been awhile since I watched it. Ah the old 'stop time, slit throat' ploy If what you basically want to be able to do it move stuff around, I'd seriously consider IPE AoE TK (although that does sound expensive, doesn't it?) or some sort of teleportation UAA power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Hooray for Wikipedia "Piper's inherited power is the power of molecular immobilization, also known as temporal stasis. This primarily gives her the ability to 'freeze' objects in motion by slowing down their molecular movement rate to such a point where they appear not to move. Her power is initially triggered by panic and Piper had to make hand gestures to cause things to freeze or unfreeze. If Piper's hands were tied, she'd be powerless.[5] Piper at first could only freeze everything in her immediate location (within the room she was in) and the freeze would only last for a few seconds." I'm perfectly happy with making it the pwoer she started with, after all this is a new character. So freezing everything works. Interestingly enough, according to Wikipedia, it actually ISN'T time stop. Its more like massive molecular TK. But the effect is really a time stop so I'm going to stick with the EDM approach ('reason from effect'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Desmarais Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... I have a player who wants to play Piper from Charmed. Chief ability, to temporarily freeze time around her. AIR from the show this basically gives her a short set of actions while everyone else frozen. I'm thinking maybe its SPD bought as a power, but all usable in the same segment? Does that sound right? Does anyone have a better idea? What sort of advantage is that to lump all the actions in one segment? +1? +2? How about instead of mucking with the SPD chart (which sets off many of my GM disads) you just do a moderately large area invisible Entangle with personal immunity, Takes No Damage From Physical Attacks and Cannot Form Barriers, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleport (and maybe and Works Against EGO, Not STR). Limit it to only last for a fixed amount of time and you're all set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Normal Service Resumed I don't know that anyone other than the two of us knows precisely what this refers too, but rest assured that I do, and for an extremely well placed shot, I give you t3h r3ppz0rz. Bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... How about instead of mucking with the SPD chart (which sets off many of my GM disads) you just do a moderately large area invisible Entangle with personal immunity' date=' Takes No Damage From Physical Attacks and Cannot Form Barriers, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleport (and maybe and Works Against EGO, Not STR). Limit it to only last for a fixed amount of time and you're all set.[/quote'] Its an interesting idea. Two problems with entangle is that (1) it can be broken out of and (2) i doubt it can be used defensively to, say, stop a bullet. And this was the primary original use of the power AIR. I'm still finding the AOE EDM as the bast fit in my imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Desmarais Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... Its an interesting idea. Two problems with entangle is that (1) it can be broken out of and (2) i doubt it can be used defensively to, say, stop a bullet. And this was the primary original use of the power AIR. I'm still finding the AOE EDM as the bast fit in my imagination. Leave off the "Cannot Form Barriers" and it can stop a bullet (and be used in other defensive ways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Re: OKay here's a toughie... "Piper's inherited power is the power of molecular immobilization' date=' also known as temporal stasis. This primarily gives her the ability to 'freeze' objects in motion by slowing down their molecular movement rate to such a point where they appear not to move. Her power is initially triggered by panic and Piper had to make hand gestures to cause things to freeze or unfreeze. If Piper's hands were tied, she'd be powerless.[5'] Piper at first could only freeze everything in her immediate location (within the room she was in) and the freeze would only last for a few seconds."From the looks of this I'd call it an Entangle, with most of the Modifiers John suggests, except that it works against BODY. If it's sufficiently large (and/or has lots of extra DEF) then the issue of breaking out becomes negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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