Power Game. Give it a try.

[Argus]

OK here is the deal.

Come up with a power that is perfectly legal but you would never allow someone to play.

 

I’ll go first using Duplication.

 

Example: Infinite Duplication. Cost 88 Points.

Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)

Which comes out to 88 points. Build a Duplicate that is exactly the same and have him

Spend his 88 points on, you guessed it.

Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)

 

I ran it by Steve and he said it was legal.

 

Now it is your turn build a legal power for Absorption that you would never let some one use.

 

A.

[Zed-F]

Megascale movement power, usable as attack.

 

"And then I slammed him into the wall at 0.1c."

"Ouch, that had to hurt..."

 

On a similar note, summon something which tries to ram someone, using a megascale movement power.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Zed-F

On a similar note, summon something which tries to ram someone, using a megascale movement power.

 

Well there goes my "Death of the Dinosaurs" attack.

 

1d6RKA ED Continuous Double Penetrating 0 end Vs ECV Does Body Transdimensional.

 

Heck, almost anything Transdimensional outside of a campaign with plenty of dimension jumping characters, both PC and NPC.

[JMHammer]

Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Now it is your turn build a legal power for Absorption that you would never let some one use.

 

2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

 

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

 

Grand Total Cost: 80

 

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels. All the character has to do is bang his head against a wall, stand in a fire, jump off some buildings, or perform some other nonsense in order to "charge up" and the charge lasts for a month! Which is plenty of time to charge up again and never lose power. Need to save points? Dump the ED Absorption and the total cost drops to a measly 40!

 

Next challenge: Build a legal but unallowable power using Entangle.

 

John H

[Zed-F]

1d6 Entangle, +1 DEF (Base 15), BOECV (+1), Autofire x5 (+1/2), Continuous (+1), 0 END (+1), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Fully Invisible including Effects of Power (+2), Sticky (+1/2), Time Delay (+1/4), Cannot be escaped with teleport (+1/4).

 

120 Active points. Flavour with your favourite limitations (e.g extra time: 1 week, -4 1/2) to reduce the real cost. You could also use Extra Time instead of Time Delay to mimic the onset time.

 

Effect: A mental paralysis virus, with a morphology that is the CDC's worst nightmare. Spreads by simple contact, delayed onset of symptoms, effectively causes brain death. The uncontrolled autofire attack will effectively build up body in the mental paralysis indefinitely -- once it reaches the victim's EGO + 30, I'd consider the victim dead. This kind of virus if allowed to spread unchecked, could kill 90+% of the earth's population.

 

Bonus: Uncontrolled Missle Reflection, at any target, at range, IPE: IEOP.

 

Anything with continuous/uncontrolled and 0 END can potentially be abusive. IPE is another one to watch.

 

Next challenge: Images. And no Megascale.

[JmOz]

Re: Power Game. Give it a try.

 

Originally posted by Argus

OK here is the deal.

Come up with a power that is perfectly legal but you would never allow someone to play.

 

I’ll go first using Duplication.

 

Example: Infinite Duplication. Cost 88 Points.

Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)

Which comes out to 88 points. Build a Duplicate that is exactly the same and have him

Spend his 88 points on, you guessed it.

Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)

 

I ran it by Steve and he said it was legal.

 

Now it is your turn build a legal power for Absorption that you would never let some one use.

 

A.

 

Power is illegal.

 

25% of 350 is 75, you need 50% making it a +1/2 advantage, totaling 105.

 

Okay I'll think of some later...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Sorry...I'm too tired right now to tackle the 'Images' one, but I need to comment about the 'Sticky' part of the above construct. I used to model contageous diseases just that way, until I happened to think about the same sort of situation with something like clinging napalm. When I asked Steve about how you'd keep the entire population of the world from going up in smoke, he ruled that in the case of 'Sticky', it will spread from the original target to anyone who touches them, but WON'T spread from those secondary sufferers.

 

In other words:

 

A is hit with a 'Sticky' power. B, C, D all touch A. B, C, and D are now affected by the power. E and F touch C; E and F remain unaffected.

 

When I said that would make modeling infectious diseases impossible that way, Steve replied that infectious diseases should be done using Transform (into sufferer of the disease who also has the Transform others into disease sufferers).

[Dino]

most bang for your buck:

 

Simulate Death talent, Usable as Attack (+1). For 6 active points you can put anyone to sleep with no defense (assuming you make your ego roll).

[Vondy]

X-Dim Movement, Ranged, Usable As Attack

 

Quote: "Go to Hell."

[Argus]

Re: Re: Power Game. Give it a try.

 

Originally posted by JmOz

Power is illegal.

 

25% of 350 is 75, you need 50% making it a +1/2 advantage, totaling 105.

 

Okay I'll think of some later...

 

Using my calcuator 350 * .25 = 87.5 or (88)

[JmOz]

That's what I get for posting at 12:30 in the AM, sorry about that

[Argus]

Originally posted by JmOz

That's what I get for posting at 12:30 in the AM, sorry about that

 

Not a problem.

I don't like making mistakes.

 

A.

[Agent X]

Another duplication trick. Buy Duplication x16 to make identical copies of the original. All buy 5 strength, 3 dex, 5/5 armor, and 5 mental defense usable by others. The original buys an absorption that feeds into the usable by others advantage and into the duplication. The copies doe the same with the twist that their absorption feeds into the usable by others and the original's duplication. Before you know it, Grond is facing 33 versions of my character, Infinite Miss, who at that point has a 185 strength, 119 dex, 170/170 pd/ed with 165 resistant pd/ed, and 165 mental defense. Sadly, they only have a 4 speed.

 

I recently built Infinite Miss as a follower. I was going with the concept and was trying to build the character where it would be balanced. Didn't work. She's just too mighty so she has simply become a conversation piece.

[Zed-F]

Duplication is an exclamation mark power for a reason.

 

Here's another challenge, if you don't like the images one: something that uses no stop sign or exclamation mark powers or advantages.

[Uncle Shecky]

Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by JMHammer

2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

 

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

 

Grand Total Cost: 80

 

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels. All the character has to do is bang his head against a wall, stand in a fire, jump off some buildings, or perform some other nonsense in order to "charge up" and the charge lasts for a month! Which is plenty of time to charge up again and never lose power.

...

John H

 

Damn, that's clever. I couldn't believe this power was legal, but I couldn't find anything in FREd that explicitly forbids it.

 

There's a bit in the Rules FAQ that warns about it, but it is only a warning:

 

From the Rules FAQ:

Q: Can Absorption, Aid, or Transfer specify that some or all of the Character Points received go to improve the effectiveness of the Adjustment Power itself?

 

A: At the GM’s discretion, yes. However, the GM should watch over such powers carefully, and be prepared to forbid them or require the player to revise them, if they prove to have too unbalancing an effect on the game.

 

As a GM, I would rule that the maximum you could raise the Absorption would be the original maximum, so you could turn your 2d6 into a 4d6 Absorption, and give yourself a max of 24 points for STR, PD, and ED (though PD and ED would be halved), but no more than a 12 max for the Absorption. That rule seems arbitrary to me though (and it makes the power construction a little pointless, although it might be a cheaper way to increase the max): If it increases the max for STR, PD, and ED, it should increase the max for Absorption too. I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by Dr. Anomaly

When I said that would make modeling infectious diseases impossible that way, Steve replied that infectious diseases should be done using Transform (into sufferer of the disease who also has the Transform others into disease sufferers).

 

Fair enough. The point was to build something using entangle though. It probably would be more cost-effective to use transform in any case.

[Zed-F]

Re: Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky

I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

Simple. Explain to him that unbalanced powers are not allowed. If he insists on it, you can always tell him that turnabout is fair play, and search the boards for even more unbalanced opponents (like Infinite Miss) or unbalanced attacks (I don't care what your PD is, 0.1c into a wall is DEAD) to throw at him.

 

After all, there's broken, and then there's BROKEN.

[OddHat]

Re: Re: Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by Zed-F

Simple. Explain to him that unbalanced powers are not allowed. If he insists on it, you can always tell him that turnabout is fair play, and search the boards for even more unbalanced opponents (like Infinite Miss) or unbalanced attacks (I don't care what your PD is, 0.1c into a wall is DEAD) to throw at him.

 

After all, there's broken, and then there's BROKEN.

 

Quite right. If he's reasonable he'll understand; If he's actively trying to be disruptive, don't invite him to the next game session.

 

At a pick up game, have a brick with shrinking down to the subatomic level fly into his brain and then start growing (Transdimensional Indirect Continuous HKA NND does body plus some levels to offset hit location penalties, or at that point just hand-wave it).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky

As a GM, I would rule that the maximum you could raise the Absorption would be the original maximum, so you could turn your 2d6 into a 4d6 Absorption, and give yourself a max of 24 points for STR, PD, and ED (though PD and ED would be halved), but no more than a 12 max for the Absorption. That rule seems arbitrary to me though (and it makes the power construction a little pointless, although it might be a cheaper way to increase the max): If it increases the max for STR, PD, and ED, it should increase the max for Absorption too. I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

 

You don't absorb to Dice - you absorb to Max Points. So, for example, 2d6 Absorb, half to STR and half to Absorb Max. I absorb 6 points - 3 goes to STR and 3 increases my max absorb by 6 (3 each to STR and Absorb). Might just as well call "no maximum" a +1 advantage.

 

I'd allow this, but not the huge delayed fade rate.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Zed-F

Here's another challenge, if you don't like the images one: something that uses no stop sign or exclamation mark powers or advantages.

 

Energy Blast 30d6.

 

Force Feild +100/+100 0 END

 

+200 PRE (and do lots pf PRE attacks)

 

Anything bought well above campaign max will be abusive and disallowed.

[JMHammer]

Just don't allow it

 

I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

 

Well, as much as a GM should avoid draconian or "Just 'cause I says so!" rulings, you don't necessarily have to convince a player that something isn't permissable in your game. Pretty much anything a player can come up with that creates an infinite-loop situation, has no common or at least obvious defense or vulnerability, or is otherwise a fairly obvious power-gaming abuse of the rules should just be ruled ineligible for your game.

 

That's also the point of this thread, I think: Legal - yet hopefully interesting - power constructs that a GM oughtn't allow in a game.

 

There are a good number of characters in fiction that, in any game terms, are simply too powerful to permit an accurate rendering of those powers within a game for control by a player. I recall running a series of adventures in Piers Anthony's world of Xanth a good many years ago. (Don't mock me too harshly; the first four books were good...) Modeling Bink was pretty easy, but it wasn't possible to allow a player to control that character. His power, "Cannot be harmed, directly or indirectly, by magic; cannot suffer permanent harm from anything; amazing good luck; no conscious control on any of this; power protects itself from discovery by acting through seeming coincidence," may sound boring to play. Compared to Trent (transform any animal - including humans and "magical" animals - into any other animal), Dor (impart personalities to non-living things and give them the power of human speech; no conscious control over the ascribed personalities), or Smash the Ogre (typical strength, toughness, etc.), it IS boring. But except for GM fiat in service of plot, the character of Bink is immune to everything and to some extent that immunity is shared by his entire family and anyone else he cares about. Made for great fiction, especially in the first two books of the series whose plots, for all intents and purposes, were driven by this amazing luck power; but was absolutely awful for the game.

 

John H

[John515]

What is 0.1c?

 

Is 0.1c equal to 1/10 the speed of light?

[Trebuchet]

Re: What is 0.1c?

 

Originally posted by John515

Is 0.1c equal to 1/10 the speed of light?

Yes, c is the standard symbol in physics for light speed; as in Einstein's famous E = mc² formula (Energy = mass X velocity of light²).

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by Zed-F

Here's another challenge, if you don't like the images one: something that uses no stop sign or exclamation mark powers or advantages.

 

8D6 Ranged Killing Attack, Explosion, x4 Radius

-0 Limitation: Only affects bad people

Detect Bad 18 or less, Ranged

-1/2 Limitation: Detect only works on power

 

"Don't you know that the smart bombs are so clever, they only kill bad people." - Oingo Boingo, War Again

[Uncle Shecky]

Re: Re: Re: Almost anything that loops is a problem

 

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

You don't absorb to Dice - you absorb to Max Points. So, for example, 2d6 Absorb, half to STR and half to Absorb Max. I absorb 6 points - 3 goes to STR and 3 increases my max absorb by 6 (3 each to STR and Absorb). Might just as well call "no maximum" a +1 advantage.

...

 

Yeah I get it. I misread p. 73 as 2 cp for +1 max (which would be a rip-off), so I thought it was a better deal to raise the dice. It isn't.

 

Also, since this power has a total +3 advantage, if it did absorb to the dice of the Absorption, it wouldn't work. At +3 advantage, it would take 20 cp to give +1d6 Absorption. So raising the max is the only way to do it.