Doc Shadow Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I did this up about 15 years ago and recently today re-worked a bit. It was based on the Master Edition Handbook of the Marvel Universe from the early 90s. I'm looking for a little feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roth Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO So you based this on the books, not any of the Marvel RPGs? Intelligence : Just to be a nit picker Int in Hero is how fast your brain works and what it can notice, not an actual measure of intelligence... how much you know and how much you can learn. I've read the Original Handbooks, did the Master Editions have actual descriptions of each character along the INT STR STA etc line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Yes, these came from just the Handbook, not the rpg. I understand what you're saying about INT, but this is the way the Handbook lists it, and frankly it's as close as HERO comes to to it. And the Master Editions are the ones on cardstock. They just list the words under the stats, full descriptions were on the inside covers. There are histories and such, but they're pretty brief. They're on one page with front, back and side illustrations of the characters on the other side. BTW nice pic of Alicia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roth Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Thanks. She's the model for Rainshadow/Rebeka, a character I originally created using the Advanced Marvel RPG.. the upgrade I guess you could say for the original Marvel game Did the cardstock have numbers or did it just use descriptive language for the characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO They used everything except the HERO numbers. Those I had to extrapolate from the information given. Also the Superhuman Class STR is based on my read of where they should be, not where the Handbook puts them. As such it is a re-work of the Handbook chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksmoorSD Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO I don't think I ever really got a chance to read the card stock ones you're talking about. Is there anywhere online I can look at them or could you post some stats on someone so I could see how it all converts out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Marvel to Champions Conversion by Hierax http://www.hierax.com/hero/super/marvel.html Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO I don't think I ever really got a chance to read the card stock ones you're talking about. Is there anywhere online I can look at them or could you post some stats on someone so I could see how it all converts out? Sure. Here's what they list for Spidey Intelligence: Gifted - INT 16-21 Strength: Superhuman Class 1 - STR 32-43 Stamina: Superhuman - CON 29-34, END 71-89, REC 50-65 Durability: Enhanced Human - BODY 29-39, STUN 50-90, PD/ED 21-35 Agility: Superhuman - DEX 29-37 Reflexes: Superhuman - SPD 9-10 Based on the comics I might push Spidey's STR to Superhuman Class 2 - STR 44-50. But otherwise I think it works pretty well. Here's Cap: Intelligence: Above Normal - INT 12-15 Strength: Peak Human - STR 16-20 Stamina: Peak Human - CON 18-23, END 36-50, REC 18-25 Durability: Peak Human - BODY 16-20, STUN 30-50, PD/ED 7-10 Agility: Peak Human - DEX 18-22 Reflexes: Peak Human - SPD 5-6 Based on the comics I would have put Cap at Enhanced Human for Stamina, and Durability; but I could live with this. And here's She-Hulk: Intelligence: Above Normal - INT 12-15 Strength: Superhuman Class 9 - STR 106-115 Stamina: Superhuman - CON 29-34, END 71-89, REC 50-65 Durability: Metahuman - BODY 40-59, STUN 75-150, PD/ED 36-50 Agility: Enhanced Human - DEX 23-28 Reflexes: Enhanced Human - SPD 7-8 Based on the comics I would have put Jen at Peak Human for Agility and Reflexes. But, again, I could live with this. I have no idea where you could find these things maybe ebay or your local comics store would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO QM, that's for that piss-poor game Marvel turned out about 20 years ago. Adventurer's Club had a conversion system for it, way back in the day. Still, it's good to know. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO I have a Adventurer's Club Magazine with the DC Heroes to Hero System Conversion around here somewhere too. I never thought of it as piss poor so much as introductory to game type of Game Mechanic. QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO I guess I've been spoiled by playing Champions for all these years. Few games measure up to HERO's standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Interesting set of notes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Marvel to Champions Conversion by Hierax http://www.hierax.com/hero/super/marvel.html Damn, been a while since I'd done that! Never did get around to revising and completing it, but it's a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO REC 50-65 What the hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO In all the comics I've read featuring Spider-man, I can't recall any where he gets tired or even slows down. Can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO One note: Hero STR is how much the character can barely lift and stagger around. Marvel STR is how much the character can lift over their head. So, you'll need to up the STR chart a bit on the Hero side of things from what I see here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO QM, that's for that piss-poor game Marvel turned out about 20 years ago. Adventurer's Club had a conversion system for it, way back in the day. Still, it's good to know. Thanks. The game wasn't piss-poor by any standard, including in comparison to Champions/Hero. It's worth a look, as it has a ton of write ups available and they were pretty accurate as to relative power levels. All the material is freely available online. (Apparently with TSR's blessing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO bigbywolfe, I'm waiting for specifics. Pattern Ghost, I think we're going to have to disagree here. I found the game extremely weak. Lots of pretty pics, but the game mechanics and numbers were uninspired, bland or generic. Frankly Marvel would have been much better off licensing HERO to do a Marvel Hero edition than going with TSR. Sometimes the biggest company isn't the best one. I'll take another look at the STR numbers, what would you suggest to correct them? I'm thinking a 5 point increase in the maximums should be about right in most cases. If anyone feels that my numbers are off, feel free to download, edit and re-post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Generally, I'd say +5 pts would work, since it doubles the lift. Looking at some of your character examples, posted up thread, I'd advise two things: First, use a different scale for different stats. It seems like some stats are a bit on the high side, like those REC scores someone mentioned. Sure, Spidey doesn't often get tired, but that's true of most comics characters. Mary Jane rarely gets tired when exerting herself either. I really don't think Peter heals back nearly 2 Body per day. He does heal fast, though. Second, "Max Human" isn't "NCM" in Marvel. These are comic book characters, so they probably at least go up to Legendary levels (25-30ish) while still being considered "normal." Side note: Spider-Man is Class 1 in STR? I thought the Handbooks used Class 10 (basically the tonnage) for the Strength scores? Spidey has always been Class 10 Strength on those things (and cards) AFAIK. Weird. In regards to FASERIP Marvel: Don't overlook it as a resource because you don't like the system. Whether you like the game mechanics or not, the actual stat blocks were pretty valid for 1980s era Marvel characters, so they can be a handy reference point. Take a gander at the Gamer's Handbook of the Marvel Universe series. The PDFs are online. I'm going to redownload that document and look at it more closely. I'll post some more feedback in a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Intelligence: Better simulated in Hero with a combination of INT and skills. I think for the most part that the Handbooks refer to the character's Intelligence as more the character's ability to do whiz-bang stuff, and scientific knowledge than actual IQ. Since Hero INT doesn't model IQ anyway, you may want to cap INT a little lower, and make up the difference with skills and for higher levels, powers. Strength: Seems OK, if boosted by 5 as mentioned already. Stamina to CON: Seems OK. Most PCs and most Marvel supers are going to stop at Metahuman anyway. I might fudge it upwards a bit for Peak Human, putting that at about 25, but you've got it at 23, which is probably close enough for government work. Stamina to END: It looks like it's about double the CON scores, a bit more in a few cases. That works for me. Recovery: This is skewed way high. Remember, the NCM for Recovery is 10. Peak human shouldn't be more than 12 or 15 tops, depending on how you want to define that benchmark. Reflexes to SPD: I'm honestly not sure if these map over at all. A better measure would be combat skill, which I know used to be used in the Handbook type stats. I'd probably go something like: Below Normal: 1 Normal: 2 Athlete: 3 Peak Human: 4-5 Enhanced Human: 6-7 Superhuman: 8-8 Metahuman: 10-12 Though I'm not sure I like mapping SPD to Reflexes. If I did this for a campaign, I'd just lay out a chart of characters and assign SPD by hierarchy of relative levels of combat ability, speed and agility type powers, etc. Agility to DEX: I'd put Peak Human a little higher, up to 23, and bump Enhanced up to 30. Durability to ETC: No comment. That's too complex for me to fool with at the moment. There are too many variables in Hero for me to consider mapping them directly like this, though I appreciate the effort you put into it. I'll have to look it over again when I'm more awake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Just to stir up the hornet's nest further, I'm going to put down what I'd most likely use as stats if I were statting up Spidey and Cap. My numbers and comments in bold. Sure. Here's what they list for Spidey Intelligence: Gifted - INT 16-21 18 Strength: Superhuman Class 1 - STR 32-43 50 Stamina: Superhuman - CON 29-34 30, END 71-89 60, REC 50-65 15 Durability: Enhanced Human - BODY 29-39 20, STUN 50-90 60, PD/ED 21-35 25 Agility: Superhuman - DEX 29-37 35 Reflexes: Superhuman - SPD 9-10 7-8 Based on the comics I might push Spidey's STR to Superhuman Class 2 - STR 44-50. But otherwise I think it works pretty well. Here's Cap: Intelligence: Above Normal - INT 12-15 13 Strength: Peak Human - STR 16-20 25 Stamina: Peak Human - CON 18-23 23, END 36-50 50, REC 18-25 15 Durability: Peak Human - BODY 16-20 25, STUN 30-50 50, PD/ED 7-10 15 Agility: Peak Human - DEX 18-22 26 Reflexes: Peak Human - SPD 5-6 6 Based on the comics I would have put Cap at Enhanced Human for Stamina, and Durability; but I could live with this. I'd give Cap some Overall levels to account for his higher PER than his INT indicates, and for his laundry list of skills. I'd give him half or 0 END on his STR if he's got the Super Soldier serum in his system, since it eliminates fatigue poisons. And here's She-Hulk: I don't really know She-Hulk all that well, but from what I've seen, I'd peg her DEX and SPD lower. Probably 23-25 DEX/5 SPD (yeah, everyone takes those lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Revised version, the changes are highlighted. The one time I can actually remember Spidey getting tired, without it being because he was sick, was about 30 years ago. He had 6 or 7 major fights in a couple of days and had gotten no sleep for about 72 hours, with a broken arm no less. When he finally got a good night's sleep he woke up completely healed, including the arm, which he had broken only a few days earlier. The REC chart is the one I'm most unsure of. I look forward to other people's take on it. The Handbooks used Class 10, 25, 50, 75, 90, and 100. I changed it to a straight linear progression of 1-10. It was a deliberate change on my part. Sorry for not making that clear. Oh I've used FASERIP in the past. I just think they're horribly incomplete. Nowadays the only two I still have are the Avengers book and the one on Equipment. Avengers: Coast to Coast gives each character about half a page, and that includes the pic, and history. It's just not enough to do a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: Marvel to HERO Here's what the Handbook lists for each category: Intelligence: Ability to think Strength: Ability to lift weight above one's head with arms fully extended Stamina: Ability to sustain peak exertion before fatigue impairs performance Durability: Ability to resist or recover from bodily injury Agility: Ability to move the body with flexibility and coordination Reflexes: Reaction time There are also a few that I didn't use: Speed, Flight Speed, and Water Speed. Which are running, flying and swimming movement respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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