Hero Version of The Everyman

[LA Singletary]

Nope this is not a shape shifting duplicating man (Though that is an idea worth exploring)

 

I have always wondered how to classify regular people in the Hero system. I know their are guidelines but it always seemed a bit shallow to me for certain skilled individual.

 

I always wanted to see people's thoughts on creating... say a Football Player. Then I wanted to see a break down by position ie Lineman, Quaterback, & Place Kicker. Then I am curious what are the differences between the High School Versions, College Versions, and Pros.

 

You could take this approach with a couple of different sports.

 

I also wanted to know the diffeence between the small town cop, a big city detective and a newbie FBI grad. What about that rockstar FBI guy?

 

Often I see people putting their characters up for review and I notice things like Strength 15 for these supposedley not uber buffed character concepts and I think to myself. "Doesn't that put his character in the Olympic Weight Lifter range"

 

I run into the same concerns when I look at intellect scores, I have heard that the average American IQ ranges from 92-100. Now I think we all know that their are many different ways to supposedly test inteligence or cognitive skills and this could spark a debate unto itself but again I see a fair share of minmaxing over this stat & DEX because people do not want to miss those crucial roles.

 

I am interested to see how we quantify the intellect score as it relates to historic figrures and for that matter how discipline/skill master is quantified.

 

I am asking for a kind of well thought out yard stick by which to to measure a character. I think this would especially be helpful for lower leveled campaigns.

 

(I will not be at all suprised that this forum has already intertained this notion and eagerly await kind nudge in the right direction in the form of a hyperlink)

 

Thanks much

 

Lauren A. Singletary

[Lucius]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Well, first of all, the most objectively measurable characteristic is STR. Beyond that one, it gets harder to benchmark.

 

Take INT. You're equating it to IQ which is an obvious thing to do; but an earlier version of the system specifically said "A Nobel prize winning scientist might have an INT of 10 and very high Science skills and be a slow methodical thinker." INT in Hero terms has always had as much to do with alertness, perceptiveness, and the ability to think and come to conclusions quickly, as it does to cognitive clarity, memory, or learning ability - maybe more.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Would the palindromedary buy INT twice?

[Clonus]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Nope this is not a shape shifting duplicating man (Though that is an idea worth exploring)

 

I have always wondered how to classify regular people in the Hero system.

 

Hero is not the greatest system with which to classify regular people. You run into granularity issues.

[LA Singletary]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Lucius,

 

I certainly get your meaning. There are certainly different facets to intellect and how it is utilized. There are concepts out there trying to account for Emotional Intelligence (higher degrees of empathy) and Athletic Intelligence (The Naturals of the world)

 

And there is no end all be all quantifiable measurement of Intelligence IRL but thats why I wanted to know how people make those interpretations.

 

Certainly Frank Abagnale Jr the famed con man who inspired "Catch Me If You Can" is a highly intelligent person. He was quick on his feet, alert and able to adapt. He certainly had some "points" in a number of skils.

 

Albert Einstein is certainly considered one of the greatest minds of the 20th century. He had a differnt type of intellect and he spent his "points" differently and applied his mental prowess in different ways than Frank.

 

It seems to me that Noble prize winners are tenacious and they pay attention to every detail of their work.

 

I would still like to see how you construct these differing types of intelligent people.

 

Whats the difference between the brillian Lawyer and the Brillian Programmer. Lots of that has to do with skill focuses, talents.

 

I come from the school of your build should support your concept. But I also like knowing when is someone a good athlete and when are they are considered the greatest.

 

Whose a a good marksman and whose a legendary marksman and whats the difference.

 

STR is easy, now what about CON, Body, REC, Speed Running and Jumping.

 

What's the diff between a Golden Gloves Boxer, Olympic Boxer, and a famed Prize Fighter?

 

Thanks for responding to my ramblings and musing Lucius,

 

-Lauren A. Singletary

[LA Singletary]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Hero is not the greatest system with which to classify regular people. You run into granularity issues.

 

Clonus,

 

I see your point. And I know that I do not play HERO to play a regular guy. I have pushed the bar a lil bit on previous campaigns I have run fleshing out "typical" people when it comes to skills and characteristics. Eventually you just have to let certain things go.

 

I find that the devil is the detail of a good concept and character and with some thoughtfulness that can be displayed on a character sheet with care...but not at the sacrafice of fun.

 

Thanks for the input Clonus,

 

Lauren A. Singletary

[LA Singletary]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

"Holey Rusted Metal Batman!!"

 

There is an Everyman Book for HERO. This may indeed answer many of my questions. Time to spend some well earned gift certificates online. This may well answer many of my nagging questions.

 

Can anyone recommend the book?

 

Lauren A. Singletary

 

(Special thanks go out to Nato and His Squidoo Lens on HERO)

[bubba smith]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

the athlete package deal from pulp hero might suffice to make a normal athlete

[Alibear]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

PD is the other stat we can quantify, I think.

 

We know what damage a fall does. We know what damage a baseball bat does. We know what damage a gun does.

 

for example: A baseball bat swung at someone does somewhere in the 3-4d6 damage range depending on strength. It would seem reasonable that if someone could whack you as hard as they could and you didn't need a trip to ER then you have at least 4 PD. If you do need a trip to the local hospital then you might have only 2 pd.

 

Does that make sense?

[Zed-F]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

I'd call a baseball bat a +3d6 or +4d6 HA myself, making it a 5d6-6d6 attack when wielded with 10 STR.

[Alibear]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

No Str min? I'd call it 3d6N str min 8, myself.

[Zed-F]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Well it depends on whether you're doing it in a superheroic setting or a heroic setting, I suppose. Usually in supers settings there are no STR minima.

[Alibear]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

If you pay for you weapons with Character Points you can do what you like.

 

As soon as A Normal picks up a weapon off the rack and pays cash money instead of Character points he should be governed by the real weapon limitation, str min, charges etc.

[Zed-F]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

If you want to bother keeping track of all that stuff for a normal with a bat in a supers game, go for it.

[Alibear]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

I don't need to keep track of it. I know it without looking at the rules.

[LA Singletary]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Alibear,

 

How Much PD does a pro boxer need?

 

In my mind the typical Heavy Weight Boxer would be STR 12-15 (at the upmost) based on that I can pick this thing up and take one step.

 

I think perhaps once in my life when I was younger, working out and playing ball I would have maxed at an STR 12.

 

So that means I punch with a 2d6 cool. I have no martial training when it comes to fighting, but a Boxer does. So he purchases X martial arts skills and possibly some damage classes as well.

 

What do you need to go round after round?

 

And thank you for the response to my query!

 

Lauren A. Singletary

[bubba smith]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Alibear,

 

How Much PD does a pro boxer need?

 

In my mind the typical Heavy Weight Boxer would be STR 12-15 (at the upmost) based on that I can pick this thing up and take one step.

 

I think perhaps once in my life when I was younger, working out and playing ball I would have maxed at an STR 12.

 

So that means I punch with a 2d6 cool. I have no martial training when it comes to fighting, but a Boxer does. So he purchases X martial arts skills and possibly some damage classes as well.

 

What do you need to go round after round?

 

And thank you for the response to my query!

 

Lauren A. Singletary

strength ,endurance speed an some combat luck

[Korvar]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

strength ' date='endurance speed an some combat luck[/quote']

 

Unless boxing involves more Killing Attacks than I recall, I wouldn't think Combat Luck would be all that necessary.

[Alibear]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

This is my opinion only but I doubt if anyone alive has more than 3 pd. Nobody can leap off tall buildings without messing themselves up. 8 pd in a realistic campaign is simply ludicrous. Boxers might have an extra 1 or 2 pd only against punches to simulate very, very strong neck muscles which stops their brain bouncing around in their skull too much.

 

I once saw Alec Arthur train by sitting on his heels and the back of his head (imagine the crab with no hands) rolling around on his head to strengthen his neck muscles. He also has a kind of head harness he uses to lift weights.

 

The real art of boxing though is avoiding taking damage.

 

With a combination of dcv, blocking but mostly from rolling with punches boxers hang in there. Every time you see one up against the ropes hiding behind his guard and covering up he is rolling with the blow imho.

 

They'll have high con and really high recoveries. Pro boxers train really, really hard. Most will have skill levels which can be shifted to dcv. The best will have dedicated dcv skill levels have skill levels in roll with the blow.

 

Most will have a few maneuvers and the odd one will have a damage class or two for his signature punch but they'd be the best boxers on the planet.

[Zed-F]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

You know I really don't think the game physics don't model real physics all that closely.

 

There are lots of instances of people physically toughening themselves up so they can take more punishment on a regular basis. Iron shirt techniques, Guiness book of world records stuff, etc. Do these help against falls from 10 story buildings? Probably not. But unless you want to model every kind of defense as a limited defense against certain kinds of damage, there is such a thing as aiming for too much correspondence between the game world and the real world it can never simulate with perfect accuracy.

 

I say let the game be the game, give your characters more than 3 PD, and don't worry about it so much.

[Legatus]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

That's right, Zed's right!

 

But this actually where the pure concepts of gaming clash. And with the HERO system you can go either way. I prefer not to worry about realism too much.

[LA Singletary]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed! This has certainly given me more food for thought as I move forward creating characters in HERO.

 

 

Lauren A. Singletary

[Alibear]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Well that's where we disagree, I think the Hero system does a very good job of simulating certain kinds of realism if, and this is a very big if, if you build characters you want.

[OddHat]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

You know I really don't think the game physics don't model real physics all that closely.

 

There are lots of instances of people physically toughening themselves up so they can take more punishment on a regular basis. Iron shirt techniques, Guiness book of world records stuff, etc. Do these help against falls from 10 story buildings? Probably not. But unless you want to model every kind of defense as a limited defense against certain kinds of damage, there is such a thing as aiming for too much correspondence between the game world and the real world it can never simulate with perfect accuracy.

 

I say let the game be the game, give your characters more than 3 PD, and don't worry about it so much.

 

Zed for the win.

 

Real strength is too complex to neatly work in HERO terms, without breaking it down to a ridiculous degree. Real damage is too complex to work in HERO terms, without breaking it down to a ridiculous degree. There has to come a time when we stop saying "+5 STR only to close hand grippers, +2 PD only versus strike damage to the left arm", and just frickin write up a playable character.

 

Not that you can't have fun carefully statting out every last aspect of the differences between a circus strongman, a world's strongest man competitor, and that huge steroid dude who works in the slaughterhouse. If that's the type of game you like to play in or run, go for it. Personally, I've never seen a group obsessed enough to care.

[Legatus]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

Well that's where we disagree' date=' I think the Hero system does a very good job of simulating certain kinds of realism if, and this is a very big if, if you build characters you want.[/quote']

 

I can also agree with you. As you say, if you want these kinds of details...

 

Me personally, I don't.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Hero Version of The Everyman

 

As to the damage class issue, comparison studies I've seen put the force of pro boxers' punches at the extreme upper end of what any martial artist can generate with the upper body (kicks by various Eastern arts had a bit more oomph than such blows, topped out by Muay Thay kickboxers). I don't think you can make a case for a handful of the best boxers in the world being restricted to +1 DC on their signature move if Karate and Kung Fu experts are able to buy +3 or +4 across the full spectrum of their maneuvers.