The Ultimates Bundle

[Mestopheles]

Hey guys, I was browsing the online store and found the Ultimates Bundle:

The Ultimate Vehicle

Hero System Vehicle Sourcebook

Ultimate Brick

Ultimate Mystic

Ultimate Metamorph

Ultimate Speedster,Ultimate Mentalist

Ultimate Skill

Ultimate Energy Projector

Total price: $200.

 

I know this is a bargain in terms of overall cost, but assuming that $200 is more or lessa hand-wave and all I have at the moment is the base book, would this be a good first purchace to round out my HERO stuff?

 

In other words, if you only had the Big Black Book and 200 bucks to spend, would you spend it on this bundle?

[robertep]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

hell ye

[Comic]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

It would certainly expand options in your campaign world.

 

If your game's getting stale, or you don't like just the same-ol' thing, or if you love diversity and inspirations, it's a good way to go.

[jtelson]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

I would say you're better served with the Genre books, $200 should get you at least 5 so maybe

 

Champions

Fantasy Hero

Star Hero

Pulp Hero

Dark Champions

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Personally I'd recommend the Ultimates Bundle plus the genre book of your choice. Play your favorite genre, the Ultimate way!

 

But that's just me.

[Mestopheles]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

The problem I have with Genre books is I tend to blend genres a lot. The game I'm getting ready to run borrows elements From Fantasy, Champions, SciFi, and Gritty "Dark Heroes-esque" material, flavor, and power sets.

 

I don't particularly want to buy all of those, I think between my ideas and the HM files available online I can find enough builds for utility that I'm not sure what else I'd be getting out of the genre books.

 

Maybe I'm underestimating the broad utility of the genre books though.

[Vann the Red]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Personally I'd recommend the Ultimates Bundle plus the genre book of your choice. Play your favorite genre, the Ultimate way!

 

But that's just me.

 

QFT and repped.

 

VtR

[Bloodstone]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

I get quite a bit of mileage out of the Ultimate line of books. IMO, the Ultimate Skill is one of the very best books in the line. Useful for everyone at the table regardless of genre or archetype.

 

A lot of the Ultimate material (power builds and such) is nice when I'm short on time or ideas for a new character (NPC or otherwise).

 

I like a lot of the optional rules presented

 

Of course, one day I dream of Steve compiling them all into a new hardbound version of the main book.

 

We could call it 5ER: Power Lifter Edition

[JmOz]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

For the game descrined I would recomend the Ultimate line over other books. Hell I can't imagine running a game without the Ultimate martial Artist...

[Bloodstone]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Oh sure, rub it in...

 

(UMA is out of print and thus not part of the bundle)

[archermoo]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Oh sure, rub it in...

 

(UMA is out of print and thus not part of the bundle)

 

But it is available as a PDF.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

The Ultimate Bundle is worth it, especially as an expansion to your collection.

 

If you already know what kind of genre you want to run in then the Ult. Series can only add to your game.

[jtelson]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

The problem I have with Genre books is I tend to blend genres a lot. The game I'm getting ready to run borrows elements From Fantasy, Champions, SciFi, and Gritty "Dark Heroes-esque" material, flavor, and power sets.

 

I don't particularly want to buy all of those, I think between my ideas and the HM files available online I can find enough builds for utility that I'm not sure what else I'd be getting out of the genre books.

 

Maybe I'm underestimating the broad utility of the genre books though.

 

If you've got a good handle on the genre(s) you're looking for and the system itself then the beauty of Hero is all you need is the main book and since I'm pretty much the only believer that the Ultimate books represent an huge step back for Hero games you're probably better off not listening to me when it comes to purchaseing decisions regarding them.

[Kdansky]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

I'm with jtelson on this. I really don't like it that I should buy five books just to get

 

- self created Martial Arts (about 5 pages in UMA)

- some more skill level fine grain (Uskill)

- ressource pools (dark champions)

- some things for sfx I've heard about (UEP)

- enter the speed zone (USpeed)

 

That's just very expensive for very tiny content to me. I have UMA, and I am not impressed. I do not play the generic settings anyway, so that does not help me. And I believe I am experienced enough as a GM to not need much of the advice that is given in that regard (how do I run low realism / high realism / low death / high risk ... campaigns).

I would buy a "Extended" book, which covers all the *new* rules mentioned but does not offer dozens and dozens of examples. UMA has what? 50 pages of styles which are nearly identical statwise? If I want to have real world Martial Art styles, I can go read a book about it and then put that into numbers myself (something I actually enjoy). Same goes for guns or other equipment.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Character Creation Handbook is probably a good buy for you. It adds in many of the Advantages and Limitations that have been thought up since 5E came out and puts them into the Rules for handy reference.

 

For the Record: I think you're discrediting the advice and tidbits of the Ult. Books and the added depth they can give.

[Kdansky]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Character Creation Handbook is probably a good buy for you. It adds in many of the Advantages and Limitations that have been thought up since 5E came out and puts them into the Rules for handy reference.

 

For the Record: I think you're discrediting the advice and tidbits of the Ult. Books and the added depth they can give.

I hope I do, but I think it's just my playstile which absolutely does not lend itself to these additional books. I really want to like them, but I just can't...

[jtelson]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

I'm with jtelson on this. I really don't like it that I should buy five books just to get

 

- self created Martial Arts (about 5 pages in UMA)

- some more skill level fine grain (Uskill)

- ressource pools (dark champions)

- some things for sfx I've heard about (UEP)

- enter the speed zone (USpeed)

 

That's just very expensive for very tiny content to me. I have UMA, and I am not impressed. I do not play the generic settings anyway, so that does not help me. And I believe I am experienced enough as a GM to not need much of the advice that is given in that regard (how do I run low realism / high realism / low death / high risk ... campaigns).

I would buy a "Extended" book, which covers all the *new* rules mentioned but does not offer dozens and dozens of examples. UMA has what? 50 pages of styles which are nearly identical statwise? If I want to have real world Martial Art styles, I can go read a book about it and then put that into numbers myself (something I actually enjoy). Same goes for guns or other equipment.

 

For the record, my issue with the Ultimate books is that there's a greater than 0 amount of new rules, not that there's not enough new rules.

[Kdansky]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

For the record' date=' my issue with the Ultimate books is that there's a greater than 0 amount of new rules, not that there's not enough new rules.[/quote']

 

Yes, that's the same for me too. I want to have access to all rules without having to buy a new book every two months. I'm still on a student budget, meaning, I don't want to spend money for things I think I already bought.

But I can see that a company wants to publish things and sell stuff, so I can live with having more than one book for sale, and I will gladly buy a new book once in a while (!) if I think it's really worth the money. But then it better be good. In the case of hero, that leads to a dilemma: Either all content is in the main book (and I don't buy supplements) or content is split (and then I'm disappointed with the main book and might even switch systems). And if you just add redudant rules (D20, I'm looking at you!), that's also not so nice.

 

Also, I would love to buy the print versions if I would get a free (or cheap) PDF with it, but I don't want to pay the full price twice for the same content (But then, I could argue for hours why the current copyright laws and patent laws are a disaster...). I like books, but PDF is way more convenient. I can actually draft up characters in the train if I have my notebook with me. But carrying 5ER around?

[Tonio]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Also' date=' I would love to buy the print versions if I would get a free (or cheap) PDF with it, but I don't want to pay the full price twice for the same content (But then, I could argue for hours why the current copyright laws and patent laws are a disaster...). I like books, but PDF is way more convenient. I can actually draft up characters in the train if I have my notebook with me. But carrying 5ER around? [/quote']

 

Yeah, I was actually pretty sure that legally owning a printed copy gave you a right to have an electronic copy for exclusive personal use (which would mean you could copy a friend's PDF as long as you owned the hardcopy book)... but was told otherwise in another thread.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

For the record' date=' my issue with the Ultimate books is that there's a greater than 0 amount of new rules, not that there's not enough new rules.[/quote']

 

In the case of hero' date=' that leads to a dilemma: Either all content is in the main book (and I don't buy supplements) or content is split (and then I'm disappointed with the main book and might even switch systems). And if you just add redudant rules (D20, I'm looking at you!), that's also not so nice.[/quote']

 

Good luck finding a system which is complete in one volume under today's market conditions.

 

Once upon a time, companies made a game, then made supplements (normally scenarios) for it and made other games. Once in a while, they released an "added rules" supplement. But gamers wanted more complete rule sets, so bigger games and more supplements to rules evolved. Players wanted rule sets that were transportable across multiple game settings and genres. So more generic systems evolved, and companies published less games. And companies discovered that scenarios are comparatively poor sellers (only one person in a gaming group typically buys them, but many more will buy new rules and options).

 

Of course, they also buy up all your old books again if you create a new edition, then update all your existing products to that new edition. Why publish new content continuously when you can create a new system every five years, then edit and re-release the last five years' of content and get better sales than that new content would have generated? Once your five years are up, time for a new edition!

 

Is that model to my liking as a consumer? Frankly, no. But it is the model that consumers overall have voted for with their dollars (euros, francs, pesos, won, yen, what have you), so it is the model that business (or at least business wanting to thrive, or at least stay in business) provides.

[Tonio]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Those "new rules", though... they're not essential to gameplay. They're entirely optional. In many cases, they're not "new rules" but "new takes on old rules" (e.g. the Speedzone thing... it's a fleshing out of a dimension that can be travelled to with EDM, or the UEP's SFX Advantages, Adders, and Limitations... they're really encapsulating certain concepts that were already there and repackaging them... the "Lightning (+1/4)" SFX Advantage (please note, I don't have my book with me, I'm making the number up) is really like saying "+XX Active Points, Limited Power (only vs such and such SFX's)" plus "Explosion, Limited Power (only in such and such conditions)" plus "Limited Power (loses YY Active Points vs such and such SFX's)", and as far as I can tell, you don't have to use the SFX modifiers across the board or not at all... you can certainly have only one power on one character use 'em).

 

I dunno, I've always seen this type of book as pre-packaged, pre-built ideas and house rules, not much different at all from scenarios or campaign settings.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

For the record' date=' my issue with the Ultimate books is that there's a greater than 0 amount of new rules, not that there's not enough new rules.[/quote']

 

Yes, that's the same for me too. I want to have access to all rules without having to buy a new book every two months. I'm still on a student budget, meaning, I don't want to spend money for things I think I already bought.

But I can see that a company wants to publish things and sell stuff, so I can live with having more than one book for sale, and I will gladly buy a new book once in a while (!) if I think it's really worth the money. But then it better be good. In the case of hero, that leads to a dilemma: Either all content is in the main book (and I don't buy supplements) or content is split (and then I'm disappointed with the main book and might even switch systems). And if you just add redudant rules (D20, I'm looking at you!), that's also not so nice.

 

Also, I would love to buy the print versions if I would get a free (or cheap) PDF with it, but I don't want to pay the full price twice for the same content (But then, I could argue for hours why the current copyright laws and patent laws are a disaster...). I like books, but PDF is way more convenient. I can actually draft up characters in the train if I have my notebook with me. But carrying 5ER around?

 

There really aren't any new Rules. There are suggestions of ways to use existing rules in New Ways.

 

Yeah' date=' I was actually pretty sure that legally owning a printed copy gave you a right to have an electronic copy for exclusive personal use (which would mean you could copy a friend's PDF as long as you owned the hardcopy book)... but was told otherwise in another thread.[/quote']

 

You have a right to make a backup copy of your owned copy - if you have the means. But a PDF and a Book are completely separate forms of Publication.

 

It's just like if you own a CD, you don't get to go get the MP3 Album for free, but you are free to convert your CD to MP3 for personal use.

 

Yes - there is a difference.

[Steve Long]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

Of course, one day I dream of Steve compiling them all into a new hardbound version of the main book.

 

We could call it 5ER: Power Lifter Edition

 

I've vaguely thought of trying to create something like that, at least for my own personal use. Probably have to be 6-point type and come with a magnifying glass. Or make it some sort of 2,000-page book the size of a medieval grimoire.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

5th Edition Re-Revised... now with WHEELS (because it weighs 65lbs).

[archermoo]

Re: The Ultimates Bundle

 

I've vaguely thought of trying to create something like that' date=' at least for my own personal use. Probably have to be 6-point type and come with a magnifying glass. Or make it some sort of 2,000-page book the size of a medieval grimoire.[/quote']

 

I'd buy it.

 

I know: Shock, surprise!