shadowlance Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I hadnt bought it because I just hadnt gotten around to it. In response to this thread (finally registered to post this mostly useless tidbit) I bought a copy. Personally I'm disappointed that adventures aren't better sellers. They have always been some of my favorite RPG purchases. I believe that Battlegrounds was a step in the right direction (value above and beyond the adventures themselves). Combined books (source material with fully fleshed out adventures) seem like a good way to get adventures printed. You guys have demonstrated your willingness to print huge page count books. How about a 192pg sourcebook with 1 or 2 32 page adventures tacked onto em? Ought to be able to get that out the door for 29.99 or so (judging by previous page counts). I'd buy it I think its a serious mistake to skimp on art (at least for new characters). In a superhero game its important to have visuals for the various characters (just check out the length of the superhero images thread to see what I mean). If you had to cut art in the PDF stuff back to just cover illio, character pix and maps that would be acceptable...but cutting any of those three would be an error imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4y Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I think $12 is a decent price. The problem though is that unless the price is pretty low only people that are going to seriously use it (a small fraction of the GMs out there) would buy it. If the price is low enough and it has some pretty pictures in it and big easy read charts, people who will never use it will toss away snack money and buy it anyway, which is what I think you need happening to have a large enough market for it. Since I'm not a GM and the rare times I have been I've prefered to make my own adventure, and since I have too many things to spend snack money on, I'd never consider buying it no matter what the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by shadowlance ... How about a 192pg sourcebook with 1 or 2 32 page adventures tacked onto em? Ought to be able to get that out the door for 29.99 or so (judging by previous page counts). I'd buy it That's not a bad idea. Champions Universe had an adventure attached. Maybe Terran Empire should have had one, as well as future campaign books. It would certainly make them a more attractive package. Also, and adventure can often get across the feel of a universe far better than many pages of description. Keith "I'm just sayin' " Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by J4y I think $12 is a decent price. The problem though is that unless the price is pretty low only people that are going to seriously use it (a small fraction of the GMs out there) would buy it. If the price is low enough and it has some pretty pictures in it and big easy read charts, people who will never use it will toss away snack money and buy it anyway, which is what I think you need happening to have a large enough market for it. Since I'm not a GM and the rare times I have been I've prefered to make my own adventure, and since I have too many things to spend snack money on, I'd never consider buying it no matter what the price. How high do you think their operating costs are on a PDF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Shadowlance, I think your idea is a very good one, but perhaps it should be made into a new thread. I am unsure if the Powers that Be of DoJ are still reading the thread. Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 We're still reading (or I am, at least ). If a thread is of interest to us, we usually keep reading it, as long as it remains on topic. In response to the idea specifically raised -- adventures in the back of setting books -- I can tell you it's not high on my priority list. I usually have enough trouble fitting the basic setting information in the pages allotted; I'm not going to make our already too-big books bigger by adding material that is, at best, of secondary value to the average purchaser. All our setting books have, formally or informally, lots of plot seeds, so that'll have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long We're still reading (or I am, at least ). If a thread is of interest to us, we usually keep reading it, as long as it remains on topic. In response to the idea specifically raised -- adventures in the back of setting books -- I can tell you it's not high on my priority list. I usually have enough trouble fitting the basic setting information in the pages allotted; I'm not going to make our already too-big books bigger by adding material that is, at best, of secondary value to the average purchaser. All our setting books have, formally or informally, lots of plot seeds, so that'll have to do. I think a sample scenario in genre books, as was done in champions and Fantasy Hero (IIRC) is a good idea, since it shows how to put it all together into a scenario. In other books, as suggested by the posters, it sounds like a marketing ploy. OK, now all the Adventure buyers have to buy the genre book to get the adventure, and the Genre Book Buyers have to pay for the extra pages used for the adventure. "Underhanded" seems a bit strong, but certainly manipulative. And not the above board business practices that I've come to expect from Hero. Exactly as Steve says, it forces many buyers to pay for material that, at best, has secondary value to them. That could be a great economic division, but it could also generate resentment in the client base, which would backfire big time. For what it's worth, I think Steve's making the right business decision here - and I would have bought the scenario book and the source book, assuming the genre is one of interest to myself and my players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Steve, Thank you for the response. I agree that adventures are probably not a key issue for most customers, but it seems to be of big importance to some customers. While I would rather have all the information in a setting book be dedicated to setting material (or genre book dedicated to genre material), it would seem like a reasonable idea to ADD on 32 pages if it will help the book sell (of course, that leads to whether any NEW/MORE people would buy it as a result of the adventure that would not buy it anyway). Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Personally, I think that supplements like Champions Battlegrounds which are collections of several adventures are the way to go. Im much more apt to buy such a product than a singleton adventure supplement. (By the way, small plug: Battlegrounds is a lot of fun -- get your copy now!). But then, Ive got a shelf full of Dungeon Magazines which Ive always thought were the coolest thing, but which I dont think have ever sold well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 One idea on adventure books: Instead of a book of full adventures, something similar to "Challange of the Champions" and Champions 3-D, that while not giving us a fully fleshed out adventure gives us many ideas for them, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz One idea on adventure books: Instead of a book of full adventures, something similar to "Challange of the Champions" and Champions 3-D, that while not giving us a fully fleshed out adventure gives us many ideas for them, I like that idea. Alternatively, several smaller (one or two night, with less detail) scenarios rather than one large one. Some ideas for expanding the middle, with no real detail, would allow those inclined to expand the scenario, and those looking for a quick filler can take the one or two night scenario and run with it. I do love the long scenarios with room for other events within as well (intertwine them so you're at the beginning of one, middle of another and end of a third and watch the joy as the players start fiuguring out what's what!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 An excellent idea -- so excellent, in fact, that we've had it on our 2004 schedule for months now. Villainy Amok: This sourcebook for Champions describes dozens of standard comic book plots — alien invasion, superhero weddings, bank robberies, instant super-power drugs, and more — with notes on how to run them, a short sample adventure for each, and the characters and maps you need to run that scenario. It’s the perfect resource for Champions GMs, and players will appreciate the information and rules on how to deal with these situations. Author: Scott Bennie Tentative Release Date: Late 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long An excellent idea -- so excellent, in fact, that we've had it on our 2004 schedule for months now. Sooooo, I guess this would be a bad time to start up one of those, "DOJ does not respond to their customers' needs." threads. KA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 Villains Amok sounds like a great book... something for those that like the adventures, and for those of us that are looking for the source information/ideas within some adventures. I am not sure if it would be "responding to their customers" when DoJ came up with the idea before the customers. <<??>> Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by Polaris I am not sure if it would be "responding to their customers" when DoJ came up with the idea before the customers. Stop anticipating our needs and start responding to us when we ask for the books you didn't anticipate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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