Eodin Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Example 1: Spell of Thorny Roots. The initial attack is a TK grab (roots grabbing and holding victim), next phase the roots stab the target with razor-sharp thorns (HKA), third phase the roots pull the target partially in the ground (Entangle) and disappear. Once the spell is cast, the sequence occurs without control by the mage. Example 2: Psionic Power - Mind Rake. The initial attack is an Ego Blast (strikes victim's mind), followed by an Ego Drain (rakes through injured mind) on the second phase, followed by 1 phase of Telepathy to read the "conditioned" mind. There are times when a power or spell has a programmed sequence of effects, which once started are not directed/controlled by the individual, and it's not always obvious the best way to make that happen. So thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Sounds like a job for the Linked & Gradual Effect Limitations. I would create each effect as a Compound Power with the 2nd component Linked to the first, 3rd Linked to the 2nd, etc... . Then take the Gradual Effect Limitation on the entire construct defined by your sequence description examples. This approach negates the need for Advantages like Uncontrolled since all the powers are actually being directed by their owner in a single Phase's action. They just happen to require a specific sequence and minimum time to complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Instead of Gradual Effect, I would use Delayed Effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Delayed Effect is an Advantage that lets you activate a power at will sometime after going through the activation step, but you still have to go through the steps of picking a target and rolling your attack and all that. I'd go with Gradual Effect too I think. It's just not all that "gradual" in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Maybe linked w/ trigger (Activates 1 round after attack, 2 rounds after attack etc) that or buy them as partially limited uncotrolled continuous (Continuous but doesn't begin effect for X rounds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Sorry - nothing to do with the actual question but the original post got me thinking: if (as I have on numerous occasions) you build an entangle with a linked continuous damaging power (the entangle crushes you or wraps you in barbed wire or coats you in ice and you slowly freeze) do you apply the damage from the linked damaging power to the entangle first i.e. does the entangle act as a defence? I suppose you'd have to, applying the rules. Seems counter-intuitive though , and the alternative looks much more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Sorry - nothing to do with the actual question but the original post got me thinking: if (as I have on numerous occasions) you build an entangle with a linked continuous damaging power (the entangle crushes you or wraps you in barbed wire or coats you in ice and you slowly freeze) do you apply the damage from the linked damaging power to the entangle first i.e. does the entangle act as a defence? I suppose you'd have to' date=' applying the rules. Seems counter-intuitive though , and the alternative looks much more expensive.[/quote'] Personally I would have the power affect the person and the entangle - the barbed wire is stretched and possible broken as it pulls tight whereas the ice melts as it cools the victim down. I would charge double for the entangle - the victim is hit automatically and that is worth a +1 at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Delayed Effect is an Advantage that lets you activate a power at will sometime after going through the activation step' date=' but you still have to go through the steps of picking a target and rolling your attack and all that. I'd go with Gradual Effect too I think. It's just not all [i']that[/i] "gradual" in this case. Yeah, after looking at the rules for Gradual Effect I'd probably make it a (-0) Limitation and just make the extra Phases be flavor of the Linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Maybe an Uncontrolled Multipower? So for Thorny Roots, the first slot is TK, the second HKA, the third Entangle. Make it Uncontrolled and throw enough END in it to power three uses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Sounds like a job for the Linked & Gradual Effect Limitations. I would create each effect as a Compound Power with the 2nd component Linked to the first, 3rd Linked to the 2nd, etc... . Then take the Gradual Effect Limitation on the entire construct defined by your sequence description examples. This approach negates the need for Advantages like Uncontrolled since all the powers are actually being directed by their owner in a single Phase's action. They just happen to require a specific sequence and minimum time to complete. Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkham Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects I would just use Extra Time and have both additional powers linked to the first. Thorny roots: 20 STR TK, plus 2d6 RKA Extra time: 1 phase linked to TK, plus 3d6 Entangle Extra time: 2 phases, linked to TK. This way it all requires one roll, and if the TK is doesn't hold them or is broken, then the other effects fail as well. I don't recall offhand if there is a level of Extra Time for 2 phases. If not, just cost it the same as 1 phrase. ( Personally, I would just use Entangle + RKA with the Entangle having Does not protect against some types of attacks +1/4. The sinking into the ground is just a special effect of remaining entangled. ) The 2nd example is trickier as you technically cannot use linked or MPA attacks affect lowered stats from other attacks in the same MPA. The Telepathy should then be a Trigger that activates one phase after the 'Raking' Ego drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects re: Extra Time The original request was - Once the spell is cast, the sequence occurs without control by the mage. - essentially making the entire construct a fire-and-forget attack. Extra Time actually increases the time taken by the mage for the entire casting process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Hrm. Interesting (he said, pondering). Lemme see here. Well, one, I'd call this a Compound Power. I know that might sound obvious, but I like to start simple. Compound Power allows the inclusion of all the requisite effects to make this happen, so that's critical. Within said Compound Power, all other powers are Linked; specifically, they're linked to the power before them. Then, each power picks up Extra Time and Trigger; the Extra Time defines when it executes in relation to the prior piece, and the Trigger (which would be required, much like the Needler from H:CE) would be required for the next piece to go off without user involvement, replacing Uncontrolled. Since it's Linked, and Triggered, if one part misses, the requirements for the Trigger cannot be met. However, as this is a Compound Power, all END must be spent at the time of casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkham Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects re: Extra Time The original request was - - essentially making the entire construct a fire-and-forget attack. Extra Time actually increases the time taken by the mage for the entire casting process. I seem to recall Extra Time having an additional -1/4 if the character can perform no other actions, but that isn't the default that I am aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects Sorry - nothing to do with the actual question but the original post got me thinking: if (as I have on numerous occasions) you build an entangle with a linked continuous damaging power (the entangle crushes you or wraps you in barbed wire or coats you in ice and you slowly freeze) do you apply the damage from the linked damaging power to the entangle first i.e. does the entangle act as a defence? I suppose you'd have to' date=' applying the rules. Seems counter-intuitive though , and the alternative looks much more expensive.[/quote'] This is where Gradual Effect on a damage sort of comes into its own. You shoot the entangle and its linked EB, and you say 'you take X damage over Y period of time'. If they break free of the entangle, the EB ends; no more gradual effect damage. Otherwise, they take damage. Even better -- uncontrolled gradual effect. Also, you could have a naked 'transparent to attacks' modifier for the entangle, limited only to your EB's SFX. Yeah, it COULD be expensive, but hell, you're sticking 'em in a block of ice and wanting to freeze 'em to death, it SHOULD be expensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Re: How Would You Build: Sequenced Effects I seem to recall Extra Time having an additional -1/4 if the character can perform no other actions' date=' but that isn't the default that I am aware of.[/quote'] Can perform no other actions is an option for the Concentration Limitaton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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