Skills in Science Fiction

[Kristopher]

I'm finding that the important NPCs I'm creating for my campaign have, so far, a lot of points in Skills. When I assign skills, I look at what a character is supposed to do, and what skills would be possessed by someone doing what they do, and from the place they're from.

 

And yet I seem to come up with skill lists that are long in comparison to many I see published or posted.

 

Is this just a matter of me trying to be too specific, or the typical character not being built around a full list of what they'd actually be capable of? Or what?

 

 

Two examples (and note that I've done nothing with Languages or TFs, or any KS on the first one):

 

The Enemy Agent

3 Acrobatics 13-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Bureaucratics 12-

3 Climbing 13-

3 Combat Driving 13-

3 Combat Piloting 13-

3 Concealment 12-

3 Contortionist 13-

3 Conversation 12-

5 Cramming

3 Fast Draw 13-

3 High Society 12-

3 Interrogation 12-

3 Lipreading 12-

3 Lockpicking 13-

3 Paramedics 12-

3 Persuasion 12-

3 Security Systems 12-

3 Seduction 12-

3 Shadowing 12-

3 Sleight Of Hand 13-

3 Stealth 13-

3 Streetwise 12-

3 Survival 12-

3 Systems Operation 12-

3 Tactics 12-

5 WF: Beam Weapons, Energy Weapons, Vehicle Weapons

3 Zero-G Ops 13-

 

Starship Repair Genius

3 AK: Cold Harbor Station 13-

3 Analyze: Technology 13-

3 Astrogation / Stellar Cartography 13-

3 Bugging 13-

3 Combat Driving 12-

3 Combat Piloting 12-

3 Computer Programming 13-

5 Cramming

3 Cryptography 13-

3 CuK: Spacer 13-

3 Demolitions 13-

3 Electronics 13-

5 Fast Draw 13-

3 Inventor 13-

3 KS: Star Systems 13-

3 Lockpicking 12-

3 Mechanics 13-

3 Optronics 13-

3 Paramedics 13-

3 Scientist

2 1) SS: Dim Drive Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 2) SS: Field Systems Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 3) SS: Hull Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 4) SS: Life Support Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 5) SS: Power Systems Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 6) SS: Sublight Drive Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 7) SS: Weapons Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

3 Security Systems 13-

3 Shadowing 13-

3 Sleight Of Hand 12-

3 Stealth 12-

3 Streetwise 12-

3 Systems Operation 13-

3 Tactics 13-

6 WF: Beam Weapons, Energy Weapons, Blades, Vehicle Weapons

3 Weaponsmith 13-

3 Zero-G Ops 12-

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

Hmmm....

 

There's a lot of room here, what with the idea of "how to interpret" what's right for each type of character.

 

I tend to have the same issues you do with Heroic level games: unusually long lists of skills.

 

I suppose it's possible to look at it this way:

 

This is an idealized list of an _exemplary_ character of this type: super-duper agent ala James Bond; a technician with Fonzie-level skills: smack it right here and it's all fixed.

 

From this list, you can pull shorter lists that "typical" agents might have. No one starts at the top, obviously, and somewhere along the way, everyone is going to "specialize" according to their aptitude and experience. You might find a Super Agent with no "combat pilot" or "Conversation" skills, yet with superior concealment or weapon skills. That sort of thing.

 

Alternatively, you might allow the purchase of a custom Perk of sorts:

 

a base 8- or 11- for a pregenerated "skill field" appropriate to the character's career. Think of it as an "Everyspy" or "Everytech" list. Every spy might have extensive training in handling an automobile in adverse conditions. This does not mean that it automatically translates to "combat driving" skill; it simply means that he's a better driver under adverse conditions.

 

As an example, police are given extensive training in high-speed and pursuit conditions. They are taught how to pick a line in a curve and how to pit and how to avoid being pitted.

 

But this really isn't combat driving. It's more like racing, which is plain old driving taken to an extreme. Everyone who can drive can drive at 100 miles an hour. The police have been trained on how to remain calm while doing it. I expect that everyone or nearly everyone understands how to pit someone; the police have had practice at it.

 

You see what I'm trying to say?

 

Pull a relevant list of skills and give them a base level in those skills that is either at or just below actually buying the skill with no bonuses to the roll and call it a base package.

 

Or pull from your campaign's everyman list and assign an overall +1 or +2 bonus to a set of appropriate everyman skills.

 

Just be sure to differentiate in play that skills at this level are slightly inferior to actually spending the points to buy the specific skill.

 

I don't know if that helps you or not, but it has provided for a great deal of variety on the character sheets in my Sci-Fi game that wasn't there in the years before I opted to do such a thing. Before, it seemed that there was a standard "Sci-Fi at Duke's table" package!

 

Today, there's a considerable amount of variety, and folks are able to start with characters who are very competent in more than one area, and even exceptional in one or two. It's been a big boost for us all the way around.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

Well, looking at your Skill lists, I tend to agree with Duke Bushido that your characters are extraordinary exemplars of their type. For example, you Enemy Agent is a James Bond-class omni-competent operative, able to function in almost any environment. Consider another recent pop-culture superspy, the film version of Jason Bourne. He's an assassin, one of the best-trained in the world; but there's no evidence in the films that he's especially good at mixing with other people and shmoozing for information. He's never been shown using the equivalent of Conversation, Persuasion, High Society, or Seduction, although he found himself in occasions when those would have been handy. OTOH for an agent who is trained in those interpersonal techniques, how often can they expect to be on missions where they need highly physical Skills like Acrobatics, Breakfall, or Combat Piloting?

 

As for your "Starship Repair Genius," you've already defined him as a Genius, so he pretty much has to be exceptional. You've given him several very specialized but related Sciences; you could save points by making them one more general "Starship Engineering" Science, but with a higher Skill Roll to offset dealing with specific systems. I also have to question the necessity of a master engineer (as a class) learning Fast Draw, Shadowing, Stealth, and Tactics.

[Kristopher]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

There's a specific reason that the latter character has some "out-of-place" skills.

 

I guess the question is more about "design theory".

 

I look at how HERO tends to write up "normal" people, then look at the list of skills that people I know would have, and the points don't work out. It seems to me that HERO's skill setup is almost based on the assumption that someone could take PS: Whatever-They-Do-For-A-Living, and that would cover everything involved in whatever that character's job is... and I rather dislike that approach.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

I can understand that. I'm merely offering a different way of looking at it. For example, I'm sure you know other people that do whatever it is you do-- most of us work with some one, after all. And these people don't have identical skill levels, or even skills. Some of these skills-- the ones that they _are_ particularly good at-- would be "bought skills." The others would either be everyman skills related to the field: everyteacher; everylineman; everynuclearsafetytechnician. That sort of thing.

 

In this way, the points can be brought more closely in line: everyman skills are free of charge to a campaign. A set of "every person in this career" skills can be handled at a base level (8-, or whatever you feel is appropriate) under the heading of "professional skill" or included in the price. Perhaps "chose five from this list of career skills, and those are your 12- skills; the others are 8- until bought as skills" or something like that.

 

Sorry-- I'm thinking very particularly of someone I used to work with who had been on his job for seven years, and the only part of it he understood involved the time clock.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

I don't consider anybody called "agent" as being a Normal anyway. Normal is for your Stop 'n' Rob clerks or your security guards that greet you in the lobby. Anything that involves a specialized set of skills or an advanced degree and you're way beyond Normal.

 

I also agree with Kristopher that the way HERO makes assumptions about Normals is a little out of whack. I look at what different stats mean in "real world" terms and I have to wonder if most Normals should start at a baseline of 10. 5 or 8 seems more in line with the average person you meet on the street. Those point shavings can then be put into rounding out a decent skill package for most people.

 

Of course, I think if you ask 10 HERO gamers you are going to get 14 different answers as to what Normal characters are anyway.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

IMO Everyman Skills would indeed go a long way toward filling in the range of abilities that the average person on the street possesses.

 

Also, since Fourth Edition the NPC examples have specified that most healthy "normal" adults have their Primary Characteristics at around 8. 10 is the baseline for PCs because they're supposed to be the heroes of their stories, and therefore exceptional by definition.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

There's a specific reason that the latter character has some "out-of-place" skills.

 

I assumed that, but for purposes of a discussion about what a typical person "should be" capable of, using him as an example is potentially misleading.

 

I guess the question is more about "design theory".

 

I look at how HERO tends to write up "normal" people, then look at the list of skills that people I know would have, and the points don't work out. It seems to me that HERO's skill setup is almost based on the assumption that someone could take PS: Whatever-They-Do-For-A-Living, and that would cover everything involved in whatever that character's job is... and I rather dislike that approach.

 

You certainly have a right to dislike that approach, but as we've heard repeatedly from the rulebooks and the designers here on the forums, the games they publish are intended to simulate adventure fiction. As a meta-genre adventure fiction rarely focuses on the details of how people conduct their mundane lives and occupations, so IMO it's a valid choice to simplify that part of a character's write-up. If you as the GM or as a player want to deal with those details the system can certainly handle it; however, if your characters invest points in specific things, GM and player should both agree that opportunities to use those things will come up during play.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

Perhaps there's a different way to address this.

 

Perhaps you can up the starting points for characters in your game, with the stipulation that these additional points are specifically for the purchase of skills. Granted, your "normal" or Heroic level characters will have more points than do similar published characters, but by your admission, you don't like the way the published characters address the issue anyway. Given that your characters will have considerably more purchased skills to meet the same levels of competency, a point imbalance follows.

[Markdoc]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

It's also worth running the numbers. A character with a skill at 13- will succeed at a moderately difficult task, with no preparation, no special tools and no backup, in the shortest reasonable time .... two-thirds of the time. He succeeds in routine tasks all the time (doesn't need a roll). Basically, he's a real expert.

 

In this regard, many of the skills listed above could well be FAM.s Is the Starship repair genius really an expert guide to all the ins and outs of Cold Harbor Station? Not just the bars, and machine shops, but high class restaurants, local Fences, location of police stations and datahubs, members of the ruling council, etc? Is he a highly skilled thief, expert-level driver, special-ops level combatant, in addition to being a genius-level engineer?

 

If yes, then there's a reason he has a gigantic skill list: he's an omni-competent all-round Hero. He can do almost anything, and do it at an expert level.

 

If not, then start reducing some skills to FAM.s and start cutting away others. That should solve the problem. Of course, if you don't like that approach .... then you have chosen to have really long skill lists. It's an either/or proposition.

 

cheers, Mark

[Kristopher]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

It does help me to get it out and discuss it instead of wondering in a vacuum. The views offered by others help me make sure I'm constructing the game in a way that will work.

[KA.]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

I think that what Markdoc says is quite correct.

It is fine if the character you are designing is actually supposed to be really good at everything he does.

But for more 'normal' people, a lot of their skills should be at lower levels, perhaps just familiarities.

 

For example, I work at a Car Dealership mainly with the Mechanics.

There are three Team Leaders, each of which is a Factory Certified Master Diagnostic Technician, which is the highest level of certification available.

These are smart guys and very good mechanics, pretty much the cream of the crop.

I might, realisitcally, give them PS: Auto Mechanic 13-

They have a good chance, on the fly, without extra time or extra equipment, to figure out what is wrong with a car based on a relatively small amount of information.

 

However, these guys are pretty much the best of the best, working on cars that are familiar to them.

 

Each team of mechanics is made up of guys that have various levels of factory training, and are quite good at normal maintenance and standard repairs.

 

They would probably, realistically, have something like PS: Auto Mechanic 11-

 

Now to get to the tricky parts.

 

There are a lot of things that Mechanics do that are not directly repairing cars.

 

They have to diagnose electrical problems, but they would not qualify for anything close to Electronics 13-, they might be considered to have a Familiarity with Electronics, at least the Master Technicians might, the other mechanics, just barely.

 

They have to weld and braze, or at least heat things up with a torch at times, but none of them would have something like PS:Welder, probably not even a Familiarity, more like something that is part of an "Everymechanic" skill package.

 

I read something once that said having a Skill at 13- means that you could make a living at it, and be considered extremely competent.

 

None of these guys could take a job as a Welder.

None of them could take a job as an Electrician.

 

I don't have any problem with the idea of designing a character like Doc Savage, that really is as good as any expert at everything he sets his hand to, but I would be building that sort of character on a Superheroic set of points, not as if they were more or less "normal".

 

I guess that is the point I am trying to get to.

 

There is room in a fictional universe for someone who is super competent at a whole lot of things, but that person is way above "normal".

 

KA.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

Some of the Skill choices seem, well, stretching.

 

For example; why would a trained Ships Mechanic, even a really good one, have Combat Driving? Unless there's something specific in the character's background, it's not part of the training. Or Tactics? a few classes on it, but at best it'd be a Familiarity. Sleight Of Hand, Shadowing, none of these - to me - say "Repair Genius" they say "PC Looking to be good at a lot of stuff in and out of combat." Which is fine if that was what you're going for.

 

I notice you have a series of SS there. Which is good.

 

But you didn't break down Systems Operations into major trained categories.

 

Before I would create Skill Lists for a setting I'd decide how I want specialties broken out.

 

I would imagine that training for an engineer or repairman would have all the SS. But if they get stuck on duty in a specific section - and never or rarely trade out - the unused SS probably stagnate.

 

For a generic Engineer I'd take one SS and make it full, and leave the others at Familiarity.

For an advance Engineer 2-3 of those SS are full.

For a Genius, sure maybe all 7 are full skills. Buy likely 5 are and 2 are at the 2pt level.

 

For Specialists you take a Generic or Advanced and just bump up a Full Skill or two up a few points.

 

You can break out Systems Operations by a category type: Engines, Communications, etc...

 

I will say that my Star Hero character doesn't have a short list of skills, it can be part of the genre - especially SF - to know a broad spectrum of things. So I also wouldn't worry overly much about a skill list like that.

[Curufea]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

I generally top-down do skills for NPCs - as in, when an NPC needs to us a skill, that's when I decide how competent they likely are, and write it in the character description. They rarely (okay, never) get a character sheet.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

hi there...

 

A recent survey was done on the science fiction / fandom conventions this summer. It was found that the amount of overweight and underweight people to attending are TEN TIMES that of the average population. Why is this? They just getting fat / waisting away watching and reading fiction?

 

How is this relevant to the thread topic? You may want to start a discussion in the NGD section about this, including links to your source.

[Clonus]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

Most people design NPCs around the specific role they are intended to play. For example Honey Trapp the enemy agent probably won't have Tactics, or Bureaucratics, or Cramming or Shadowing because none of those skills are going to be any use at all, in her assigned role of buxom babe who slinks around nightclubs, bars, parties and hotel rooms luring unsuspecting men into indiscretion with her charms. That list of attributes is pretty much everything James Bond has, but most spies, even most fictional spies are no James Bond. Even Matt Helm doesn't know how to fly a plane and isn't a contortionist.

[Ice9]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

The problem with everyman skills or familiarity-only levels is that 8- is really not good odds of success. Now sure, sometimes there are bonuses from extra time, special tools, or assistance - but that doesn't apply to all skills. Even with those, an 8- is generally insufficient, because someone competent at their job should be succeeding almost all the time when they have the ideal setup, meaning either those things are giving a 7+ bonus, or their base skill is higher than 8-.

 

And with decent Int/Dex/Pre, there's no intermediate step between 8- and 13-, so even if you only "need" an 11-, that's not going to save you any points.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

And with decent Int/Dex/Pre' date=' there's no intermediate step between 8- and 13-, so even if you only "need" an 11-, that's not going to save you any points.[/quote']

 

6e adds an intermediate step.

[Folded]

Re: Skills in Science Fiction

 

I think that this was the original intent of the PS. It represents a small group of skills and familiarities that go along with a single, fairly narrowly focused, job. PS:Auto Mechanic is not just Mechanics limited to Automobiles, it includes (as was pointed out earlier) a little torchwork, some electrician skills, some KS knowledge, etc. Breaking it out into more skill categories simply adds flavor and possibilities to more broadly based characters. NPCs are usually either there to further the plot or to fulfill a necessary function for the PCs. If all they have to do is fix the car, give them the PS and move on. And don't feel bound by the scale for such NPCs. If they need to have a 9- in that skill, write them that way.

 

I've tried more detailed skill packages for both PCs and NPCs, and it gets to be brutal. Someone with a Bachelor's in Physics needs to have about a dozen skills just to represent that. There's no reason to slave yourself to the system if it prevents you from writing the game you want to run.