Sword MA and question.

[paladin.oa]

I'm going to be playing in a campaign where my character uses a BFS (think BFG except S instead of G), and I want my character to have more than a few martial maneuvers for it. I was thinking something along the lines of Nightmare from Soul Calibur, so these are the maneuvers that I had in mind;

 

Horizontel Slash: best defense and offense, low damage

 

Vertical Slash: Middle of the road all round

 

Thrust: Low offense and defense, high damage

 

Throw: Use sword to throw an enemy

 

Block: just a block

 

Parry: Just a parry

 

Counter: High damage counter attack to use after parrying an enemies attack

 

Think I'm missing anything, and how would these be written up?

 

Also, can a magic sword built as a follower have it's DEX useable by other so that the owner can use that DEX as it's own and have it affect his ACV, DCV, and Speed?

[Curufea]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

If we go by Guts in Berserker - you could have a shieldbreaker attack as well - vast overhead, full phase, HKA vs inanimate objects. Although with Guts, he usually went all the way through a person as well as their shield.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

I would use MArtial Maneuvers

 

Some ideas-

Hor Slash: Defensive Strike

Ver Slash: Basic Strike

Throw: Martial Throw

Throw: Offensive Strike

Block: Martial Block

Parry: Defensive Block

Counter: Counterstrike

 

add Usable By Others to the follower's DEX Score.

[paladin.oa]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Thanks guys!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

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Bladesman

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

I'm going to be playing in a campaign where my character uses a BFS (think BFG except S instead of G)' date=' and I want my character to have more than a few martial maneuvers for it. I was thinking something along the lines of Nightmare from Soul Calibur, so these are the maneuvers that I had in mind;[/quote']

 

I tend to call guns "BFG" and swords "BAS" (Big *** Sword)

 

 

Horizontel Slash: best defense and offense, low damage

 

You want Defensive Strike for this maneuver. Gives +1 OCV, +3 DCV bonuses with no damage add. Costs 5pts.

 

Vertical Slash: Middle of the road all round

 

Best one for this is Fast Strike. Gives +2 OCV bonus, no DCV bonus or penalty and a +1 Damage class bonus. (+2D6N)

 

Thrust: Low offense and defense, high damage

 

Sacrifice Strike is good for this one. +1 OCV bonus, -2DCV penalty for +2 Damage class bonus (+4D6N)

 

Throw: Use sword to throw an enemy

 

For this, I would use Takedown. +1 OCV, +1 DCV no damage bonus but target is knocked down. Only costs 3pts. Very efficient for the cost. I had a player in one of my games use this one for his Samurai character. Basically his character would use an Iaijutsu move but instead of drawing and striking with the blade, he would draw his sword and strike them with the butt of the hilt with enough force to send them sprawling. Good stuff.

 

Block: just a block

 

Martial Block for this one. One of the best maneuvers in the game, hands down. +2 OCV, +2 DCV and blocks the attack.

 

Parry: Just a parry

 

Use Defensive Block for this one. Only adds +1 to the OCV so its inferior to Martial Block for the active roll...however, it adds +3 to the characters DCV, so it is superior for facing off against multiple attackers and simply makes the character harder to hit in general.

 

Counter: High damage counter attack to use after parrying an enemies attack

 

This one is easy: Counterstrike. One of the most efficient Martial Maneuvers in the UMA (Ultimate Martial Artist) for a mere 4pts you get +2 to OCV and +2 to DCV and +1 Damage Class bonus! Its weakness is that it can only be used after a successful block, but thats exactly what you wanted anyway, isn't it?

 

Think I'm missing anything, and how would these be written up?

 

You need a Disarm move (Martial Disarm adds +10 to STR rolls to disarm your opponents) a Blade lock move (Bind: adds +10STR to keep the opponents weapon locked in place) and a moving strike (Passing Strike, adds the characters Velocity/5 as a bonus to damage)

 

Also, can a magic sword built as a follower have it's DEX useable by other so that the owner can use that DEX as it's own and have it affect his ACV, DCV, and Speed?

 

Yes. Yes you can.

 

Just make sure you build the magic swords Dex as Usable by Others and you should be good to go. That same advantage applies to any other powers you want the wielder to be able to control. Powers under the control of the sword itself (i.e. the wielder can't activate them, the sword has to) don't take the advantage.

[Kristopher]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

For this' date=' I would use Takedown. +1 OCV, +1 DCV no damage bonus but target is knocked down. Only costs 3pts. Very efficient for the cost. I had a player in one of my games use this one for his Samurai character. Basically his character would use an Iaijutsu move but instead of drawing and striking with the blade, he would draw his sword and strike them with the butt of the hilt with enough force to send them sprawling. Good stuff.[/quote']

 

Very good stuff, great imagery for that move.

 

This one is easy: Counterstrike. One of the most efficient Martial Maneuvers in the UMA (Ultimate Martial Artist) for a mere 4pts you get +2 to OCV and +2 to DCV and +1 Damage Class bonus! Its weakness is that it can only be used after a successful block' date=' but thats exactly what you wanted anyway, isn't it[/quote']

 

One of my favorite UMA moves, and very appropriate for any fighting style that "uses an opponent's power/aggression/attack against him". Other favorites along those lines are Grappling Block and Weapon Bind... I wonder if Weapon Bind can be used in the same way a block maneuver is.

[Alibear]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Bind doesn't have an abort part but you could wait and interupt the attack.

[Kristopher]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Bind doesn't have an abort part but you could wait and interupt the attack.

 

Then we add one using the UMA rules and come up with a new maneuver!

[L. Marcus]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Defensive Bind -- +2 OCV; +2 DCV; Bind, +10 to STR, Must follow Block -- 5 points

[DusterBoy]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Isn't there a Swordfighting martial art in Fantasy Hero espcially for characters like that?

[Alibear]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Then we add one using the UMA rules and come up with a new maneuver!

 

Still can't legally add abort to Bind maneuver. Still for 10 points you could buy 5 skill levels in interrupt. Bind becomes so much more useful then.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Isn't there a Swordfighting martial art in Fantasy Hero espcially for characters like that?

 

 

Yes, but players should also be encouraged to come up with their own unique styles. Stuff like the Swordfighting Art in Fantasy Hero should be seen as examples on how to get started, not as hard rules such as "If you want to fight with the sword, take this specific martial art here". Seems somewhat limiting.

[paladin.oa]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Yes' date=' but players should also be encouraged to come up with their own unique styles. Stuff like the Swordfighting Art in Fantasy Hero should be seen as [i']examples[/i] on how to get started, not as hard rules such as "If you want to fight with the sword, take this specific martial art here". Seems somewhat limiting.

 

Don't suppose someone could post that move set here, that would be a good starter point, or at least somewhere that I can estimate how many points I'm going to spend.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

The Sword Fighting Art from Fantasy Hero is 8 Martial Maneuvers costing in at 33 Points, plus a KS, and a WF: Offhand for another 4 Points (WF: Blades is free with the art).

 

For a fully fledged Martial Art, a good estimate is from 25-50 Points depending on just exactly how much you put into it once all is said and done.

 

One of my Fantasy Characters I developed an Art for spent 28 Points on Maneuvers plus a good healthy dose more on non-Maneuver but Combat Related aspects.

[paladin.oa]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

So how many points should I use right from the get go? Also, what sort of moves would be critical, and what others could I get via experience?

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

really depends upon your POV.

 

If you want to be SERIOUS about martial arts yeah 20-50 points isn't too silly.

 

If you want to have other things then go for 15-20+

[Kristopher]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Still can't legally add abort to Bind maneuver. Still for 10 points you could buy 5 skill levels in interrupt. Bind becomes so much more useful then.

 

Why isn't it legal? There's a maneuver that lets you abort to block against an unarmed attack, and grapple the attacker automatically if you beat his attack roll -- Grappling Block, which has Block and Grab One Limb elements.

 

I'll have to read through UMA again, it's been a long time.

 

EDIT: Ah, Exclusive Basis. Hrm. Given the existence of Grappling Block, I'd make an exception.

[Alibear]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

As I'm at work and without having my books I seem to recall that the exotic blocks had no abort maneuver.

 

The fact that you can only abort to defensive actions is a pretty big part of The Hero system.

 

As I said waiting and skill levels in abort will get you the same effect.

[Markdoc]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

The other option - especially for fantasy martial arts, whether Wuxia or Western - is to build the maneuvers as powers. You don't have a problem with maneuvers like an "aborting bind" then. You build it as a triggered "attack" (a Bind is esentially a grab)

 

Thus:

Binding Block: +10 STR (for bind only, -1), +1 OCV, trigger: incoming attack. 20 active points (since there are two "invisible" levels in OCV to counter the grab penalty). And since it doesn't use an action once the trigger is set, you can do a combined "Grab and hit" maneuver where you grab your opponent's weapon arm and then kick him. You need GM's permission to stick it into a multipower (because of the levels), but that should not be too difficult.

 

If you want to use it only with weapons, the math is slightly different because only 5 point levels can be limited. In that case the active cost is 25 points, but you can take a -1/2 limitation (Weapon of opportunity), which brings it down to 17 points real cost.

[Alibear]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Clever.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Why isn't it legal? There's a maneuver that lets you abort to block against an unarmed attack, and grapple the attacker automatically if you beat his attack roll -- Grappling Block, which has Block and Grab One Limb elements.

 

I'll have to read through UMA again, it's been a long time.

 

EDIT: Ah, Exclusive Basis. Hrm. Given the existence of Grappling Block, I'd make an exception.

 

You cannot abort with Grappling Block or Defensive Throw (which is a Block, Throw combo), you have to have a saved action to use either, so there's no justification for an exception.

 

More importantly, it should also be noted that Bind is not a Block maneuver anyway so aborting to it would be pointless. You spend a phase to bind the enemies weapon so they can't use it, it's preventative, not a defense.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

You can abort with a Grappling Block, but only for the Block portion. The Block element comes with a bundled Abort, whether its listed or not. It's also mispriced (probably). Check these two posts:

 

HERO System 5th Edition Rules Q / A

HERO System 5th Edition Rules Q / A Followup

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

My mistake. That doesn't, however, change the fact that you can't "abort to Grapple" which is what he was using to make the exception for "abort to Bind". Correct? Or am I way off base? I note you didn't comment on what I said about Bind not being a defensive action. I'll assume that means I'm reading the book correctly.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sword MA and question.

 

Don't suppose someone could post that move set here' date=' that would be a good starter point, or at least somewhere that I can estimate how many points I'm going to spend.[/quote']

 

No, that would be violating HERO Games IP's -- they need people to buy the books they print, so its kind of frowned on for us to just cherry pick pieces and post them online.

 

 

However, that being said, characters perforce must have their abilities listed, which includes the cost and stat lines of Maneuvers sans any description or rules clarifications. By looking at characters with Maneuvers you can derive the effect and cost for said Maneuvers and use them on your characters. I posted a bunch of weapon based characters w/ Martial Maneuvers in a previous post, for instance, from which Maneuvers and other abilities can be easily culled.

 

 

Also, as others have said, any package or bundle of abilities presented in any book are merely examples and are not set in stone or represent "the one way to do this". There is no one "sword art"; just about any collection of Maneuvers you care to generate could be incorporated into a "sword art" and be equally valid (though obviously an all defensive or all grappling set (etc) would require more conceptualization and explanation that a strike / block oriented set). You are entirely free to express your creativity and define the concept as you see fit.

 

 

These two package deals on my site are very flexible and list a number of Maneuvers that are very useful to a sword oriented art; you may want to check them out:

 

Bladesman

Swashbuckler

 

 

Also, it should be pointed out (if it hasn't already), that you don't actually need Martial Maneuvers to define a "martial art" or fighting style. You can also just buy a lot of CSL's and be done with it. You can also buy an extra damage capability such as Deadly Blow, and / or abilities with OIF "Weapon of Opportunity, and so forth. The SFX of "Awesome Fighting Tricks" is definable in a lot of different ways, exclusively and in combination.

 

A lot of different ways to build a "fighter" in HERO terms are presented in this document:

 

Fighters

 

including a Hack and Slash Weapon Art:

 

WEAPON SPECIALIZATION AS WEAPON ART

Hack & Slash Weapon Art (Weapon Based)

5 Hack & Slash 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, Weapon +4 DC Strike

5 Back & Slash 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +3 DCV, Weapon Strike

4 Parry 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

4 Disarm 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; +10 STR to Disarm roll

4 Blade Bind 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, Bind, +10 STR

4 Escape Bind var Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR to escape Bind

4 Slash-back 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Weapon +2 DC Strike, Must Follow Block

4 Ward off 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

0 Weapon Element Weapon of Choice

2 PS: Weapon Master

2 KS: Hack & Slash Style

Real Cost: 38 points