Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

[SSgt Baloo]

The Depression Era (pulp) and WW II (golden age of superheroes) are both good settings for a campaign. I've read a lot about these times, but most of what I've read was written by American authors for an American audience. If you are not from the USA (and you've probably heard a lot about the US perspective anyway) please tell me what facts and events you'd like to point out to an American who's read very little about these eras.

 

Anyone...? Anyone...? Bueller?

[assault]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

World War II began in 1939.

 

More importantly, most of the combatant states were proportionally more heavily involved than the US was. The US was a long way from most of the fighting, and the proportion of the population in uniform was relatively low.

 

In contrast, even places like Britain where there wasn't ground combat saw regular air raids, and faced a real threat of invasion. In the case of Australia, the air raids were on fairly remote places, and the invasion threat wasn't actually real, but nobody knew that at the time. (There was a submarine raid on Sydney harbour, too.) About a tenth of Australia's population were in uniform. Also, of course, hundreds of thousands of US troops were based in Australia - a substantial and sudden increase in the population.

 

So while "life went on" during the war, the level of disruption was much greater.

 

And that's not talking about places which were fought over and occupied by one side or the other.

 

So that's the war... now for the Pulp era. Hmm...

 

There was a Call of Cthulhu supplement called Green and Pleasant Land published way back when, which contains lots of neat stuff about 1920s Britain. Unfortunately it's been out of print for twenty years!

 

One thing to consider about the Pulp era is that colonial empires were alive and well back then. This meant the an Englishman, a Canadian and an Australian could walk into a bar in Delhi - and feel right at home.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

The Sydney Harbour Bridge was begun in 1925 (some preliminary work done before then)and completed in 1932.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Harbour_Bridge

 

And in connection with a famous incident at the official opening:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guard

 

There were criticisms at the time, including a number of pollies who thought the Bridge was far too big and would never be used to full capacity (Hah!).

 

On another note, Australia was quite prominent in aviation in the period between the World Wars. The most famous and well-regarded ( but by no means only) Aussie flier was -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kingsford_Smith

[OddHat]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Alan Moore has dropped some interesting hints about the activities of UK Supers in WWII, especially in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier and Avalon. Some good ideas there for a non USA based WWII campaign.

[assault]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

The Australian federal government moved to Canberra in 1927. Prior to that Melbourne was the capital.

 

The majority of Australia's population lived in the cities, then as now. This is probably irrelevant to most scenarios set in Australia.

 

A large proportion of Australia's population had been born in Britain or Ireland. Many of those who hadn't had British or Irish parents or grandparents.

 

The White Australia policy was in force throughout this period. There were non-White Australians, but they were rare. There was a White New Zealand policy too.

 

Indigenous people were subject to very severe restrictions on where they could live. On the other hand, indigenous workers were extremely important to the pastoral industries. And often effectively unpaid.

 

Papua and New Guinea were Australian colonies. Western Samoa was a New Zealand colony.

 

Australia used Pounds, Shillings and Pence as its currency. So did New Zealand. While based on, and sometimes tied to, the British currency, these were distinct currencies.

 

Police forces in Australia are organised at the state and territory levels. New Zealand had a single national force, I think.

 

Sewerage systems in most Australian cities were fairly primitive, with even inner city areas still reliant on "thunder boxes" until well after the war.

[OddHat]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Additional: When I was doing my Golden Age campaign, I used the International Hero and Jess Nevins pulp pages to find WWII era UK, Australian, French, Italian, German and Japanese characters to use as the basis for Supers. There wasn't as much as I'd hoped (especially from Germany), but there's still a rich body of work out there, all of which can add quite a bit of authentic local flavor to a WWII game.

[Clonus]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Um...Canada were the ones who got stuck with the stupid idea of testing out the aircraft carrier made out of sawdust and ice. Can you imagine how hard it would have been to move one of those?

 

World War II like World War I, was a time when Quebec was at odds with the rest of Canada, Quebec having long since lost any emotional ties with Europe. Quebec basically wanted to sit the war out.

 

Canada's Prime Minister was consulting a medium for seances all through the war. He also made the greatest campaign promise of all time when he vowed "Conscription if necessary, but not necessarily conscription!"

 

Until 1944, the anthrax being used in the American biological war experiments was being produced on Grosse Ile in the St Laurence seaway by the Canadians, who had their own biowar program.

 

During the war, the inability to import American comics led to the production of Canadian ones. The most memorable Canadian superhero was Nelvana a kind of cross between Doctor Fate and Wonder Woman. Heavy hitter but her powers went on the fritz if she ever left the Canadian north so she had an excuse for not having a major impact on the war.

 

During the twenties, Canada actually hired some idiot to go down to Hollywood and try to convince American movie makers to insert references to Canada into their movies. I have no idea why but he did experience some success, which contributed to the existence of the Hollywood Mountie in a number of very bad movies and it continued into the early Depression.

 

Canada's internment of Japanese during the war was actually a great deal worse than that of the United States. Conditions were brutal in the Canadian camps and families were not kept together.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

For a look at a retro Canadian superhero, I recommend the podcast "Adventures of the Red Panda" on Decoder Ring Theatre. The setting is Toronto in the 1930s in the main storyline, but there's a parallel universe where the Red Panda is the top hero of Canada's WWII contingent.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Just going to toss out the obvious: The Diary of Anne Frank.

[Houston GM]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

please tell me what facts and events you'd like to point out to an American who's read very little about these eras.

For WWII, don't ignore the Eastern Front (Germany vs. Russia). It was far larger and more important than anything that occurred on the Western Front (involving Great Britain and the US).

 

To give an idea of the difference in scale...

D-Day (Allies' invasion of France)

156,000 Allies vs. 380,000 Germans

Operation Barbarossa (German invasion of Soviet Union)

approx. 3 million Germans vs. 3.2 million Soviets

 

The Eastern Front is where the war was won/lost. Wikipedia can get you started on the necessary information.

[Mirgos]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

The 1920s saw the treaty that led to the partition of Ireland, & the ensuing Civil War.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Thanks to all for your informative replies. Anyone else?

[Redmenace]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

There were a few sourcebooks written for West End Game's Indiana Jones rpg that covered some interesting pre WW2 locations.

 

The one I'd reccomend is "Indiana Jones and the Land of the Rising Sun." It had a good overview of 1930s Japan's politics, religion, police forces and the supernatural. The descriptions gave a great feeling for the Cold War-East Germany like paranoia of the pre war period. It is also written from the pov of a game master and covers details about what it is like for caucasian adventurers in a more racially homogenous asian state.

 

 

There is a Call of Cthulhu supplement called "Pulp CThulhu" that is rumored to be on the verge of coming out from time to time. Chaosium had the last word of destination books set in the 1920s and much of it is still useful for the pre war/ pre american involvement period.

[OddHat]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

One last general note, and a link.

 

First, here's my write up of Sun Koh, the Nazi Doc Savage:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39365

 

One thing I tried to do with my Golden Age campaign was go with authentic characters from the period rather than retro characters, and to keep the point of view of the writers in mind. Axis Heroes didn't see themselves as Villains, and most of the world saw America as sitting out the start of the war. A few of FDRs biographers agreed with that view. There was real gratitude for US aid, but there was plenty of bitterness, resentment and shame as well.

 

A really surprising number of mid level Japanese officers were actually pro-US pre-war. Letters from Iwo Jima is a very interesting film to watch, especially paired with Dr. Akagi / Kanzo Sensei for a look at how the Japanese saw themselves near the end of the war. Unfortunately, both minimize the very real enthusiasm for Empire the Japanese had before things went bad. The Rape of Nanking is a good book to read for what it was like to be facing the Japanese as agressors.

 

For something lighthearted but interesting, Stephen Chows God of Gamblers III gives a Chinese look at Shanghai at the end of the Pulp era, with Supers.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

A really surprising number of mid level Japanese officers were actually pro-US pre-war. Letters from Iwo Jima is a very interesting film to watch' date=' especially paired with Dr. Akagi / Kanzo Sensei for a look at how the Japanese saw themselves near the end of the war. Unfortunately, both minimize the very real enthusiasm for Empire the Japanese had before things went bad. The Rape of Nanking is a good book to read for what it was like to be facing the Japanese as agressors.[/quote']

 

Not just mid-level. Yamamoto was similarly inclined, and I have no doubt that a fair few of his friends were likewise.

 

Also, the Japanese originally patterned their Navy after the British model, and saw their empire-building as emulating the British Empire. However, as is often the case, they quickly got their own notions about what this entailed.

 

Their military's monstrous treatment of non-Japanese in this era is ironic - during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905, the Japanese garnered a fair amount of praise from the foreign media for their civilized treatment of POWs. Also ironic, they also began that war with a surprise attack (emulating the US's actions when warring with Spain some years previously) - a stratagem widely regarded at the time as "brilliant".

[drunkonduty]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

The British Empire was still the Empire on which the sun never set. Although I believe it was during this period that the Empire became the Commonwealth. Interestingly Ireland was also part of the Commonwealth at this time. It became a Republic in 1949 and left the Commonwealth then.

 

Just had a quick look: the Commonwealth could be said to be in existence from 1931, although many countries that are members today were not independant nations at the time and so were still part of the Empire. India and Pakistan are two good examples of this.

 

And speaking of them: this was the period when the Indian independence movement got into full swing. Ghandi, Nehru, Jammir(?) and the Indian Congress are good topics to look up. Independence was a major issue in India at the time, with all sorts of activism like the Non-cooperation Movement; Civil Disobedience Movement and Salt Tax protests. The infamous Jallianwalla Bagh massacre took place in 1919.

 

Independence movements were probably beginning all over the Empire around this time, but this is just my guess.

 

Japan invaded China in 1937. WW2 starts this year if you ask the Chinese. They'd invaded and occupied Manchuria in 1932. Renamed it Manchukuo. There was Japanese colonisation of the area organised by the government and seems to have been a complete disaster for those Japanese and Korean families who went along. (starvation and extreme hardship with no help from the government beyond initial settlement.) Someone above has already mentioned the Rape of Nanking. Nanking was by no means the only Chinese city to suffer this treatment but it is the most infamous. In Japan itself the rise of the militarists took place through the 1920s and involved the usual rounds of cabals of officers leading murder squads against political opponents and all that.

 

China as a whole had ceased to have an effective centralised government some time before this. Whole regions were run by warlords with no pretence of popular or fair government. The Chinese Communists began their rise to power in this period, in the face of extreme reaction from the Kuomintang. The Long March took place from 1934 - 35. Shanghai was an open city. It was administered by various nations at the time, inc. Japan, Britain and France. Maybe US? As well as the Chinese. There were many White Russians and Russian Jews in Shanghai at this point, having left Russia in the wake of the communist victory in the civil war there.

 

Russia. Well, there was that Revolution thingy in 1917. Everyone knows that one. Frequently overlooked is the fact that there was civil war from 1918 til 1921/22, the Reds vs. the Whites. The Reds were the Bolsheviks and their allies under Lenin and Trotsky. The WHites were a broader, less radical movement led (kinda) by Alexander Kerensky. Also, from 1919 to 1921 there were up to a couple of hundred thousand British troops helping the Whites. This army was supplied through Archangel in the north. And then after all that, in the Pulp era proper, there was the rise of Stalin and disgrace of Trotsky; the early 30s had the Stalin executing thousands of officers and private soldiers whose loyalty he doubted. And his infamous quotas. (He would give an area quota of people to be killed. Didn't care who, as long as the number was met.) Five Year Plans and other economics that make Reagon-nomics seem like good sense. Gulags (ie.: concentration camps for people Stalin didn't like.)

 

The Spanish Civil War. 1936 -39. Republicans (mixed bag of democratic reformers, anarchists, socialists and communists) vs. Nationalists (read Fascists.) Russia, Germany and Italy used it as a war by proxy and training ground. There were the International Brigades, private volunteers from across the world who went to fight with the the Republican side. The best armed of these were the Communists who had supply from Russia. The infamous Condor Legion was sent from Germany to help the Nationalists. A good argument could be made for the German contribution being essential in Franco's eventual victory. It was this outfit that carried out the well known Guernica raids. The Italian presence was quite large but, um, seems to have foreshadowed their WW2 effectiveness quite closely. If ya know what I mean.

 

The Rise of Fascism (in one form or another) was a world wide phenomena, by no means limited to the 3 famous nations. There were popular fascist movements in every country. Here in Australia there was serious worry in the government that the right wing militias would try to overthrow the government. That event at the opening of the Sydney Harbour Bridge (mentioned above) involved a senior member of one of these militias doing a bit of grandstanding. In the UK you had the birth of the National Front under Oswald Mosely and, commenting on the rise of Mussolini, Churchill said something along the lines of 'If I were an Italian I would be a Black Shirt too.' Poland and Portugal both had Fascist governments and there were Quislings in more countries than just Sweden.

 

Then there were the Communists. This too was a much wider movement than popular history would have you think. Up until the early 30's there were more Communists in Germany than there were Nazis. They had running battles in the streets and there'd been a Communist revolution in Germany just after WW1. The German army coming back from the Armistice put an end to that. Fear of Communism was one of the main reasons that the Allied Powers supported Fascism in many paces.

 

Yoiks! gotta go to work. Bye.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Poland and Portugal both had Fascist governments and there were Quislings in more countries than just Sweden.

 

Ummm. Quisling was Norwegian. Otherwise, good stuff.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Vancouver had a tough time in the Depression. Hey, who didn't? But the scale of the effect was particularly disastrous. Whereas in-migration and building started again during the war, in Vancouver, real estate prices, and thus building, as well as in-migaration, only really started to recover in the mid 1950s. You can still see the effects of the hiatus in many urban neighbourhoods, but it was much more substantial at the time, with about 20 years of the "land that time forgot," roughly 1933--58.

In concrete terms, people were stuck to their fixed assets, cultural fads passed us by, whole neighbourhoods of buildings aged together, streetside trees getting bigger and bigger, just like in a small town where there's not a great deal of development going on...

It was an era when "my American cousin" was a fabulous figure, literally a generation ahead in every way.

[drunkonduty]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Quisling: OH! So he was. Well I've had that wrong for a long time. Thanks for the correction!

[Markdoc]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

One thing to consider about the Pulp era is that colonial empires were alive and well back then. This meant the an Englishman, a Canadian and an Australian could walk into a bar in Delhi - and feel right at home.

 

Actually, speaking from experience, Delhi is still the capital of AngloIndia, and it's still possible for a South African, a Kiwi and and Englishman to walk into a bar and feel right at home

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Alan Moore has dropped some interesting hints about the activities of UK Supers in WWII' date=' especially in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier and Avalon. Some good ideas there for a non USA based WWII campaign.[/quote']

 

Yep - a nice take on the era is the cartoon series "Zenith" which has a fair amount of background on the British and Nazi supers locked in combat in WW2.

 

cheers, Mark

[Redmenace]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Is that a comic or an animated series?

[OddHat]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Yep - a nice take on the era is the cartoon series "Zenith" which has a fair amount of background on the British and Nazi supers locked in combat in WW2.

 

cheers, Mark

 

Is that a comic or an animated series?

 

I remember a Zenith series from 2000 AD about Lovecraftian monster powered Supers; I think that may be it. Didn't remember it until Mark mentioned it though. Grant Morrison series. Good one.

[Markdoc]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

I remember a Zenith series from 2000 AD about Lovecraftian monster powered Supers; I think that may be it. Didn't remember it until Mark mentioned it though. Grant Morrison series. Good one.

 

Yep, that's the one. It's available as a trade now. The story focus is on the modern day and the superhero Zenith, but there's some nice backstory about the UK superhero and his Nazi counterpart, which ends in a battle to the death in Berlin, during WW2.

 

cheers, Mark

[薔薇語]

Re: Depression-era and WW-II settings from a Not-American perspective

 

Japan invaded China in 1937. WW2 starts this year if you ask the Chinese. They'd invaded and occupied Manchuria in 1932. Renamed it Manchukuo. There was Japanese colonisation of the area organised by the government and seems to have been a complete disaster for those Japanese and Korean families who went along. (starvation and extreme hardship with no help from the government beyond initial settlement.) Someone above has already mentioned the Rape of Nanking. Nanking was by no means the only Chinese city to suffer this treatment but it is the most infamous. In Japan itself the rise of the militarists took place through the 1920s and involved the usual rounds of cabals of officers leading murder squads against political opponents and all that.

 

Just to ad a small bit more about the culture of the time. Since the twenties, but especially starting in the early thirties, the Japanese government became very anti communist. They had their Red Scare leading up to WWII. Worker's movements and communism brought with them a very internationalist view, and did so at a time when Japan was becoming ever more hyper-nationalist. Also, the pitch to the Japanese people was that it was Japan's obligation to end western tyranny and bring Asia into the bright new world. There were a couple great slogans of the time that I will try later.

 

I haven't found the slogans, yet, but I did find a nice little resource on some of Japan's views.

 

Quoted from the piece:

 

Japan often justified their forceful tactics by citing a lack of cooperation from other Asian nations. Japanese Foreign Minister Koki Hirota wrote:

 

"It is hardly necessary to say that the basic policy of the Japanese government aims at the stabilization of East Asia through conciliation and cooperation between Japan, Manchoukuo, and China for their common prosperity and well being. Since, however, China, ignoring our true motive, has mobilized her vast armies against us, we can only counter her step by force of arms (Lasker and Roman 44)."

 

 

In a 1937 statement regarding the Sino-Japanese conflict at the beginning of the century, the Japanese Chamber of Commerce of New York had this to say:

 

"Back in 1904-05, Japan… fought Czarist Russia… upon Chinese soil. She fought, first, to save China and, secondly, to save herself. The two were the same thing, because Russian absorption of China meant Japan’s own eventual doom. While Japan was fighting to save China, what was China doing? Secretly she entered into an alliance with Russia against Japan (20)."

 

Quoted from an article on Michigan State University's website. I only read the parts relevant to Japan and not the US section leading to it.

 

 

The Depression Era (pulp) and WW II (golden age of superheroes) are both good settings for a campaign. I've read a lot about these times, but most of what I've read was written by American authors for an American audience. If you are not from the USA (and you've probably heard a lot about the US perspective anyway) please tell me what facts and events you'd like to point out to an American who's read very little about these eras.

 

Anyone...? Anyone...? Bueller?

 

Where did you want the game to take place? I realize it is suppose to be Non-US, but that leaves a large portion of the world open for discussion.

 

La Rose.