Power Game. Give it a try.

[GenreFiend]

Re: Re: What is 0.1c?

 

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Yes, c is the standard symbol in physics for light speed; as in Einstein's famous E = mc² formula (Energy = mass X velocity of light²).

 

Something I've always wondered: Energy measured in what and Mass measured in what? I mean, energy measured in watts to mass measured in tons in very different from enrgy measured in joules and mass measured in ounces. See what I mean?

[Guest C_Zeree]

E is measured in Joules = 1 kg*m/s^2.

M is in kilograms (kg)

c is in meters per second squared (m/s^2)

 

4.186 joules will raise 1 g of water by 1 degree Celsius.

 

Ohh I feel so dirty now, I have to wash...

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by JMHammer

2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

 

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

 

Grand Total Cost: 80

 

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels. All the character has to do is bang his head against a wall, stand in a fire, jump off some buildings, or perform some other nonsense in order to "charge up" and the charge lasts for a month! Which is plenty of time to charge up again and never lose power. Need to save points? Dump the ED Absorption and the total cost drops to a measly 40!

 

Next challenge: Build a legal but unallowable power using Entangle.

 

John H

 

Totally legal, but doesn't work. The Advantages apply to the adder as well. That's a +3 Advantage on the Absorption increase to max. Before, it was +1 point for +2 to the Absorption max. Now, it's +4 points for +2 to the Absorption max. You're maxing out at about 24 points absorped. Congrats, you just spent 80 points to give yourself +24 Str (with no figured characteristics), +12 PD, and +12 ED.

 

The infinite adjustment power trick doesn't work.

 

Here's a nasty power.

 

1D6 Energy Blast

Area Effect: One Hex (+1/2)

Personal Immunity (+1/4)

Continuous (+1)

Autofire x640 (+2 1/4), with (+1) for no normal to-hit

Zero End (+1)

No Range (-1/2)

Does no Stun (-3/4)

Reduced Penetration (-1/4)

 

Active Cost: 35 points

Real Cost: 14 points

 

It's continuous, and no range, so it's basically a damage shield that affects your whole hex. What does this power do?

 

Knockback. Every additional hit from an autofire attack adds +1 inch to the total knockback. This attack basically does 640 inches of knockback (minus 2D6, of course). It's Area Effect, so if you miss, the other hits scatter. Guess what. An attack can only scatter by half the number of hexes you fired it. Half of zero is zero. You automatically hit every time. Hope that brick who wants to punch you has a pretty good amount of KB resistance.

 

I don't have the 5th Edition book with me, but I believe those didn't have any special markings beside them. Next challenge: Hand Attack.

[Zed-F]

Re: Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by Champsguy

Knockback. Every additional hit from an autofire attack adds +1 inch to the total knockback. This attack basically does 640 inches of knockback (minus 2D6, of course). It's Area Effect, so if you miss, the other hits scatter. Guess what. An attack can only scatter by half the number of hexes you fired it. Half of zero is zero. You automatically hit every time. Hope that brick who wants to punch you has a pretty good amount of KB resistance.

 

That doesn't work either. According to the FAQ, it doesn't matter where the missed shots scatter to, they have no further effect other than to increase the size of the area hit with one single hit.

Q: If an attack has both Area Of Effect and Autofire, what happens with “missed†shots?

 

A: For multiple shots against a single target, the Attack Roll determines how many shots hit the target. The rest are considered misses and have no effect on the target. You can randomly determine the “scatter†for the missed shots, adapting the rules on 5E 248, if you want, but the target should not suffer any additional damage.

 

If attack misses entirely, make one calculation for where the shots would scatter to based on the normal rules, then apply the damage from that one attack to the affected area. The rest, again, are considered misses and have no effect on the area hit (which may or may not overlap to hit the target anyway).

 

So, you attack with your 0 range EB (you "touch" your hex) and roll your autofire attack. Since you're standing in it, it's probably DCV 0, but you still get a -2 per autofire shot to see how many times you hit. Say you're OCV 9 and you roll an 11, you will hit 5 times. All hits after that point are considered misses and can only increase the size of the area hit with a single attack, but since they can't scatter they don't do anything.

 

You could still get a fairly nasty power by building something along those lines and using sweep/rapid fire to do multiple attacks with it, but certainly not the 640x you have purchased on the power.

[GenreFiend]

Originally posted by C_Zeree

E is measured in Joules = 1 kg*m/s^2.

M is in kilograms (kg)

c is in meters per second squared (m/s^2)

 

 

Thank you! That has driven me nuts for years, and I've never been able to find anyone who knew.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Re: Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by Zed-F

That doesn't work either. According to the FAQ, it doesn't matter where the missed shots scatter to, they have no further effect other than to increase the size of the area hit with one single hit.

 

Okay. I don't read the FAQ. As far as I'm concerned, if it ain't in the 5th Edition main book, it ain't a rule. I'm not going to bother to look online to see if they've changed any rules on me.

 

Just change everything over to Damage Shield, then, instead of AE: One Hex.

 

I play 4th Edition anyway. 5th Edition sucks.

[Zed-F]

Don't think damage shield would help.

 

Q: How does Autofire interact with Damage Shield?

 

A: If a character applies Autofire to a Damage Shield, he must pay for the additional +1 Advantage, since Damage Shield doesn’t involve a normal Attack Roll. To determine how many “shots†hit, you have two options. First, you can negotiate something with the GM to establish a standard number that hit every time. Second, you can determine randomly (for example, by rolling 1d6-1, minimum of 1).

 

Since the power is not allowable to begin with, it's kind of moot asking your GM how many times you can hit out of your 640 attacks.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Zed-F

Since the power is not allowable to begin with, it's kind of moot asking your GM how many times you can hit out of your 640 attacks.

 

Sure it is. Based on the FAQ, I'll let you hit d6-1 times. Tell you what - let's be generous and make it a WHOLE d6!

 

But I would allow that power, so I guess it's outside the thread

[Broblawsky]

Actually, the absorption trick IS usable, so long as you remove the +2 5/month return rate thing - which is irrelevant, since you should be able to get virtually infinite effect from the power. Assuming you have a speed of 4, and absorption 2d6, and a wall to bang your head into, and enough PD to completely ignore the 2d6 damage you're inflicting on yourself, you can get 8d6 - 5 active points of whatever your absorption feeds per turn...which means 40d6 - 25 per minute, or 2400d6 - 1500 per hour, or 57600d6 - 36000 per day of continuous banging. A day of continuous head-banging will give you an average of 165600 active points of whatever 3 attributes you want, which should last for more than 110 hours, or roughly 4 and a half days.

[JMHammer]

Yeah, but...

 

Actually, the absorption trick IS usable, so long as you remove the +2 5/month return rate thing

 

It will still work with the +2 return rate Advantage. The dice of effect, and therefore the max points of Absorption, will just compound more slowly.

 

But it's true that the power is even more effective without the delayed return rate, given the extremely high (read: infinite) number of points it can add. I just put that mod in there to make it even more outrageous.

 

John H

[Uncle Shecky]

Re: Yeah, but...

 

Originally posted by JMHammer

It will still work with the +2 return rate Advantage. The dice of effect, and therefore the max points of Absorption, will just compound more slowly.

 

But it's true that the power is even more effective without the delayed return rate, given the extremely high (read: infinite) number of points it can add. I just put that mod in there to make it even more outrageous.

 

John H

 

I think the Munchkin King is right on this one: you get diminshing returns until it no longer works.

 

You can't raise the dice of the absorption with this feedback: with the +3 adder, it costs 20 cp per die, and you can only get 12. So raising the max is the only way to do it, but even that peters out.

 

This is how I see it:

You've got a 2d6 Absorption going to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (to raise max), with +3 in total advantages. So at first, your absorb max is 12. After you absorb 12 BODY, your new max is 18 (4 cp per +2 max, so 12 BODY will give you +6 max).

 

Now your max is 18, but you've already absorbed 12 BODY. You can absorb 6 more BODY, but at 4cp per +2 max, that only gives you a new max of 20 (with 2 cp left over).

 

Now you can only absorb 2 more BODY. Add that to the 2 cp leftover and you have +2 max, for a total of 22. And that's where it stops: 2 more BODY won't raise the max.

 

 

Ifyou take off the +2 adder for the return rate, you're only paying 2 cp per +2 max, so it will go on forever (I think); but that also only works if you raise the max, not the dice. Absorbing to the dice, even with just a +1 adder, will cost 10 cp per +1d6, so you'll only raise it 1d6 after the first 12 BODY, and nothing more (unless you get into 1/2d6s for Absorption, but even then it'll stop). You'll have a 3d6 Absorb with an 18 max, but you can only absorb 6 more BODY, and that won't raise the dice again.

 

Maybe I'm wrong (hell, I've already been wrong in this thread), but that seems to be correct to me.

[Argus]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Energy Blast 30d6.

 

Force Feild +100/+100 0 END

 

+200 PRE (and do lots pf PRE attacks)

 

Anything bought well above campaign max will be abusive and disallowed.

 

So the point of this game is to build something that is within the Campaign Max.

 

I would allow some one to have the +100 PD/ED FF at 0 end.

They couldn't do anything else and would and would get very upset when they were hit with a 6d6 NND Defense No Force Fields.

 

A.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Argus

So the point of this game is to build something that is within the Campaign Max.

 

I would allow some one to have the +100 PD/ED FF at 0 end.

They couldn't do anything else and would and would get very upset when they were hit with a 6d6 NND Defense No Force Fields.

 

A.

 

At least make the defense "Life Support" so it's not obviously targeted at him.

 

HEY - You just gave me the power!

 

Multipower (60 point base)

 

Slot 1: 6d6 NND: DEF Force Field

Slot 2: 6d6 NND: DEF not having a force field

 

COST: 72 points (ultra slots)

 

I had a player try to bring in this construct many years ago. While I considered every villain having a small force field with an 11- activation, I decided to just deny the power instead

[Broblawsky]

Cool. I'm the Munchkin King now? Well, everyone needs a title. I'd have preferred Lord of All Humans, but you gotta take what you can get.

 

In any case, my contribution to this exercise is: Change Environment (-12 OCV, 1" radius) (Megascale 1 +1/4, Personal Immunity +1/4, Only Costs END to Activate +1/4 (105 Active Points); No Range -1/2, Increased END Cost 2x -1/2, Extra Time (Delayed Segment Cannot Act) to Activate -1/4)

 

Final Cost: 47 Real Points

END Cost (Only to Activate): 21

 

This construct could represent a sort of space-warping field that makes attack nearly impossible for everyone but it's creator. In any case, it makes the base attack roll for anyone trying to hit you OCV - (DCV + 1), meaning even the most skilled opponents will have some problems with it; hell, even area-effect attacks will be nearly useless. It's relatively cheap (the operant term being relatively) and has a big impact, although it will probably piss off your friends. It works well for a master villain with space/time manipulating powers, though.

 

An alternate, less expensive Change Environment Construct should be mandatory for most mentalists: the same as above, but it inflicts a, say, -10 to ego rolls for everyone nearby - which makes breakout rolls nearly impossible and synergizes well with Suppress/Drain/Transfer EGO powers, since just managing to drain someone to 0 EGO will totally incapacitate them - they won't be able to make the EGO roll to act of their own accord or to disobey your orders. Change Environment is a yield-signed power, though (I can't remember, I don't have my book with me right now), so this might be a little out of place in this thread - effective, though.

[Zed-F]

Change Environment doesn't have a caution sign, but there's already comments in the power description about the GM strictly limiting the CV effects one can impose using it.

 

EDIT: typo

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by Broblawsky

Cool. I'm the Munchkin King now? Well, everyone needs a title. I'd have preferred Lord of All Humans, but you gotta take what you can get.

...

 

Sorry man, I was referring to Champsguy: he's worn the Munchkin King crown for a long time. (You probably haven't been on these boards long enough to know that yet.) You can proclaim yourself a Munchkin Knight or Munchkin Duke, if you'd like. Although I think I'd prefer Lord of All Humans too.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Broblawsky

In any case, my contribution to this exercise is: Change Environment (-12 OCV, 1" radius) (Megascale 1 +1/4, Personal Immunity +1/4, Only Costs END to Activate +1/4 (105 Active Points); No Range -1/2, Increased END Cost 2x -1/2, Extra Time (Delayed Segment Cannot Act) to Activate -1/4)

 

Final Cost: 47 Real Points

END Cost (Only to Activate): 21

 

Ummm...why not just buy +14 DCV, costs END to activate? Same real cost; 1/3 the END;

 

same likelihood I'd approve it... which was the point of the exercise

 

I guess the CE has the advantage of looking like it doesn't violate campaign CV restrictions.

[Broblawsky]

Actually, +14 DCV has the problem of, well, not protecting you from area-effect attacks, the bane of all speedsters and martial artists. No matter how high your DCV is, the DCV of your hex will always be three. However, if you lower your opponent's OCV, it will make it harder for them to target your hex, or any other hex, for that matter. With the previous construct, the attack roll for someone affected by the power to successfully hit a non-adjacent hex is OCV - 4.

[OddHat]

150 Darkness to Hearing , Sight , Mental , Radio , Smell/Taste and Touch Groups 2" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (150 Active Points)

 

The character creates a sphere of darkness where all perception rolls automatically fail and targetting is impossible, yet no one notices anything unusual about the area. The Character is immune. THe character is effectively fully invisible and all of the character's powers get fully invisible power effects for free, and he can only be attacked by someone with ver rare unusual senses.

 

Drop it down to:

87 Darkness to Hearing , Mental , Sight and Smell/Taste Groups 1" radius, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2)

 

And now you can have it for under 90 points.

[Argus]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

At least make the defense "Life Support" so it's not obviously targeted at him.

 

HEY - You just gave me the power!

 

Multipower (60 point base)

 

Slot 1: 6d6 NND: DEF Force Field

Slot 2: 6d6 NND: DEF not having a force field

 

COST: 72 points (ultra slots)

 

I had a player try to bring in this construct many years ago. While I considered every villain having a small force field with an 11- activation, I decided to just deny the power instead

 

I like it.

35 pts

No Will to Fight:

Drain Ego - Only vs Characters powers 1d6, Limited Power Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (+0), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Armor Piercing x1 (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Megascale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (52 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)

 

Then you add a 6d6 Mind Scan, Telepathy, and Mind Control and he rules the city. A few more points and he could rule the world.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

 

Multipower (60 point base)

 

Slot 1: 6d6 NND: DEF Force Field

Slot 2: 6d6 NND: DEF not having a force field

 

COST: 72 points (ultra slots)

 

 

You can't have a NND defined by a negative, so "not having a force field" would be illegal.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost

You can't have a NND defined by a negative, so "not having a force field" would be illegal.

 

Actually, the quote is that defenses defined by a lack of something are usually inapppropriate, not that it's illegal. With the right SFX, I might well allow "not having a force field up", but certainly not in tandem with "NND: force field"

 

BTW, "not breathing" would be another term for "LS (elf contained breathing) or holds breath", so starting with "not" clearly doesn't eliminate the power.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Actually, the quote is that defenses defined by a lack of something are usually inapppropriate, not that it's illegal. With the right SFX, I might well allow "not having a force field up", but certainly not in tandem with "NND: force field"

 

BTW, "not breathing" would be another term for "LS (elf contained breathing) or holds breath", so starting with "not" clearly doesn't eliminate the power.

Yep, and there is a certain character from Day of the Destroyer with an NND like this. Now, it may be 4th Ed. but I'm not going to throw away every "tradition" just cuz DOJ finally started printing books.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Actually, the quote is that defenses defined by a lack of something are usually inapppropriate, not that it's illegal. With the right SFX, I might well allow "not having a force field up", but certainly not in tandem with "NND: force field"

 

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't have the book in front of me.

 

BTW, "not breathing" would be another term for "LS (elf contained breathing) or holds breath", so starting with "not" clearly doesn't eliminate the power.

 

That's not what I meant, and it's not defining the NND defense by a negative. It'd defining the NND as having a quality (life support).

 

Anyway, two NNDs that compensate for each other, if not illegal by the exact wording is pretty obviously by intent.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost

Anyway, two NNDs that compensate for each other, if not illegal by the exact wording is pretty obviously by intent.

 

Which was the point of the exercise - a power which, while technically legal, clearly would never be allowed by any sane GM.