Variable Bonus

[Sean Waters]

I've been thinking that it might be nice to have a way to generate a variable bonus in Hero. Here's what I mean:

 

At present you can buy (say) +4 OCV.

 

That means that against ANY opponent you are +4 OCV.

 

However, in reality some opponents have styles that you will find easy to cope with, others will have styles you find hard to cope with.

 

Would it be terribly wrong to introduce a Power Modifier (+1/4) that allowed you to have a variable modifier?

 

In effect you roll 3d6 and, for every 2 points above 11 you subtract 1 from the total, and for every 2 points below 11 you add 1.

 

Example: +4 OCV (20 points) VARIABLE BONUS +1/4: 25 total

 

Every time you use the ability (which can be per phase or per combat, or even per opponent, so long as you decide before you roll), you roll 3d6 and if you get 10, 11 or 12 then the bonus is as indicated, if you roll 8 or 9 you get an additional +1, 6 or 7 gets you +2, 4 or 5 gets you +3 and 3 gets you +4.

 

OTOH 13 or 14 gets you -1, 15 or 16 gets you -2 and 17 or 18 gets you -3.

 

In effect it converts a static bonus into something quite like a complimentary roll. The bonus NEVER becomes a penalty (although it can drop to 0).

 

For a +1/2 advantage you never take a penalty - if you roll high, use the normal bonus.

 

The other way you could do this is to buy the maximum bonus you want and create some sort of 'partial activation' roll as a liitation, but that seemed more complicated.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Sean, I just read your comments on complementary COM rolls in the 6e changes thread. Why wouldn't you apply the same logic of bonuses on an activation roll here?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Sean' date=' I just read your comments on complementary COM rolls in the 6e changes thread. Why wouldn't you apply the same logic of bonuses on an activation roll here?[/quote']

 

I would, I am not sure this in necessary at all BUT this makes a fixed bonus into a variable bonus, not unlike a complimentary roll, and there is enough enthusiasm for that idea that an option wouldn't hurt, and may help.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Eh, seems to add an extra step, but I suppose in place of an activation or something... kind of hard to grasp exactly why something would have a random bonus...

[jtelson]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Eh' date=' seems to add an extra step, but I suppose in place of an activation or something... kind of hard to grasp exactly [i']why[/i] something would have a random bonus...

 

Well, something being randomly determined doesn't mean the special effect is random. Some days I'm more 'on' than others - it's caused by a myriad of small things that probably could be identified but in a RPG would essentially boil down to a random roll.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Well' date=' something being randomly determined doesn't mean the special effect is random. Some days I'm more 'on' than others - it's caused by a myriad of small things that probably could be identified but in a RPG would essentially boil down to a random roll.[/quote']

 

Right... the Attack Roll, and the Effect Roll... to me that "on" day is the effect of a low (good) roll on the skill check... while "off" days are a high (bad) roll...

 

Just seems to be adding another layer of randomness with no real explanation of why.

[jtelson]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Right... the Attack Roll, and the Effect Roll... to me that "on" day is the effect of a low (good) roll on the skill check... while "off" days are a high (bad) roll...

 

Just seems to be adding another layer of randomness with no real explanation of why.

 

I suppose if the entirety of a fight were determined by a single roll then that would follow but if on the off chance that more than one roll was needed to determine the outcome then an "on day", "familiar with style", "Your Kung-Fu is pathetic" or some similar bonus might help reduce the randomness of a given conflict.

[caris]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

I've been thinking that it might be nice to have a way to generate a variable bonus in Hero. Here's what I mean:

 

At present you can buy (say) +4 OCV.

 

That means that against ANY opponent you are +4 OCV.

 

However, in reality some opponents have styles that you will find easy to cope with, others will have styles you find hard to cope with.

 

Why not buy each level with an increasing level of Activation Roll, and just ask the GM to let you make one roll for all the levels at once, and you only get the levels that activate?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Eh' date=' seems to add an extra step, but I suppose in place of an activation or something... kind of hard to grasp exactly [i']why[/i] something would have a random bonus...

 

 

There is no reason you could not make a roll that always applies to that opponent - some people are easier to fight than others and it is not necessarily related to 'absolute' skill.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

Why not buy each level with an increasing level of Activation Roll' date=' and just ask the GM to let you make one roll for all the levels at once, and you only get the levels that activate?[/quote']

 

I probably would do it that way, although if you have a lot of levels you lose some granularity, or have to make a lot of separate rolls.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

I'm not sure why it should apply to a purchased bonus. I mean, a -2 is a -2 whether or not you have a +4 from something. Why not just make this a particular application of Luck and/or Unluck (maybe even Luck with an Activation Roll and a corresponding level of Unluck as a Side Effect)?

[Beast]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

have multiple all combat skill levels each with an activate say starting at 12- the next at 10- and at 8-

then have each with the side effect of if failed it goes against you

so you have to roll for each level you wanted a chance to bring into play

[Sean Waters]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

To be honest this was an idea sparked by the COM debate argument that a fixed bonus did not do the same thing as a variable bonus from a complimentary skill roll - it doesn't, obviously, but I think the difference is not worth bothering about, especially in a system that does not really care about margin of success or failure. However, there are enough people that like that mechanic that I feel it is worth suggesting a way to use it.

 

I have suggested the activation roll on a skill level approach myself. The side effect limitation does not work well for me because even a minor side effect has to be 15 points. It is also not necessary: you don't need to swing into negatives at all, and if you fail all your activations then you get +0 levels, which is fine.

 

Any limitation based approach doesn't work perfectly, of course, becaue IIRC you can only apply limtiations to 5 point combat skills.

 

So, I know it can be done in other ways, and I'm cool with that, but I thought it might be interesting to look at doing it this way - it seems to work and uses a relatively familiar mechanic. It also allows 1 point variations on skill, no matter how many skill levels you have - although this may rarely be a problem, the activation approach, with enough skill levels, will give variations of 2 or more at a time on a single roll.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

I'm not sure why it should apply to a purchased bonus. I mean' date=' a -2 is a -2 whether or not you have a +4 from something. Why not just make this a particular application of Luck and/or Unluck (maybe even Luck with an [i']Activation Roll[/i] and a corresponding level of Unluck as a Side Effect)?

 

I kinda like this.

 

Bonuses are bought as dice - you roll your bonus dice and count BODY toward the bonus provided.

 

You might get more, you might get less but most often you'd get the bonus you bought.

 

You could purchase talents like 'difficult fighting style' which would provide bonuses to DCV in the same way.

 

You might even buy cheaper bonuses that only give a bonus if you roll a 6, like luck.

 

It is extra dice and extra time but it could give some extra fun (which is the only reason to do it).

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

You see, this is why we talk

 

I really like that, and it works brilliantly: you can decide, when you buy a skill level, if it is fixed or variable. If it is variable, you roll 1d6 for each level and count Body, which becomes the bonus. I'd say that was a +0 power modifier, or, better yet, simply an option.

 

That doesn't preclude building skill levels on activation rolls, but does provide an alternative, and very 'Hero' mechanic. Unfortunately you've both been repped too recently to do so again. You'll just have to make do with plaudits.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

I posted something to this effect in my big thread in the 6e forums. A modifier to RSR called Progressive, the value based on how much you get per point you make the roll by. You have to buy the full amount, but can then apply an additional Limitation.

 

Requires A Skill Roll: Progressive: This is an additional modifier to the Requires A Skill Roll Limitation. The Power to which this Modifier is applied may not always be used at its full Active Points; instead, the amount of the Power that may be used is based on how successful the Skill Roll is.

 

Up to 4 Active Points of Power per point roll made by: -1/2

From 5-8 Active Points of Power per point roll made by: -1/4

9 or more Active Points of Power per point roll made by: -0

 

This assumes a successful roll including all penalties for Active Points used.

 

It should go without saying, but in case it doesn't: this maxes out at the amount of Active Points bought. In other words, a character can't gain more of a bonus than what he has bought by succeeding at his Skill Roll by a greater amount.

 

(Example: Guy with Images buys -5 in additional PER Roll penalties with Requires A Skill Roll and Progressive: 3 Active Points of Power per point. He pays (15 / 1.5) = 10 points for the additional penalties.)

 

Cost: -1/2 for up to 4 Active Points of Power per point the Skill Roll is made by; -1/4 for 5-8 Active Points per point the Skill Roll succeeds by; and -0 for 9 or more Active Points per point.

[mattingly]

Re: Variable Bonus

 

This sounds like the Analyze Skill might apply, at lower levels. Instead of buying a semirandom +1 to +4 OCV, you could buy Analyze Martial Style, or Analyze Social Circumstance, or Analyze Lucky Odds, or whatever was appropriate for your ability.